Cowboys and Hippies

OG725
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6/22/2021 7:06pm
OG725 wrote:
I’ll just let this thread die now. It’s becoming painfully evident that you’ve got no idea what a Cowboy really is about. That in and of...
I’ll just let this thread die now. It’s becoming painfully evident that you’ve got no idea what a Cowboy really is about. That in and of itself answers your confusion about Hippies and Cowboys.

It’s been fun playing, but there are some folks you just can’t reach.
GabeM wrote:
I was using them as more as general/broad terms of peoples's inner leanings. I think MX is made up of a lot of both types of...
I was using them as more as general/broad terms of peoples's inner leanings. I think MX is made up of a lot of both types of folks. Not the extremes but most are non city dwellers that have leanings. I was born and raised in on the coast in Southern/mid California. There was a lot of both there. It got a little "couldn't see the forest for the trees though"
Well, I grew up dreaming of being a “Cowboy”. I remember the pride swelling in my heart the first time I was referred to as “Cowboy”. My friends don’t throw that term around loosely.

My Bull Riding Coach, 1970 PRCA World Champion Bull Rider, Gary Leffew, is from Santa Maria. He’s coached another 19 Cowboys to Gold Buckles. Yeah, when I first met him I thought, “California Dope Smoking, Crystal Rubbing Hippie”, as he’s a psycho-cybernetics devotee. While I adopted his “West Coast” style of riding, I’d leave most of his new age crap at the gate.

In 2018, I was riding 16% of my bulls, went home and thought about leaving the sport I’d dreamt about competing in since I was 10. Gave his positive thinking and meditation stuff a shot for 3 months. Went back out and rode 60% to the whistle.

If you’re so intent on naming music “Cowboys”, you did good with LeDoux,, but here’s another “Real Deal”:

https://youtu.be/dNibWP8f5PQ

Sorry, I’ve got the right to remain silent but not the ability.
GabeM
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No-one ever said cowboys weren't hard learning stubborn sons of a guns that's for sure. Whatever Willie is everyone seems to like him



OG725
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6/22/2021 9:21pm
GabeM wrote:
No-one ever said cowboys weren't hard learning stubborn sons of a guns that's for sure. Whatever Willie is everyone seems to like him



I compete in a sport that 99% of Cowboys shake their head and just say “No”. Irregardless of my age.

Hard learning? I’d say more set in our ways. Stubborn? Absolutely true. Cowboys have a very strong moral compass of what’s right and what’s wrong. We don’t bend to whatever direction the wind is currently blowing.

Take care of animals, be kind to women and children. No lying, cheating, or stealing. We give respect, but also demand respect in return.

You won’t find a more loyal friend, or as fierce an enemy.

There’s no such thing as white Cowboys, black Cowboys, Mexican Cowboys, or anything else, we’re just Cowboys. Ty Murray always says, “the bull can’t read your buckle”. Well, he also can’t tell the color of your skin. We are all equally worthless to the Bull (unless you’ve got a hand full of range cubes). It’s a different United States behind those bucking chutes.
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OG725
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P.S. We stand for the Flag and kneel at the cross. I’d like to see somebody try to take a knee while the National Anthem is playing at a rodeo.

Mother of all ass kickings!
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The Shop

OG725
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6/22/2021 10:25pm
Thank you. I haven’t had the desire to have a written discussion in a long time. Kind of made me feel like the old, “Mutt” today.
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 5:45am
Today is Kris Kristofferson's 85th birthday. I bring these guys up (especially Willie) because I believe they serve as a bridge between both worlds. Cowboys and Hippies alike could learn from them, how they view the world and especially how they view other people.

For Mutt's sake I won't call Kris a cowboy, but the dude is as bad ass by any standard, and most important of all he can teach you how "to beat the Devil"





GabeM
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Kris's Resume:

*born in Brownsville, Texas,

*Gold Gloves boxer

*Kristofferson attended Pomona College and experienced his first dose of fame in 1958 when he appeared in Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" on March 31 for his achievements in collegiate rugby union, American football,

*graduated in 1958 from Pomona College with a Bachelor of Arts degree, summa cum laude, in literature

*earned a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford University, where he studied at Merton College

*In 1960, Kristofferson graduated with a B.Phil. degree in English literature

*Joined the U.S. Army, was commissioned as a second lieutenant and attained the rank of captain. He became a helicopter pilot

*He also completed Ranger School.

*when his tour in Germany ended, Kristofferson was given an assignment to teach English literature at West Point.

*Instead, he decided to leave the Army and pursue songwriting. His family disowned him because of his career decision and sources are unclear on whether they reconciled.

*wrote "Me and Bobby McGee


Sometimes folks who would otherwise be cowboys are just too smart to do it, So we will just call him a Pilgrim







APLMAN99
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6/23/2021 6:39am
The way that Kristofferson shut up that stuffed shirt Toby Keith makes him pretty phucking cool no matter what you want to call him........
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 6:45am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The way that Kristofferson shut up that stuffed shirt Toby Keith makes him pretty phucking cool no matter what you want to call him........
That is Fake news, written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone
OG725
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6/23/2021 6:46am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The way that Kristofferson shut up that stuffed shirt Toby Keith makes him pretty phucking cool no matter what you want to call him........
Yes Sir. Kris earned his opinion, unlike that saber rattling douchebag, Toby Keith.
APLMAN99
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6/23/2021 6:56am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The way that Kristofferson shut up that stuffed shirt Toby Keith makes him pretty phucking cool no matter what you want to call him........
GabeM wrote:
That is Fake news, written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone
Who was there, and Kristofferson's wife shared the same story. Kris himself took a very high road, which made him even more impressive as a man.
GabeM
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6/23/2021 7:24am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The way that Kristofferson shut up that stuffed shirt Toby Keith makes him pretty phucking cool no matter what you want to call him........
GabeM wrote:
That is Fake news, written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone
APLMAN99 wrote:
Who was there, and Kristofferson's wife shared the same story. Kris himself took a very high road, which made him even more impressive as a man.
I am sure something occurred but if you trust the accuracy a story written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone then you would believe anything MSM tells you


Good pivot point though, The vast majority of conservatives I know feel like they were completely duped during that time. That is how the game works.

Just as the boomer children were under a deliberate campaign to make them fearful and turn on Americas in the 60's

In the 80's it was the exact opposite. The patriotic push by the Media the 80's created a generation of young patriotic men who would be willing to go and fight for freedom and defend the good ol USofA if ever attacked.

Create the sentiment and then exploit it

The bad guys control all of politics, media, education and every other institution. Most conservatives whether they will admit they were duped or not figured this out. What Jeb was overwhelmingly rejected despite over $300 million invested by the establishment

Why does the left consider Bush/Cheney and every other NeoCon to be allies of theirs now? because they work for the same people and have they same goals, that is why

On the other hand, most folks would get along just fine with their other leaning neighbors if they would be willing to admit we have all been manipulated for generations and deal with people more on an individual basis rather than the false dichotomy they force most into
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6/23/2021 8:24am
GabeM wrote:
I am sure something occurred but if you trust the accuracy a story written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone then you would believe anything MSM...
I am sure something occurred but if you trust the accuracy a story written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone then you would believe anything MSM tells you


Good pivot point though, The vast majority of conservatives I know feel like they were completely duped during that time. That is how the game works.

Just as the boomer children were under a deliberate campaign to make them fearful and turn on Americas in the 60's

In the 80's it was the exact opposite. The patriotic push by the Media the 80's created a generation of young patriotic men who would be willing to go and fight for freedom and defend the good ol USofA if ever attacked.

Create the sentiment and then exploit it

The bad guys control all of politics, media, education and every other institution. Most conservatives whether they will admit they were duped or not figured this out. What Jeb was overwhelmingly rejected despite over $300 million invested by the establishment

Why does the left consider Bush/Cheney and every other NeoCon to be allies of theirs now? because they work for the same people and have they same goals, that is why

On the other hand, most folks would get along just fine with their other leaning neighbors if they would be willing to admit we have all been manipulated for generations and deal with people more on an individual basis rather than the false dichotomy they force most into
Great post. But for the last sentence.

Dealing with people on an individual basis is the opppsite of identity politics. You stop practicing identity politics and you stop being a hippy in that particular regard.

Does every hippy “leaning” person practice identity politics? Of course not. But it always leads that way as the hippy movement gains momentum. It’s inevitable as proven EVERY time the toothpaste got out of the tube.

What you’re wishing for would be awesome if it could be possible. But I’ve come to the conclusion that it cant and have yet to hear an argument to prove otherwise. And that’s despite listening to a LOT of Jordan Peterson & Weinstein brothers (whom I respect the hell out of) romanticize what you wish for. But I never hear them disect the practicality of it, or lack thereof. I suspect their inexperience in sports limits their perspective on what they propose in action. Sports are so great for distilling the argument, because after all, life is one big competition for survival.
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 8:46am
GabeM wrote:
I am sure something occurred but if you trust the accuracy a story written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone then you would believe anything MSM...
I am sure something occurred but if you trust the accuracy a story written by Ethan Hawke in Rolling Stone then you would believe anything MSM tells you


Good pivot point though, The vast majority of conservatives I know feel like they were completely duped during that time. That is how the game works.

Just as the boomer children were under a deliberate campaign to make them fearful and turn on Americas in the 60's

In the 80's it was the exact opposite. The patriotic push by the Media the 80's created a generation of young patriotic men who would be willing to go and fight for freedom and defend the good ol USofA if ever attacked.

Create the sentiment and then exploit it

The bad guys control all of politics, media, education and every other institution. Most conservatives whether they will admit they were duped or not figured this out. What Jeb was overwhelmingly rejected despite over $300 million invested by the establishment

Why does the left consider Bush/Cheney and every other NeoCon to be allies of theirs now? because they work for the same people and have they same goals, that is why

On the other hand, most folks would get along just fine with their other leaning neighbors if they would be willing to admit we have all been manipulated for generations and deal with people more on an individual basis rather than the false dichotomy they force most into
Great post. But for the last sentence. Dealing with people on an individual basis is the opppsite of identity politics. You stop practicing identity politics and...
Great post. But for the last sentence.

Dealing with people on an individual basis is the opppsite of identity politics. You stop practicing identity politics and you stop being a hippy in that particular regard.

Does every hippy “leaning” person practice identity politics? Of course not. But it always leads that way as the hippy movement gains momentum. It’s inevitable as proven EVERY time the toothpaste got out of the tube.

What you’re wishing for would be awesome if it could be possible. But I’ve come to the conclusion that it cant and have yet to hear an argument to prove otherwise. And that’s despite listening to a LOT of Jordan Peterson & Weinstein brothers (whom I respect the hell out of) romanticize what you wish for. But I never hear them disect the practicality of it, or lack thereof. I suspect their inexperience in sports limits their perspective on what they propose in action. Sports are so great for distilling the argument, because after all, life is one big competition for survival.
I definitely Romanticize things, won't argue with you there it seems to be my calling in life, and in my DNA. America in and of itself is a Romanticized concept all together derived primarily from those who were persecuted and/or oppressed by old world power structures. So the Romantics came up with an idea and sold it to the British Colonial merchant class.

Just as you rightfully push back on my rosey glasses, as not painting a realistic picture of the consequences of such lifestyle. I also know many who have grown up under a similar but conservative approaches who have flipped sides and rail against it just the same way. That is natural if we experienced a forced ideology on ourselves right or left, the natural approach is to buy in and and reenforce it or completely go opposite, rarely does extremism breed non extremism,

I wonder how many of the Hippies you were around grew up under opposite ideological pressures
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 8:49am
OG725 wrote:
P.S. We stand for the Flag and kneel at the cross. I’d like to see somebody try to take a knee while the National Anthem is...
P.S. We stand for the Flag and kneel at the cross. I’d like to see somebody try to take a knee while the National Anthem is playing at a rodeo.

Mother of all ass kickings!
But wasn't the good Lord kind of like a hippy, who would neither kneel during the anthem nor kick someones ass who did?


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OG725
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6/23/2021 9:28am
OG725 wrote:
P.S. We stand for the Flag and kneel at the cross. I’d like to see somebody try to take a knee while the National Anthem is...
P.S. We stand for the Flag and kneel at the cross. I’d like to see somebody try to take a knee while the National Anthem is playing at a rodeo.

Mother of all ass kickings!
GabeM wrote:
But wasn't the good Lord kind of like a hippy, who would neither kneel during the anthem nor kick someones ass who did?


Obviously you’re not a Bible reader, flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip ain’t out of the question.
GabeM
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6/23/2021 9:51am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 9:51am
OG725 wrote:
Obviously you’re not a Bible reader, flipping over tables and chasing people with a whip ain’t out of the question.
Obviously? Trust me, I've read it a time or two. But this ain't a religious thread, this is a Hippy and Cowboy thread with some good country music thrown in.

But Kris gives some insight in that song that should speak to us today

Jesus was a Capricorn
He ate organic food
He believed in love and peace
And never wore no shoes
Long hair, beard and sandals
And a funky bunch of friends
Reckon may just nail Him up
If He come down again
'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
Prove they can be better than at any time they please
Someone doin' somethin' dirty, decent folks can frown on
You can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me
OG725
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6/23/2021 10:10am
Last time he was a lamb, he’ll return as a LION.
6/23/2021 10:50am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 10:58am
GabeM wrote:
I definitely Romanticize things, won't argue with you there it seems to be my calling in life, and in my DNA. America in and of itself...
I definitely Romanticize things, won't argue with you there it seems to be my calling in life, and in my DNA. America in and of itself is a Romanticized concept all together derived primarily from those who were persecuted and/or oppressed by old world power structures. So the Romantics came up with an idea and sold it to the British Colonial merchant class.

Just as you rightfully push back on my rosey glasses, as not painting a realistic picture of the consequences of such lifestyle. I also know many who have grown up under a similar but conservative approaches who have flipped sides and rail against it just the same way. That is natural if we experienced a forced ideology on ourselves right or left, the natural approach is to buy in and and reenforce it or completely go opposite, rarely does extremism breed non extremism,

I wonder how many of the Hippies you were around grew up under opposite ideological pressures
Most of them. Most came from 50’s conservatism. Mad at their parents. Looking to reject their upbringing instead of improving it.

So instead of improving on the mistakes of their parents, they chose new religions altogether. That was their mistake.

They never turned away their parents trust funds tho. The most vocal hippies all came from money. They were the ultimate “ hippycrites” as I called them. A term I coined at about 15 yrs old as I started to see thru all their bullshit.

Did they have some valid arguments against their “cowboy” parents? Sure did. But here’s where they got it wrong... preaching ideology & executing it are two very different things. Their parents failed in areas of execution. The ideology wasnt flawed. But instead the hippies threw the baby out with the bath water.

Example: I had really good basketball coaches as a kid. They were my father figures. They taught me the values of cowboy ideology. They were strictly orthadox. But I too resented them. I was mad because despite being the 2nd or 3rd kid always picked in a game of pickup ball amongst my teammates, I never played in league games. Why? Coach was waiting for a growth spurt that never came. That coach was my best friend’s dad. I lived at their house. I watched so much game film with him as a child it’s insane. I lived to win iver his approval that never came - to this day. I resented him for decades.

In high school I had another really good coach. 150 freshman boys tried out for the freshman team. It took 3 days. I made it to the final 25 kids on day 3. They pulled us all in one by one to tell us our fate. I was told that I was easily the 7th best player out of the whole bunch. But too short and skinny to be worth developing. I was crushed.

But i wasnt mad at basketball. I never resented cowboy ideology simply because i disagreed with my coach’s execution of it. Sometimes you’re running the right play, you just miss the basket.

I vowed to coach one day and I did. And I took with me 95% of what I was ever taught. I was 95% of the coaches I resented instead of trying to rewrite the playbook. I took everything they did well and doubled down on it. And tried fixing where I felt they failed.

In 10-20 yrs there will be another young man that tries to be 95% of me one day.

That’s how society improves. Build on our successes and fix our failures.

But that’s not the hippy way. They go for wholesale changes to the system. A system that might’ve been 95% perfect already.

It’s been 40 years. I’ve seen the hippy’s unimpeded reign. It was a massive failure. They often came from affluent families that clearly got more right than wrong - yet the hippies rejected everything and opted for marxism. Epic fail.
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 10:58am
OG725 wrote:
Last time he was a lamb, he’ll return as a LION.
Last time he was hippy, he will return as a COWBOY
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6/23/2021 10:59am
We call them trustafarians now jabroni.
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6/23/2021 11:04am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 11:05am
Furthermore, pressure doesnt cause resentment.

Poor leadership or abuse of power does.

So for that i will not excuse the hippies for their resentmebt of all things cowboy. I blame them for not trying to do it better.

Cowboy ideology has been pretty fucking successful the last few thousand years worldwide.

Hippy culture? Abject failure in every iteration from sports to business to family to government.
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6/23/2021 11:27am
Why does hippy culture fail?

Because by rule it denands that the system is adjusted to account for the individual’s failures. Problems are solved externally.

Well, how many times can you adjust the system to cater to each person’s idiosyncratic shortcomings? You keep doing it in just a small tribe and it’s like wack a mole let alone a whole large scale society. There is no system that can be adapted 6 billion different ways.

There’s only one system. Our universe/reality. That’s why cowboy ideology always prevails. It demands the individual adapts to reality in order to overcome. This is realistic. And brutally punishing if not adhered too.

We’re never gonna change reality. We can always change ourselves.
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6/23/2021 2:04pm
If your going to try to make a connection between music and cowboys post a picture of a musician that's actually a cowboy [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/06/22/498955/s1200_newFile_2.jpg[/img]
If your going to try to make a connection between music and cowboys post a picture of a musician that's actually a cowboy


Blue Yodel number 9Woohoo
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 3:49pm
Why does hippy culture fail? Because by rule it denands that the system is adjusted to account for the individual’s failures. Problems are solved externally. Well...
Why does hippy culture fail?

Because by rule it denands that the system is adjusted to account for the individual’s failures. Problems are solved externally.

Well, how many times can you adjust the system to cater to each person’s idiosyncratic shortcomings? You keep doing it in just a small tribe and it’s like wack a mole let alone a whole large scale society. There is no system that can be adapted 6 billion different ways.

There’s only one system. Our universe/reality. That’s why cowboy ideology always prevails. It demands the individual adapts to reality in order to overcome. This is realistic. And brutally punishing if not adhered too.

We’re never gonna change reality. We can always change ourselves.
One thing no one should do in life life, is rely on or be dependent on a hippy for much of anything. Responsibility and competence ain't their thing. They do provide value in life to others if they better understand their roles. In my experience the good ones are so gullible that they inevitably get taken control of by bad ones., generally those are the revolutionary Marxists. Very similar to how fundamentalist religion goes, because as you said, it is a different religion, and often cultish. Usually it is one person and their enablers that corrupts the many who would otherwise be decent folks


One thing that will need to happen if we are to have any sort of coming together is hippies are going to have to reject Marxism entirely. Anyone who hangs on to it, even a tiny bit is antithetical to what any decent American should tolerate.

Jabroni, your experience is so unique, most hippies regular folks run into are at the local farmers market and the vast majority of them are much more grounded in reality than a Trustafarian. Most them would be screwed up any which way they went because idle hands are the devils workshop.
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6/23/2021 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 6:12pm
GabeM wrote:
One thing no one should do in life life, is rely on or be dependent on a hippy for much of anything. Responsibility and competence ain't...
One thing no one should do in life life, is rely on or be dependent on a hippy for much of anything. Responsibility and competence ain't their thing. They do provide value in life to others if they better understand their roles. In my experience the good ones are so gullible that they inevitably get taken control of by bad ones., generally those are the revolutionary Marxists. Very similar to how fundamentalist religion goes, because as you said, it is a different religion, and often cultish. Usually it is one person and their enablers that corrupts the many who would otherwise be decent folks


One thing that will need to happen if we are to have any sort of coming together is hippies are going to have to reject Marxism entirely. Anyone who hangs on to it, even a tiny bit is antithetical to what any decent American should tolerate.

Jabroni, your experience is so unique, most hippies regular folks run into are at the local farmers market and the vast majority of them are much more grounded in reality than a Trustafarian. Most them would be screwed up any which way they went because idle hands are the devils workshop.
Let me say, thanks for sparring with me on this topic. It’s been fun and you’re a good dude to argue with.

Yes my situation was unique. But not an outlier in that it should be dismissed. But rather a purely distilled answer to your original question.

You nailed it on the head - hippies would be harmless if they knew their role. After all, they’re the better artists and art makes life better. Here’s the flaw in your wishful thinking...

Hippies need to know their role is NOT leaderships positions. They are natural betas that can be of great assistance in that role - but a disaster at the next tier (peter principle).

And here’s the rub on why they cannot denounce marxism... power is the only currency the hippy mindset recognizes. They reject merit on the basis of their default emotion which is ENVY.

And I dont know how you can fix that.
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GabeM
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6/23/2021 6:59pm
GabeM wrote:
One thing no one should do in life life, is rely on or be dependent on a hippy for much of anything. Responsibility and competence ain't...
One thing no one should do in life life, is rely on or be dependent on a hippy for much of anything. Responsibility and competence ain't their thing. They do provide value in life to others if they better understand their roles. In my experience the good ones are so gullible that they inevitably get taken control of by bad ones., generally those are the revolutionary Marxists. Very similar to how fundamentalist religion goes, because as you said, it is a different religion, and often cultish. Usually it is one person and their enablers that corrupts the many who would otherwise be decent folks


One thing that will need to happen if we are to have any sort of coming together is hippies are going to have to reject Marxism entirely. Anyone who hangs on to it, even a tiny bit is antithetical to what any decent American should tolerate.

Jabroni, your experience is so unique, most hippies regular folks run into are at the local farmers market and the vast majority of them are much more grounded in reality than a Trustafarian. Most them would be screwed up any which way they went because idle hands are the devils workshop.
Let me say, thanks for sparring with me on this topic. It’s been fun and you’re a good dude to argue with. Yes my situation was...
Let me say, thanks for sparring with me on this topic. It’s been fun and you’re a good dude to argue with.

Yes my situation was unique. But not an outlier in that it should be dismissed. But rather a purely distilled answer to your original question.

You nailed it on the head - hippies would be harmless if they knew their role. After all, they’re the better artists and art makes life better. Here’s the flaw in your wishful thinking...

Hippies need to know their role is NOT leaderships positions. They are natural betas that can be of great assistance in that role - but a disaster at the next tier (peter principle).

And here’s the rub on why they cannot denounce marxism... power is the only currency the hippy mindset recognizes. They reject merit on the basis of their default emotion which is ENVY.

And I dont know how you can fix that.
Not dismissing it at all, you've been to the end of that road and seen what it looks like. You would have way better insight into the mindset as anyone possibly could. I just think there is hope for them to turn things around, most of them anyway, just as I do for every one else.

6/23/2021 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 7:32pm
GabeM wrote:
Not dismissing it at all, you've been to the end of that road and seen what it looks like. You would have way better insight into...
Not dismissing it at all, you've been to the end of that road and seen what it looks like. You would have way better insight into the mindset as anyone possibly could. I just think there is hope for them to turn things around, most of them anyway, just as I do for every one else.

Where do you get this hope from?

As in, how do you suggest this “envy” issue is resolved? And can it be resolved if it’s their biological personality type default?

The fact they inherently hang everything on power & control means they will naturally struggle with being what they see as second class if they’re not sharing the leadership burden. I’ve thought many hours on how to reconcile this. I cant. And people way more educated on this than us havent come up with any solution either. The best Jordan Peterson can muster is idealized fantasy, but no tangible or practical course. I’ve listened to easily over 30 hours of his lectures on this stuff and it’s where he appears to reach his intellectual bandwidth limits, which is fucking saying something about how difficult a conundrum this is.

Side note: the cowboy default emotion when experiencing failure is DISGUST. Totally different than envy. Just another way in which the mindsets are opposites.
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6/23/2021 7:40pm
Holy stereotypes and broad assumptions about what other people think haha

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