Cash for Clunkers.....WTF?

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9/17/2009 6:53 AM

I thought the program that all us taxpayers were paying for was designed to get old cars off the road and help the carmakers (didn't us taxpayers just bail some of them out as well?)in the process? Wouldn't that mean getting rid of (as in disposing of) the carcasses and not allowing salvage yards to purchase them and having 180 days to part them out before destroying what is left? Well run salvage yards will have very little left intact in that time frame. Hell, at this point the government is promoting keeping the same clunkers on the road for years to come. And I can't see that helping out any of the mfgs.

Discuss........

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9/17/2009 7:41 AM

Here's a question...how much did CFC cost to operate with administration costs?

Clerical, processing etc...

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9/17/2009 7:48 AM

So you're are saying the salvage yards should go out of business? There are still a lot of old cars on the road and those people don't have the coin to shell out for a new car, they will need those used parts, right?

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HOLY SCHNITZENGRUBEN! WE WON THE SUPER BOWL!

9/17/2009 3:21 PM

They dont get to part them from what I understand.

They put 3-4 quarts of what is basically sandy saltwater into the engine after draining the oil and run her till she blows. Then off to the crusher.

There is other stuff, but I dont remember.

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9/17/2009 3:24 PM

CFC is one of the only programs I have really felt has done good lately.

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flarider wrote: I don't know shit
and I am damn glad for that

9/17/2009 3:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

The law required in the CARS program to kill the engine as shown below










VIN numbers were required to be submitted as part of the program and the vehicle was required to be scrapped




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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 3:43 PM

http://www.cars.gov/faq

What happens to the vehicle I trade in?

The CARS Act requires that the trade-in vehicle be crushed or shredded so that it will not be resold for use in the United States or elsewhere as an automobile. The entity crushing or shredding the vehicles in this manner will be allowed to sell some parts of the vehicle prior to crushing or shredding it, but these parts cannot include the engine or the drive train.

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 3:52 PM

flarider wrote:

The law required in the CARS program to kill the engine as shown below










VIN numbers were required to be submitted as part of the program and the vehicle was required to be scrapped




All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.

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9/17/2009 3:53 PM

Having just been to the junk yard last weekend in California.. You can buy parts off the CARS they have. You just cannot buy internal engine parts... They paint the engines blue, so anything with blue paint on it isn't for sale. Windows, seats, tires, air conditioning compressors, all the external engine stuff is for sale...

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9/17/2009 3:55 PM

Tiki wrote:

All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.

just stop with common sense … it’s more important that on the surface you appear to be doing a good thing … and you’re just cruel to look beyond the facade

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9/17/2009 4:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

Tiki wrote:

All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.




(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine)


Tiki, in the second part I agree with you.

In regards to hybrids, no one has ever addressed the lifespan of these batteries, cost to replace these batteries and the disposal procedure (and cost) of these batteries. What if the hybrid is in an accident? Do the batteries need to be dug out of the clump of metal before crushing and/or recycling? What if you can't get the battery cell out? What happens to all of these battery cells over the next few or dozen years? How are they disposed of? In an accident, does the battery cell leak? What does it leak? Is it corrosive? Does it harm the roadway or environment? What if a hybrid crashes into a body of water? Does it destry the marine life?
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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 4:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

I don’t care for the program .. but that said

If the purpose of this was to stimulate the US economy

why wasn’t there a domestic content provision .. for qualifying car ?

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9/17/2009 4:16 PM

So how much did it cost?

And how much did it make?

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9/17/2009 4:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

Foreign car companies make cars in the US and employ thousands of US Citizens

One of my best friends works for JM Family, a company of 4000+ employees that imports and distributes Toyota's in the SE US....and there are more companies like them nationwide. Then you have all those foreign car dealers in cities across the US, large and small, that employ and support their local economies and charities....then you have all the transporters who get the cars to the dealers and so on and so on and so on


Kalish, the Program allotted $3B to the program. US dealers sold almost 700,000 new cars so lets guess an average sale price of $25K per car would equal $17,500,000,000 in sales and The U.S. Transportation Department says the program also created or saved about 42,000 jobs in the United States.

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 4:44 PM

flarider wrote:

Foreign car companies make cars in the US and employ thousands of US Citizens

One of my best friends works for JM Family, a company of 4000+ employees that imports and distributes Toyota's in the SE US....and there are more companies like them nationwide. Then you have all those foreign car dealers in cities across the US, large and small, that employ and support their local economies and charities....then you have all the transporters who get the cars to the dealers and so on and so on and so on


Kalish, the Program allotted $3B to the program. US dealers sold almost 700,000 new cars so lets guess an average sale price of $25K per car would equal $17,500,000,000 in sales and The U.S. Transportation Department says the program also created or saved about 42,000 jobs in the United States.

but why wasn’t there a domestic content provision .. for qualifying cars ?

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9/17/2009 4:50 PM

Why did there have to be?
Foreign car companies contribute to our economy and hire American workers

Even MX/SX racing

[LINK TO IMAGE]

Why do you want to disqualify or disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 5:04 PM

flarider wrote:

Foreign car companies make cars in the US and employ thousands of US Citizens

One of my best friends works for JM Family, a company of 4000+ employees that imports and distributes Toyota's in the SE US....and there are more companies like them nationwide. Then you have all those foreign car dealers in cities across the US, large and small, that employ and support their local economies and charities....then you have all the transporters who get the cars to the dealers and so on and so on and so on


Kalish, the Program allotted $3B to the program. US dealers sold almost 700,000 new cars so lets guess an average sale price of $25K per car would equal $17,500,000,000 in sales and The U.S. Transportation Department says the program also created or saved about 42,000 jobs in the United States.

FishBone wrote:

but why wasn’t there a domestic content provision .. for qualifying cars ?

Domestic under which definition?

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9/17/2009 5:13 PM

How much of the "domestic" car has to made domestically?

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 5:40 PM

So the program helped those with money who could buy new cars, and it helped the dealerships, many of which the Govt bailed out?

So it's safe to say the sky isn't falling like Obama and the liberals said it was and America is not broke.

What did C4C do for the average person? What did it do for me?

Where did these 25K dollar cars come from? Anyone I knew who took advantage of the program bought cars much less then that number.

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9/17/2009 5:42 PM

flarider wrote:

How much of the "domestic" car has to made domestically?

correct the parts ..

not the car .. not the company

imho .. it should of had a provision to rewarded domestic content


thereby maximizing the pressure/demand on parts manufactured in the us .. ie: jobs in the US regardless of which brand

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9/17/2009 5:45 PM

MX479Guy wrote:

So the program helped those with money who could buy new cars, and it helped the dealerships, many of which the Govt bailed out?

So it's safe to say the sky isn't falling like Obama and the liberals said it was and America is not broke.

What did C4C do for the average person? What did it do for me?

Where did these 25K dollar cars come from? Anyone I knew who took advantage of the program bought cars much less then that number.

Are you that narrow thinking?
All of those dealers have employees, Toyota USA has employees, the Toyota Distributors (like JM Family) have employees, the trucking transporters have employees...all these people received paychecks and their paychecks went on to pay bills or buy items at other companies or stores that have employees who then received paychecks and they paid bills and purchased items at stores where they have employees and their paychecks went on to pay bills or buy items at other companies or stores that have employees who then received paychecks and they paid bills and purchased items at stores where they have employees and their paychecks went on to pay bills or buy items at other companies or stores that have employees who then received paychecks and they paid bills and purchased items at stores where they have employees and their paychecks went on to pay bills or buy items at other companies or stores that have employees who then received paychecks and they paid bills and purchased items at stores where they have employees


want me to keep going or do you get the picture?

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 5:47 PM

FishBone wrote:

correct the parts ..

not the car .. not the company

imho .. it should of had a provision to rewarded domestic content


thereby maximizing the pressure/demand on parts manufactured in the us .. ie: jobs in the US regardless of which brand


Why do you want to disqualify or disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?
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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 6:13 PM

flarider wrote:

How much of the "domestic" car has to made domestically?

FishBone wrote:

correct the parts ..

not the car .. not the company

imho .. it should of had a provision to rewarded domestic content


thereby maximizing the pressure/demand on parts manufactured in the us .. ie: jobs in the US regardless of which brand

flarider wrote:
Why do you want to disqualify or disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?

how so ?

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9/17/2009 6:19 PM

If a vehicle has to have parts from the USA completely, no one could've bought GM, Ford or Chrysler, either.

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9/17/2009 6:28 PM

FishBone wrote:

correct the parts ..

not the car .. not the company

imho .. it should of had a provision to rewarded domestic content


thereby maximizing the pressure/demand on parts manufactured in the us .. ie: jobs in the US regardless of which brand

flarider wrote:
Why do you want to disqualify or disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?

FishBone wrote:

how so ?

Tens of thousands of workers in the USA work for Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Kia, Scion and other brands, but you want to disadvantage or disqualify their opportunity to earn a paycheck under the CARS program

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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 6:28 PM

Bummer to see them do that to an Aurora! Beautiful cars.

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9/17/2009 6:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

Nerd wrote:

If a vehicle has to have parts from the USA completely, no one could've bought GM, Ford or Chrysler, either.

That’s fine … I did NOT say it had to be ALL domestic parts .. or even a domestic car ..

A domestic content provision could have been setup to reward autos with a higher percentage of domestic parts

simple hypothetical (numbers / bracket points for illustrative purposes only)

below 35% = 0 dollars
35% to 65% = x
65% to 75% = y
75% to 85% = z
85% and above = max

After all the goal of the CFC was to stimulate the US economy .. correct ?

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9/17/2009 6:30 PM

flarider wrote:
Why do you want to disqualify or disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?

FishBone wrote:

how so ?

flarider wrote:

Tens of thousands of workers in the USA work for Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Kia, Scion and other brands, but you want to disadvantage or disqualify their opportunity to earn a paycheck under the CARS program

your missing it ... I did NOT say it had to be ALL domestic parts .. or even a domestic car

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9/17/2009 6:31 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 2:13 AM

and I used the word "disadvantage" as well as "disqualify"



Why do you want to disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?




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This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR



[LINK TO IMAGE]
"Grant money is not pork" - Rep Allen West

9/17/2009 6:32 PM

flarider wrote:

and I used the word "disadvantage" as well as "disqualify"



Why do you want to disadvantage tens of thousands of American workers?




it would not

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