Calif. considering ban on sale of internal combustion engine?

akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 10:05am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 10:17am
Titan1 wrote:
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is...
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is ran efficiently...and America will follow its lead All the way down the toilet.

If someone out there is doing it better then by all means lead the way because as it stands now, more of my tax money goes back to helping other states than of theirs coming to help me.

Edit: I'm not saying this to combative at all. Honestly, if there is a better method I am all ears.
freeh
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9/29/2017 11:27am
No one said you were nothing, I just pointed out that while Californians might have "[i]crazy idea's about the insane rate of storms, fires, hurricanes, tornados...
No one said you were nothing, I just pointed out that while Californians might have "crazy idea's about the insane rate of storms, fires, hurricanes, tornados, heatwaves, snow fall, and floods we've been experiencing that fall in line with 99.9% of the worlds climate focused scientists" you might want to take account of what they bring to the table before wanting to quickly usher them out of the room.
Nice bait. Thanks for the laugh though.
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 11:29am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 11:30am
freeh wrote:
Nice bait. Thanks for the laugh though.
If facts are considered bait – nothing will ever change.

I pose the same question to you as I did to Titan1, what system works better that we can mirror?
freeh
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9/29/2017 11:34am
I was just replying to your ridiculous comment about the environment. Got a source for the 99.9% of scientists comment? Yeah, didn't think so.

The Shop

akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 11:43am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 11:46am
freeh wrote:
I was just replying to your ridiculous comment about the environment. Got a source for the 99.9% of scientists comment? Yeah, didn't think so.
My bad, 97% percent, not 99.9%: https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

But to loosely quote Joe Rogan, "if I give you a sandwich that is 97% shit and 3% turkey – are you still going to call that a turkey sandwich?"

And again, what do you pose we do? It's easy to sit back and try to punch holes over semantics (2.9%) but it takes real work to come up with a viable solution and if you have one, I'm all ears.
Titan1
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Lehi, UT US
9/29/2017 11:49am
Titan1 wrote:
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is...
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is ran efficiently...and America will follow its lead All the way down the toilet.

If someone out there is doing it better then by all means lead the way because as it stands now, more of my tax money goes...
If someone out there is doing it better then by all means lead the way because as it stands now, more of my tax money goes back to helping other states than of theirs coming to help me.

Edit: I'm not saying this to combative at all. Honestly, if there is a better method I am all ears.
Pick any state that Californians, or perhaps more importantly, California businesses are moving too...follow those states' example.
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 11:53am
Titan1 wrote:
Pick any state that Californians, or perhaps more importantly, California businesses are moving too...follow those states' example.
What are those states doing better than California?

(I realize this reads as sarcastic but it's not intended to be, I'm only trying to open a dialogue in which we can compare and contrast the difference to see what is working / not working in both territories)
Titan1
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9/29/2017 12:25pm
Titan1 wrote:
Pick any state that Californians, or perhaps more importantly, California businesses are moving too...follow those states' example.
What are those states doing better than California? (I realize this reads as sarcastic but it's not intended to be, I'm only trying to open a...
What are those states doing better than California?

(I realize this reads as sarcastic but it's not intended to be, I'm only trying to open a dialogue in which we can compare and contrast the difference to see what is working / not working in both territories)

Those states have less regulation, lower taxes, lower cost of living, etc etc etc. I feel like you are forcing me to explain to you why 2+2=4...it's common knowledge why businesses leave CA.

Everyone knows CA is a joke (Politically)...it can't get out of its own way (economically)...the tail wags the dog (special interest groups)...it has cut off its nose to spite its face (environmental regulations)...and it keeps smacking its thumb with their own hammer over and over again (immigration and political correctness).

Anyway...you fire up google and find some statistics you can manipulate in your favor...I'm going riding for the weekend. Have a good afternoon!
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 1:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 1:06pm
Titan1 wrote:
Those states have less regulation, lower taxes, lower cost of living, etc etc etc. I feel like you are forcing me to explain to you why...

Those states have less regulation, lower taxes, lower cost of living, etc etc etc. I feel like you are forcing me to explain to you why 2+2=4...it's common knowledge why businesses leave CA.

Everyone knows CA is a joke (Politically)...it can't get out of its own way (economically)...the tail wags the dog (special interest groups)...it has cut off its nose to spite its face (environmental regulations)...and it keeps smacking its thumb with their own hammer over and over again (immigration and political correctness).

Anyway...you fire up google and find some statistics you can manipulate in your favor...I'm going riding for the weekend. Have a good afternoon!
And what do you think happens when those businesses relocate to places where they can get away with less regulation? Do you think it stays that way? No. They bounce to the next new place where they can make more money with cheaper resources (be it physical product or people) and less environmental responsibility, which then draws more people to working for them (they've consumed all the competition), which leads to less space for said people to live, which leads to higher cost of living, which leads to less low paying jobs (smart people eventually figure out how to do more work with less people), which then leads to higher cost of education to keep up, which then always leads back to more regulation.

This isn't some new thing that the "idiots in California" somehow just figured out to get away from the taxes in California. It's a model as old as time and at it's core is city, state, and country wide gentrification (which everyone here loves oh so much).

Why do you think the fashion industry has slowly bounced from country to country? They know the game, get away from regulation, exploit the system, and move onto the next after they can no longer take advantage of the freedoms that drew them to there in the first place.

This is basic economics.
seth505
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9/29/2017 1:16pm
Titan1 wrote:
Pick any state that Californians, or perhaps more importantly, California businesses are moving too...follow those states' example.
What are those states doing better than California? (I realize this reads as sarcastic but it's not intended to be, I'm only trying to open a...
What are those states doing better than California?

(I realize this reads as sarcastic but it's not intended to be, I'm only trying to open a dialogue in which we can compare and contrast the difference to see what is working / not working in both territories)
Pick one state (other than Illinois) Grinning
SCR
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9/29/2017 1:17pm
MR. X wrote:
Ya, save us california ,without you we are nothing.
No one said you were nothing, I just pointed out that while Californians might have "[i]crazy idea's about the insane rate of storms, fires, hurricanes, tornados...
No one said you were nothing, I just pointed out that while Californians might have "crazy idea's about the insane rate of storms, fires, hurricanes, tornados, heatwaves, snow fall, and floods we've been experiencing that fall in line with 99.9% of the worlds climate focused scientists" you might want to take account of what they bring to the table before wanting to quickly usher them out of the room.
You forgot Earthquakes. Yes, California and its leaders like Jerry Brown are hell bent on saving us from climate change even if it bankrupts the tax payers. And if you think they don't know what the hell they are doing I would point you to the 30B dollar high speed rail project that will show the world just how progressive and forward thinking we are. OK, its really going to be over 100B and they have no plan on how they are going to pay for it. But that wont stop them from going forward because after all its such a great idea. Besides its nothing another gas tax hike or 20 wont fix right. Even if it doesn't work out it looks like we are soon to be a sanctuary State. So we have that to look forward to.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I moved to this State with my parents in 1968 and it was the greatest place on earth in my eyes. Now sadly I am planning our escape like so many other people Ive known over the years.

By the way 99.9% of so called climate experts have gotten it wildly wrong for the last 30 or so years with their expensive climate models. And please don't post graphs and charts from Nasa Goddard Institute, the IPCC, etc. I have seen it and read it. If you follow that graph that you posted back another 400 or 500 years you will see that global temps have been going up consistently long before anyone put gas in an engine because it used to be colder now its warmer and it will do it again after we are gone that's all.

Anyway, I know from your other posts that you feel strong about the condition of the poor in this country as most of us do. What law makers are doing in CA in the name of saving the planet and building trains will and is already having a huge negative effect on the poor and all other hard working people and small business. Do you pay attention to what our legislatures are doing every year to keep feeding the monster they have created ?

Remember ? " Were from the Govt and we are here to help." More like here to help ourselves to the rest of your money. They figure if you have some left over you will only put it under your pillow which is not helpful to the economy and can be better used by them.


9/29/2017 1:22pm
I think electric vehicles are a bad idea. This is the United States of america and I doubt that will be ban. My reasoning for electric vehicles being a bad idea is its still using emitions elsewhere. Ok wow great you're using electric but charging cars will then produce more carbon emitions at power plants instead. If any of you have been in school in recent years you will learn about very clean burning alternatives and they need to hury up with those so electric doesnt take over and ruin stuff.
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 1:37pm
SCR wrote:
You forgot Earthquakes. Yes, California and its leaders like Jerry Brown are hell bent on saving us from climate change even if it bankrupts the tax...
You forgot Earthquakes. Yes, California and its leaders like Jerry Brown are hell bent on saving us from climate change even if it bankrupts the tax payers. And if you think they don't know what the hell they are doing I would point you to the 30B dollar high speed rail project that will show the world just how progressive and forward thinking we are. OK, its really going to be over 100B and they have no plan on how they are going to pay for it. But that wont stop them from going forward because after all its such a great idea. Besides its nothing another gas tax hike or 20 wont fix right. Even if it doesn't work out it looks like we are soon to be a sanctuary State. So we have that to look forward to.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I moved to this State with my parents in 1968 and it was the greatest place on earth in my eyes. Now sadly I am planning our escape like so many other people Ive known over the years.

By the way 99.9% of so called climate experts have gotten it wildly wrong for the last 30 or so years with their expensive climate models. And please don't post graphs and charts from Nasa Goddard Institute, the IPCC, etc. I have seen it and read it. If you follow that graph that you posted back another 400 or 500 years you will see that global temps have been going up consistently long before anyone put gas in an engine because it used to be colder now its warmer and it will do it again after we are gone that's all.

Anyway, I know from your other posts that you feel strong about the condition of the poor in this country as most of us do. What law makers are doing in CA in the name of saving the planet and building trains will and is already having a huge negative effect on the poor and all other hard working people and small business. Do you pay attention to what our legislatures are doing every year to keep feeding the monster they have created ?

Remember ? " Were from the Govt and we are here to help." More like here to help ourselves to the rest of your money. They figure if you have some left over you will only put it under your pillow which is not helpful to the economy and can be better used by them.


No one is debating that is has been hotter or colder, it's the rate in which the change is happening that is the issue. It's ramping up at a speed in which the environment can't keep up.

Good old earthquakes, thanks to fracking (another prime example of lack of regulation) we got a fuck load more of those too... as well as leaving shells of cities that they've burned through.
SCR
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CA US
9/29/2017 2:00pm
SCR wrote:
You forgot Earthquakes. Yes, California and its leaders like Jerry Brown are hell bent on saving us from climate change even if it bankrupts the tax...
You forgot Earthquakes. Yes, California and its leaders like Jerry Brown are hell bent on saving us from climate change even if it bankrupts the tax payers. And if you think they don't know what the hell they are doing I would point you to the 30B dollar high speed rail project that will show the world just how progressive and forward thinking we are. OK, its really going to be over 100B and they have no plan on how they are going to pay for it. But that wont stop them from going forward because after all its such a great idea. Besides its nothing another gas tax hike or 20 wont fix right. Even if it doesn't work out it looks like we are soon to be a sanctuary State. So we have that to look forward to.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I moved to this State with my parents in 1968 and it was the greatest place on earth in my eyes. Now sadly I am planning our escape like so many other people Ive known over the years.

By the way 99.9% of so called climate experts have gotten it wildly wrong for the last 30 or so years with their expensive climate models. And please don't post graphs and charts from Nasa Goddard Institute, the IPCC, etc. I have seen it and read it. If you follow that graph that you posted back another 400 or 500 years you will see that global temps have been going up consistently long before anyone put gas in an engine because it used to be colder now its warmer and it will do it again after we are gone that's all.

Anyway, I know from your other posts that you feel strong about the condition of the poor in this country as most of us do. What law makers are doing in CA in the name of saving the planet and building trains will and is already having a huge negative effect on the poor and all other hard working people and small business. Do you pay attention to what our legislatures are doing every year to keep feeding the monster they have created ?

Remember ? " Were from the Govt and we are here to help." More like here to help ourselves to the rest of your money. They figure if you have some left over you will only put it under your pillow which is not helpful to the economy and can be better used by them.


No one is debating that is has been hotter or colder, it's the rate in which the change is happening that is the issue. It's ramping...
No one is debating that is has been hotter or colder, it's the rate in which the change is happening that is the issue. It's ramping up at a speed in which the environment can't keep up.

Good old earthquakes, thanks to fracking (another prime example of lack of regulation) we got a fuck load more of those too... as well as leaving shells of cities that they've burned through.
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has been for thousands of years ? Its about 58 deg F give or take a few deg. If they made a proper graph over the last 150 years it would look like this ______________________________________.

Im not saying lets all have fossil fuel burning parties or we should not be good stewards of our environment, or we should not pursue alternative energy for electricity and cars. Im just saying climate change is a boogeyman. And the biggest names pushing it are living in 20,000 sq. ft. mansions and leaving a carbon footprint in their wake a thousand times the damage myself and my whole family will do in a lifetime.
akillerwombat
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Los Angeles, CA US
9/29/2017 2:02pm
SCR wrote:
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has...
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has been for thousands of years ? Its about 58 deg F give or take a few deg. If they made a proper graph over the last 150 years it would look like this ______________________________________.

Im not saying lets all have fossil fuel burning parties or we should not be good stewards of our environment, or we should not pursue alternative energy for electricity and cars. Im just saying climate change is a boogeyman. And the biggest names pushing it are living in 20,000 sq. ft. mansions and leaving a carbon footprint in their wake a thousand times the damage myself and my whole family will do in a lifetime.
Link me to a 'proper' graph.
oldblood
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9/29/2017 2:10pm
Link me to a 'proper' graph.
I'm just curious, do you actually own a dirt bike?
early
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9/29/2017 2:13pm
oldblood wrote:
I'm just curious, do you actually own a dirt bike?
Take that shot to moto-related bro Laughing
Sondy132001
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9/29/2017 3:02pm
Titan1 wrote:
I've got no loyalty to the ICE engine...but I do like the lifestyle and freedoms it affords. If electric (or whatever) vehicles can better the ICE...
I've got no loyalty to the ICE engine...but I do like the lifestyle and freedoms it affords.

If electric (or whatever) vehicles can better the ICE vehicles in performance, reliability, range, price etc etc...I'll start buying them.

All I know is I stopped at the gas station on my way to the grocery store the other night, filled up my car in about 3 minutes and left (knowing I'll get nearly 500 miles out of those 14 gallons of gas...it's a VW TDI), as I'm leaving I notice at electric car with some converter or something plugged into the side of the building (charging his batteries as best I can assume)...I have no idea how long he'd been there, but he was there when I pulled up (the driver was sitting in the drivers seat playing on his phone) and there when I left.

About 45 minutes later, as I drive past that same gas station on my way home, and I glance over and the car is still sitting there plugged into the building.

This is a MAJOR issue electric cars will have...range...and then recharge times. I don't care if I can get 500 miles out of a charge if I have to part for over an hour to charge the batteries. That would make a road trip miserable.
I charge my car every night when I get home, I do the trickle charge, takes all night, it add's about $40 a month to my electric bill. You can do the quick charge, takes 20-30 mins, which is ok for me, but I don't have to do that very often, maybe 5 times a year. I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf, I drive the carpool lane on the 405 Mon-Fri by myself, it's awesome.

Nissan is coming out with a 150 mile range Leaf beginning of 2018 which I signed up for. After driving an electric car I'll never go back to gas/diesel. I love my car.
Sondy132001
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9/29/2017 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 3:17pm
Titan1 wrote:
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is...
California is a mess econominally...taxes are to high...budgets even higher...ran by special interests...radical environmentalists are the tail wagging the dog...to many regulations...nobody thinks the state is ran efficiently...and America will follow its lead All the way down the toilet.

The average NJ property tax bill costs 9 percent of your income, property tax rates in California generally fall within the range of 1.1 percent to 1.6 percent of assessed value, with an average close to 1.25 percent. Then how about Connecticut with oil for burning for heat etc. those costs add up too !

I've been fortunate to have traveled all over the world and the US, I'm good with California, dig my area and weather. I have been here a long time, I remember the days as a kid my lungs hurting breathing in and looking across the valleys and not being able to see the smog was so thick, I am stoked it's been cleaned up. My only complaint now is I think it should be mandatory that if you build a new home ? Solar should be mandatory !

I hope all the people complaining what a shit hole we are, leave fast, it'll help with my drive and traffic Wink
XXVoid MainXX
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Schenectady, NY US
9/29/2017 3:29pm
Titan1 wrote:
I've got no loyalty to the ICE engine...but I do like the lifestyle and freedoms it affords. If electric (or whatever) vehicles can better the ICE...
I've got no loyalty to the ICE engine...but I do like the lifestyle and freedoms it affords.

If electric (or whatever) vehicles can better the ICE vehicles in performance, reliability, range, price etc etc...I'll start buying them.

All I know is I stopped at the gas station on my way to the grocery store the other night, filled up my car in about 3 minutes and left (knowing I'll get nearly 500 miles out of those 14 gallons of gas...it's a VW TDI), as I'm leaving I notice at electric car with some converter or something plugged into the side of the building (charging his batteries as best I can assume)...I have no idea how long he'd been there, but he was there when I pulled up (the driver was sitting in the drivers seat playing on his phone) and there when I left.

About 45 minutes later, as I drive past that same gas station on my way home, and I glance over and the car is still sitting there plugged into the building.

This is a MAJOR issue electric cars will have...range...and then recharge times. I don't care if I can get 500 miles out of a charge if I have to part for over an hour to charge the batteries. That would make a road trip miserable.
I charge my car every night when I get home, I do the trickle charge, takes all night, it add's about $40 a month to my...
I charge my car every night when I get home, I do the trickle charge, takes all night, it add's about $40 a month to my electric bill. You can do the quick charge, takes 20-30 mins, which is ok for me, but I don't have to do that very often, maybe 5 times a year. I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf, I drive the carpool lane on the 405 Mon-Fri by myself, it's awesome.

Nissan is coming out with a 150 mile range Leaf beginning of 2018 which I signed up for. After driving an electric car I'll never go back to gas/diesel. I love my car.
Nice to hear! I would love to have an EV myself. It would have been perfect for my 100 mile round trip commute every day through down town STL. Problem is I work from home how and do very little driving anymore so I can no longer justify one. I'm on the sidelines cheering you guys on though!
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 4:10pm
SCR wrote:
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has...
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has been for thousands of years ? Its about 58 deg F give or take a few deg. If they made a proper graph over the last 150 years it would look like this ______________________________________.

Im not saying lets all have fossil fuel burning parties or we should not be good stewards of our environment, or we should not pursue alternative energy for electricity and cars. Im just saying climate change is a boogeyman. And the biggest names pushing it are living in 20,000 sq. ft. mansions and leaving a carbon footprint in their wake a thousand times the damage myself and my whole family will do in a lifetime.
Just checking in.... any update on that 'proper graph'?

There's enough people on this board that disagree with me, and their eagerness to prove it, that you'd think some thing would have been posted by now.
SCR
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CA US
9/29/2017 5:24pm
SCR wrote:
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has...
No its not the rate. You are being mislead by manipulation of charts and graphs. Do you know what the average global temperature is and has been for thousands of years ? Its about 58 deg F give or take a few deg. If they made a proper graph over the last 150 years it would look like this ______________________________________.

Im not saying lets all have fossil fuel burning parties or we should not be good stewards of our environment, or we should not pursue alternative energy for electricity and cars. Im just saying climate change is a boogeyman. And the biggest names pushing it are living in 20,000 sq. ft. mansions and leaving a carbon footprint in their wake a thousand times the damage myself and my whole family will do in a lifetime.
Just checking in.... any update on that 'proper graph'? There's enough people on this board that disagree with me, and their eagerness to prove it, that...
Just checking in.... any update on that 'proper graph'?

There's enough people on this board that disagree with me, and their eagerness to prove it, that you'd think some thing would have been posted by now.
100 deg F.

58 deg F. ---------------------------------------------------------------

0 deg F.

Year 1700 2017

akillerwombat
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Los Angeles, CA US
9/29/2017 5:31pm
SCR wrote:
100 deg F.

58 deg F. ---------------------------------------------------------------

0 deg F.

Year 1700 2017

Looks interesting, source?
akillerwombat
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9/29/2017 6:07pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2017 6:07pm
oldblood wrote:
Prove it
The last thing I'm going to do is bend to the demands of a kid who replies to his own comments so that someone will finally agree with him and or because he hopes someone finally reads the comment he posted 3 pages ago.

If you have something to contribute to the topic at hand (perhaps the graph SCR claims to exist but can't locate) then sure, I'll engage with you, but you're proving to be far too immature to luer me down to your level.
oldblood
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9/29/2017 6:07pm
Just checking in.... any update on that 'proper graph'? There's enough people on this board that disagree with me, and their eagerness to prove it, that...
Just checking in.... any update on that 'proper graph'?

There's enough people on this board that disagree with me, and their eagerness to prove it, that you'd think some thing would have been posted by now.
Just checking in.......any update on that 'bike'?
oldblood
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Placerville, CA US
9/29/2017 6:45pm
oldblood wrote:
Prove it
The last thing I'm going to do is bend to the demands of a kid who replies to his own comments so that someone will finally...
The last thing I'm going to do is bend to the demands of a kid who replies to his own comments so that someone will finally agree with him and or because he hopes someone finally reads the comment he posted 3 pages ago.

If you have something to contribute to the topic at hand (perhaps the graph SCR claims to exist but can't locate) then sure, I'll engage with you, but you're proving to be far too immature to luer me down to your level.
Ha ha,engage' this'!
XXVoid MainXX
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9/29/2017 6:51pm
Even if you don't believe in global warming there are plenty of other VERY good reasons to switch off of fossil fuel.

Post a reply to: Calif. considering ban on sale of internal combustion engine?

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