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Neither had the intent to shoot (or harm) another person, but that is what happened.
I think Cheney was more negligent, as he knew he had a fully functional gun.
Baldwin was filming a movie.
Why would there even be a live round anywhere in the vicinity?
A Sergeant who had gotten sick a week earlier at a live fire training was told to drop his belt and it would be taken care of. He was given that same belt for this non-live fire training. There was a single clip of live .223 ammunition mixed in with the blanks. It was dark, around midnight, and they had already gone through one rotation. Seth had gone for the stash and was spotted. The sergeant emptied a clip, grabbed another, and fired a few more rounds. The spotter thought Seth was a good actor because he twitched with each of the rounds.
Thing to be taken away from this is guns are tools to kill. That's what they are made for, and the only thing they are made for. The sergeant went to prison for firing what he was told was a safe gun. The people who planned the impromptu training and failed to follow multiple safety rules were transferred. The guy who didn't remove the clip didn't get anything that I'm aware of. I felt bad for the sergeant because I didn't really feel like he was at fault, but he was the lowest on the ladder and was thrown under the bus.
Someone is going to get in trouble for this, but don't expect it to be anyone above the bottom rung.
The Shop
I personally think we need to wait for the proper investigations, I think he shouldnt be held responsible for the actual shooting part of the accident. I think its fair for an actor to assume that a gun handed to him and being told it is loaded with blanks, is in fact loaded with blanks
His role as a producer might be different. if they did not have process in place, he needs to cop some responsibility.
if he had industry standard process in place, and an armorer was negligent, or even worse, then the buck ends with them.
Just my opinion
But i am interested to hear what others think
And for the record, judging by the messages Baldwin has left for his daugher all those years ago....he seems like a proper shitty human, so i am not kissing his arse. but it does seem like a horrible accident, avoidable, but an accident none the less
Dinosaurs aren't real.. Humans aren't super heroes and can't fly.. Why does the thing that can kill if a mistake is made have to be real?
My suspicion is that the firearm was either taken to the range or even into the desert for recreational shooting, and/or perhaps in an attempt to discover why the reported misfires (most likely light primer strikes) were occurring. And then from that; due to an overworked, generally exhausted and all round unprofessional miserable environment, someone on the staff got sloppy and left one or two in... If it's a Peacemaker type deal then the cylinder doesn't swing out and thus missing one is all the more likely for people who are not doing what they should to begin with.
She had no military or police training background far as I can tell. No qualifications that you might consider necessary to perform as an armorer.
Baldwin is not a “gun expert”, or even novice, for that matter.
He is a actor who was handed a prop. I think he can have the benefit of the doubt that what he is being handed is not real.
Imagine if somebody had handed Luke Skywalker a real light saber when they were filming Star Wars?
He woulda been a mass murderer!
Terrible.
Well, negligent homicide for one.
I can tell the police I was filming a YouTube video and it’s was my friends responsibility to make sure the gun was not loaded..I am free to go home, right?
Sadly this has happened on film sets before, what is the legal precedent?
To me it seems like the fault was at the props department. If Baldwin is a producer is it his responsibility to hire these people? If so and he employed people that were not adequately experienced or qualified, I put more blame on him for that part than pulling the trigger.
I can’t see Baldwin being charged with anything higher than manslaughter, and I doubt even that would stick.
Time will tell
Pit Row
To suggest the actor being told the gun was cold should have identified the weight as a live round is not realistic. To suggest it is the actor's responsibility to check the status of the gun and the type of round is sensible but clearly has not been an on-set guideline. I would imagine everyone on a set will be more proactive in this area moving forward.
This is an accident, a terrible accident that was preventable. An actor is not responsible to check a car he has to drive for roadworthiness. He won't be checking the spokes on a bike he has to ride. He wont cook his own meals or test food he eats while acting on camera. All these thing could have dire consequences if something was not right. That's why there are people assigned to the task of ensuring all is OK. Their competency is the issue here, not the actor's.
This has zero to do with gun laws. Zero to do with politics. This is about chain of custody of a weapon and overall workplace competency.
However, I can't see any reason for a live round to be anywhere on a film set. Who knows why it was there. That will be figured out as the investigation proceeds.
This
That was a very detailed and plausible explanation.
Everybody has a role and responsibility, and rock stars and actors are responsible for very little of it.
When everybody else has done the hard work, they come out of their trailer, perform, then head back to the AC and a cold drink.
Why was there a live round anywhere near this filming?
It is the last thing any reasonable person would expect.
BeCaUsE ThE ClInToNs
Movie, Actor, procedures, protocols, armorer, prop master, yada yada yada.. all bullshit words that do not diminish the above truth.
But that's just how the world is these days. This was an accident on set and the responsible parties - mainly the armorer and AD - will and should lay the blame.
There are protocols and responsibilities the have been laid out and negotiated by unions for over 100 years of movies, commercials,TV shows being filmed. An actor being handed a gun by an AD who tells him "cold gun" is the real problem here. Also the info coming out about the 24 year old Armorer on only her 2nd film and the things she said in a podcast recently is very troubling
The Dp was killed, the director injured. A live round was in a gun given to an actor.
What we don't know:
Was the actor 3 feet away from the victims or 50? In the same room?
Was it rehearsal? 5th rehearsal? A take? Take 4?
Was the gun aimed toward the people or was it aimed elsewhere, possibly aimed at a protective shield, the projectile being deflected toward the victims?
Was the actor aiming the gun as part of the scene or just handling it in preparation for the scene?
Was it an intentional firing or an accidental firing? Like tossing it from one hand to the other? Dropping it?
Did the scene involve the actor fighting another struggling over the gun?
In time, these scenarios with no longer be conjecture.
It takes some imagination to declare anyone guilty right now.
Post a reply to: Baldwin/blanks/kill ….. Avidchimp?