Assault weapons

OldYZRider1
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8/15/2019 2:00pm
scott_nz wrote:
Assault weapon must be one of the most overused and under defined terms, this is called a MSSA here, Military Style Semi Auto, here is what...
Assault weapon must be one of the most overused and under defined terms,

this is called a MSSA here, Military Style Semi Auto,

here is what they define a MSSA

from Wiki,

The 2013 version of the Arms Code describes a military style semi-automatic firearm as any "self-loading" (i.e. semi-automatic) firearm, other than a pistol, with any of the following features:[5]

Folding or telescopic butt
Magazine that holds, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 15 cartridges (for .22 rimfire)
Magazine that holds more than 7 cartridges, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 10 cartridges (for other than a .22 rimfire)
Bayonet lug
Pistol grip as defined by regulation
Flash suppressor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-style_semi-automatic_firearms
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip feature is becoming more prevalent on many rifles these days.

Of course criminals don't care what the definitions are they'll get whatever guns they can steal or smuggle in and do damage with them. And a person hell bent on destruction doesn't need a gun and can use a vehicle or even construct a bomb out of fertilizer and diesel fuel. With that they can blow up a federal building like Timothy McVeigh did in 1995 killing 168; many of them children.

I'm less concerned about how people do these mass killing events and more about why they do it. There's always going to be a way to accomplish it if they really want to.


1
motogrady
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8/15/2019 2:20pm
I see where u guys are coming from.

But, what is more important. One could say frivolous trials, or the right of a critical government
check and balance?

Which is more important?

Maybe the amendment to the constitution should
not be about banning guns, but speedy execution in certain cases.

Thoughts?
rosebud441
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8/15/2019 2:25pm
hate to interrupt the circle jerk here...

but a clear majority of voters actually support a ban on assault weapons.. whatever you define them as..

22
motogrady
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8/15/2019 2:55pm
Maybe so, a lot are caught up in the hype.

Ratings said Hillary was a lock also.
3

The Shop

rosebud441
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8/15/2019 3:02pm
Hype will slowly fade, i agree.. Then we have another and another and another..
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lostboy819
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8/15/2019 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/19/2019 2:45pm
rosebud441 wrote:
hate to interrupt the circle jerk here...

but a clear majority of voters actually support a ban on assault weapons.. whatever you define them as..

You can make up any lie that you want and then spread it, but that doesn't make it true and you cant speak for anyone but yourself and not "clear majority" You guys cant even come up what a clear definition is of a "assault weapon".Large capacity magazine's are banned from sale in Colorado but you can go in any gun store in Colorado and buy as as many as you want without breaking the law.
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FiendzCC
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8/15/2019 3:22pm
rosebud441 wrote:
hate to interrupt the circle jerk here...

but a clear majority of voters actually support a ban on assault weapons.. whatever you define them as..

Yeah, we don't care. OP asked what members of this board thought, and they're sharing their opinions/beliefs on the subject. Pretty healthy conversation being had in here, not sure why you feel compelled to ruin that.
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scott_nz
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8/15/2019 3:29pm
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip...
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip feature is becoming more prevalent on many rifles these days.

Of course criminals don't care what the definitions are they'll get whatever guns they can steal or smuggle in and do damage with them. And a person hell bent on destruction doesn't need a gun and can use a vehicle or even construct a bomb out of fertilizer and diesel fuel. With that they can blow up a federal building like Timothy McVeigh did in 1995 killing 168; many of them children.

I'm less concerned about how people do these mass killing events and more about why they do it. There's always going to be a way to accomplish it if they really want to.


if its bolt action, then its not self loading semi automatic, so the other parts don't come into effect,

these rules are old now anyway, after Christchurch you basically can only have a .22 semi automatic, which is used for pest control here, (mainly Rabbits and Possum) we dont have those maundering hogs that hunt in packs here Wink

scott_nz
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8/15/2019 3:35pm
sam hain wrote:
Let me throw something else out there, what are you all's opinions on the mental health debate regarding back ground checks?
I actually think this is more important than banning any guns, most of the rest of the world you have to prove your safe and get a gun licence before you purchase guns or ammo, and if you are convicted of an violence offense, or have mental health issues your licence is taken away, it has to be renewed every 10 years, with a police check, 2 referees, one being a family member, and someone else who is not,

here you need to have a licence to buy guns, or ammo, even privately, to buy a gun or ammo online or by mail order, you need to go to the local police station, and present your firearms licence and they contact the store and then it is released for shipping, the Christchurch Shooter brought a heap of stuff like this, and apparently their has been people complain about his behavior so why he was allowed to keep his licence is questioned buy a-lot of people here,
no system is perfect, and there will always be the ones that get around the law, as there is with everything else,
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lostboy819
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8/15/2019 3:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2019 4:04pm
sam hain wrote:
What are your thoughts on them? Should they be legal or illegal for citizens? I watched Joe Rogan's podcast with Bernie Sanders yesterday, and he mentioned...
What are your thoughts on them? Should they be legal or illegal for citizens?
I watched Joe Rogan's podcast with Bernie Sanders yesterday, and he mentioned if he were elected president he would ban them for citizens for personal use. Just curious what everyone thinks on this?

I hope Guy doesn't delete this as I would like to keep it clean and get some honest opinions.

Myself, I've never understood the need for Joe Blow to have an AR15 in his house. Pistols, shotguns, rifles, muzzle loaders are no problem IMO as I own guns myself. I've gotten into discussions with guys before about assault rifles and I've never heard one good argument in favor of them besides being cussed at for questioning them as to why they want them, or the random 'merica response and the 2nd amendment.

Thoughts?
If you are a law abiding citizen I think you should be able to buy and own what ever you want. That's one of the great things about America is that I can buy things I want as long as I follow the rules and I do, I like guns and have a good sized collection that are kept secure in gun safes and I practice gun safety at all times and support gun training and responsible gun ownership. I can also own a car that can go over 150MPH and motorcycles that do the same.

You said in your post " I've never understood the need for Joe Blow to have an AR15 in his house" but all should matter is that YOU choose not to have a AR15 but its not up to YOU or anyone else to tell anyone what we need as "need" has nothing to do with it. Want and need are two different things and one of the great things about living in the USA is we can buy what we want as long as its legal and we follow the rules, now people who don't follow the laws we cannot control.
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lostboy819
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8/15/2019 4:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2019 4:29pm
sam hain wrote:
Let me throw something else out there, what are you all's opinions on the mental health debate regarding back ground checks?
If someone has mental issues I think they should not be able to buy a gun,with that being said what worries me is who is going to make the determination on who is and is not mentally stable or competent. Unfortunately there is not way to weed out the looneys and others with emotional issues. Sad Background checks and gun safety training and responseable gun ownership,I am all for it.
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zehn
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8/15/2019 4:34pm
lostboy819 wrote:
If someone has mental issues I think they should not be able to buy a gun,with that being said what worries me is who is going...
If someone has mental issues I think they should not be able to buy a gun,with that being said what worries me is who is going to make the determination on who is and is not mentally stable or competent. Unfortunately there is not way to weed out the looneys and others with emotional issues. Sad Background checks and gun safety training and responseable gun ownership,I am all for it.
Well, since people want a definition of what an "assault weapon" is, what is the definition of "mental issues" that should be disqualifying to a potential gun buyer? A history of depression? Anxiety? What makes it on the list?
2
8/15/2019 4:52pm
sam hain wrote:
Let me throw something else out there, what are you all's opinions on the mental health debate regarding back ground checks?
lostboy819 wrote:
If someone has mental issues I think they should not be able to buy a gun,with that being said what worries me is who is going...
If someone has mental issues I think they should not be able to buy a gun,with that being said what worries me is who is going to make the determination on who is and is not mentally stable or competent. Unfortunately there is not way to weed out the looneys and others with emotional issues. Sad Background checks and gun safety training and responseable gun ownership,I am all for it.
I get it, but don't really care. As another poster mentioned in a different thread, I lost all my weapons and ammo in a boating accident. Recovery is out of the question.
Falcon
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8/15/2019 5:47pm
Casting wrote:
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine. We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective. Edit: Why down...
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine.

We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective.


Edit: Why down vote the guy for being curious and asking for feedback? 98% of other people who start this topic are throwing around accusations and being jerks... sheesh
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A...
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A search of the site will prove that out.

I said the other day I don't get into any kind of thread where weapons are involved as far as a debate. I will say this much, and then leave it alone - because to me it is the "be all and end all" to the question of "Why do you need that sort of weapon?"

It's none of your business. Mind your own business and don't worry about mine. The Bill of Rights says I can, and that's all you need to know about the why of it. Further, did you know the Bill of Rights is not meant to limit the citizen? It is meant to limit what government can do to a citizen. The Bill of Rights is all about limiting government - not the citizen. It's really a beautiful document until it gets reinterpreted into meaning something it was never meant to say, and it's not hard to figure out what the founders meant when they wrote it. There are so many writings by them outside of the Bill of Rights making it very clear what they intended with each of the amendments.

Honestly, that's all I'm going to add. Take it or leave it. Sam, don't feel "put upon" by me. You're a good poster and a good guy to have around Vital.
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



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7I3N
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8/15/2019 6:38pm
rosebud441 wrote:
hate to interrupt the circle jerk here...

but a clear majority of voters actually support a ban on assault weapons.. whatever you define them as..

The power and control game has been the same for all of human history. Keep the masses in fear and ignorance, and make them believe that the only way they can stay safe is if they give their power over to whomever is in control. It worked the same way for kings thousands of years ago as it does for governments now. That’s why the founders gave us a republic and not a democracy. A republic is a wise set of rules put in place that is very difficult to change by design. That way, it’s much harder for a spooked mass of sheep to undermine the liberty of everyone else.
6
7I3N
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8/15/2019 6:42pm
I get it, but don't really care. As another poster mentioned in a different thread, I lost all my weapons and ammo in a boating accident...
I get it, but don't really care. As another poster mentioned in a different thread, I lost all my weapons and ammo in a boating accident. Recovery is out of the question.
LOL. Reminds me of a joke. “You have 3 guns and the government confiscates 2 of them. How many guns do you now have? 37, because you lied to the government about how many you actually had.”
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scott_nz
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8/15/2019 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2019 7:18pm
Falcon wrote:
Holy shit, THIS. America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote...
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



lots of other places in the world have he right to vote,the right to silence, and the right to free speech, with out a 2nd amendment type law, and the US is just as able to have someone circumvent their constitution or other such laws to become a dictators,

in fact, the good old USA has helped such groups take over in countries like Iran over the last 70 odd years since WW2, deposing democratically elected governments, or helping the ones they liked at the time,
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reded
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8/15/2019 9:05pm
The government can muddy up the system with background checks for years but it won’t stop those who are intent on mass killing. Those people aren’t walking into a gun store, doing a background check, purchasing the weapons and then going on a killing spree. With enough cash on hand, I could purchase 100 different weapons tomorrow from private individuals and the government would be none the wiser. Once and for all, criminals do not buy weapons through legal channels to commit crimes!
3
FiendzCC
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8/15/2019 9:42pm
zehn wrote:
Well, since people want a definition of what an "assault weapon" is, what is the definition of "mental issues" that should be disqualifying to a potential...
Well, since people want a definition of what an "assault weapon" is, what is the definition of "mental issues" that should be disqualifying to a potential gun buyer? A history of depression? Anxiety? What makes it on the list?
This is another good point that I think about often. What deems someone "mentally unstable" enough to be ineligible to own firearms, and just as, if not more important, who decides this? Although I obviously don't want nutjobs having wide open access to firearms, it's a slippery slope indeed.
zehn
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8/15/2019 9:50pm
FiendzCC wrote:
This is another good point that I think about often. What deems someone "mentally unstable" enough to be ineligible to own firearms, and just as, if...
This is another good point that I think about often. What deems someone "mentally unstable" enough to be ineligible to own firearms, and just as, if not more important, who decides this? Although I obviously don't want nutjobs having wide open access to firearms, it's a slippery slope indeed.
Very much so. It gets into a lot of sketchy areas, such as the doctor-patient relationship, mandatory reporting on the part of healthcare professionals, non-reporting of mental health issues on the part of patients, etc.

It's really a difficult area of law and policy to have even basic conversations about
avidchimp
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8/15/2019 10:30pm
Casting wrote:
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine. We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective. Edit: Why down...
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine.

We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective.


Edit: Why down vote the guy for being curious and asking for feedback? 98% of other people who start this topic are throwing around accusations and being jerks... sheesh
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A...
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A search of the site will prove that out.

I said the other day I don't get into any kind of thread where weapons are involved as far as a debate. I will say this much, and then leave it alone - because to me it is the "be all and end all" to the question of "Why do you need that sort of weapon?"

It's none of your business. Mind your own business and don't worry about mine. The Bill of Rights says I can, and that's all you need to know about the why of it. Further, did you know the Bill of Rights is not meant to limit the citizen? It is meant to limit what government can do to a citizen. The Bill of Rights is all about limiting government - not the citizen. It's really a beautiful document until it gets reinterpreted into meaning something it was never meant to say, and it's not hard to figure out what the founders meant when they wrote it. There are so many writings by them outside of the Bill of Rights making it very clear what they intended with each of the amendments.

Honestly, that's all I'm going to add. Take it or leave it. Sam, don't feel "put upon" by me. You're a good poster and a good guy to have around Vital.
Falcon wrote:
Holy shit, THIS. America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote...
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man."

The only issue with the second amendment for me is the founding fathers could never have imagined the firepower one person could wield with two arms and a weapon. Anyone here who thinks they can fight the government with their personal arsenal and some fragmented group of like-minded people are just kidding themselves.

Use your vote to make change, which ever way you feel on this, and any other issue.
2
4
8/16/2019 3:39am
avidchimp wrote:
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man." The only issue with...
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man."

The only issue with the second amendment for me is the founding fathers could never have imagined the firepower one person could wield with two arms and a weapon. Anyone here who thinks they can fight the government with their personal arsenal and some fragmented group of like-minded people are just kidding themselves.

Use your vote to make change, which ever way you feel on this, and any other issue.
Yeah, can't fight the US government with small arms...said no Taliban ever.
2
ns503
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8/16/2019 3:57am
Casting wrote:
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine. We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective. Edit: Why down...
I'm no expert either, but your opinion is just as valid as mine.

We all benefit from learning more about each others perspective.


Edit: Why down vote the guy for being curious and asking for feedback? 98% of other people who start this topic are throwing around accusations and being jerks... sheesh
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A...
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A search of the site will prove that out.

I said the other day I don't get into any kind of thread where weapons are involved as far as a debate. I will say this much, and then leave it alone - because to me it is the "be all and end all" to the question of "Why do you need that sort of weapon?"

It's none of your business. Mind your own business and don't worry about mine. The Bill of Rights says I can, and that's all you need to know about the why of it. Further, did you know the Bill of Rights is not meant to limit the citizen? It is meant to limit what government can do to a citizen. The Bill of Rights is all about limiting government - not the citizen. It's really a beautiful document until it gets reinterpreted into meaning something it was never meant to say, and it's not hard to figure out what the founders meant when they wrote it. There are so many writings by them outside of the Bill of Rights making it very clear what they intended with each of the amendments.

Honestly, that's all I'm going to add. Take it or leave it. Sam, don't feel "put upon" by me. You're a good poster and a good guy to have around Vital.
Falcon wrote:
Holy shit, THIS. America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote...
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



2nd. has nothing to do with that stuff.

As far as I know the USA is the only country in the world that has a 2nd. type thing, and way far from the only country that has all that other nice stuff. And/or freedom.
2
8/16/2019 5:49am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2019 5:50am
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip...
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip feature is becoming more prevalent on many rifles these days.

Of course criminals don't care what the definitions are they'll get whatever guns they can steal or smuggle in and do damage with them. And a person hell bent on destruction doesn't need a gun and can use a vehicle or even construct a bomb out of fertilizer and diesel fuel. With that they can blow up a federal building like Timothy McVeigh did in 1995 killing 168; many of them children.

I'm less concerned about how people do these mass killing events and more about why they do it. There's always going to be a way to accomplish it if they really want to.


scott_nz wrote:
if its bolt action, then its not self loading semi automatic, so the other parts don't come into effect, these rules are old now anyway, after...
if its bolt action, then its not self loading semi automatic, so the other parts don't come into effect,

these rules are old now anyway, after Christchurch you basically can only have a .22 semi automatic, which is used for pest control here, (mainly Rabbits and Possum) we dont have those maundering hogs that hunt in packs here Wink

I have a .22 AR. And that thing is a tack driver. i
Could carry out a hellacious self defense action if I needed to.

I also have a 9mm chambered AR. My favorite.

Also 556/223 and 308. All serve a purpose.

But that yo-yo in NZ could of done just as much damage with a .22 AR15.


Does anyone here know the odd similar significance of a .22 and 5.56?
OldYZRider1
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8/16/2019 6:04am
Falcon wrote:
Holy shit, THIS. America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote...
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



What you've posted to a large part explains why I support the NRA. They help defend the front line for many other freedoms we have. If the US were to lose the second amendment it would be a really, really big deal. And if we're willing to let it go what'll we let go next?
8/16/2019 6:23am
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip...
This would exclude the Ruger Precision Rifle a long range bolt action target rifle that has a folding stock and a pistol grip. The pistol grip feature is becoming more prevalent on many rifles these days.

Of course criminals don't care what the definitions are they'll get whatever guns they can steal or smuggle in and do damage with them. And a person hell bent on destruction doesn't need a gun and can use a vehicle or even construct a bomb out of fertilizer and diesel fuel. With that they can blow up a federal building like Timothy McVeigh did in 1995 killing 168; many of them children.

I'm less concerned about how people do these mass killing events and more about why they do it. There's always going to be a way to accomplish it if they really want to.


scott_nz wrote:
if its bolt action, then its not self loading semi automatic, so the other parts don't come into effect, these rules are old now anyway, after...
if its bolt action, then its not self loading semi automatic, so the other parts don't come into effect,

these rules are old now anyway, after Christchurch you basically can only have a .22 semi automatic, which is used for pest control here, (mainly Rabbits and Possum) we dont have those maundering hogs that hunt in packs here Wink

I have a .22 AR. And that thing is a tack driver. i Could carry out a hellacious self defense action if I needed to. I...
I have a .22 AR. And that thing is a tack driver. i
Could carry out a hellacious self defense action if I needed to.

I also have a 9mm chambered AR. My favorite.

Also 556/223 and 308. All serve a purpose.

But that yo-yo in NZ could of done just as much damage with a .22 AR15.


Does anyone here know the odd similar significance of a .22 and 5.56?
Sure, both rounds are of a similar diameter. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I believe they are the same diameter - hence the other name for the 5.56 - .223.
OldYZRider1
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8/16/2019 6:33am
avidchimp wrote:
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man." The only issue with...
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man."

The only issue with the second amendment for me is the founding fathers could never have imagined the firepower one person could wield with two arms and a weapon. Anyone here who thinks they can fight the government with their personal arsenal and some fragmented group of like-minded people are just kidding themselves.

Use your vote to make change, which ever way you feel on this, and any other issue.
Government forces backed down from the Bundys for fear of another total shit show that developed in Waco. The Bundy's were armed and militias were present.

Many of Americans have multiple guns, I have a gun safe full of them and many people have multiple guns safes full of guns and ammo. So millions of Americans with many more millions of guns. I believe we could outfit a considerable number of Americans with guns and ammo to at least make an initial stand.

But I personally have a hard time believing our government forces would turn against their own people even if given a directive to do so. I also believe that many, many sheriffs around the country would not participate in any sort of gun confiscation if things ever come to that. They like knowing that millions of lawful gun owning Americans are backing them up. The bullshit that happened in Philly indicates to me that they may increasingly appreciate that fact.
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8/16/2019 6:48am
Government forces backed down from the Bundys for fear of another total shit show that developed in Waco. The Bundy's were armed and militias were present...
Government forces backed down from the Bundys for fear of another total shit show that developed in Waco. The Bundy's were armed and militias were present.

Many of Americans have multiple guns, I have a gun safe full of them and many people have multiple guns safes full of guns and ammo. So millions of Americans with many more millions of guns. I believe we could outfit a considerable number of Americans with guns and ammo to at least make an initial stand.

But I personally have a hard time believing our government forces would turn against their own people even if given a directive to do so. I also believe that many, many sheriffs around the country would not participate in any sort of gun confiscation if things ever come to that. They like knowing that millions of lawful gun owning Americans are backing them up. The bullshit that happened in Philly indicates to me that they may increasingly appreciate that fact.
I don't think the feds were afraid of gunfire that caused them to cool the situation, it was the optics of killing the insurgents rather than ending it peacefully. They did the right thing, but it could have gone the other way very easily.
FLmxer
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8/16/2019 6:58am
Also a lot of people love the gun hobby like you like your dirtbike hobby. There is also folks out there that want to decide for you that dirtbikes are very dangerous and should be taken away because adults and kids are killed or injured on them regularly. All it takes is one politicians kid to get hurt or the divorced politician mom that didnt sign the waver and the ex spouse did and little Billy got hurt or worse.
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8/16/2019 7:15am
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A...
I'm not gonna down vote ole Sam. I just wonder if we really needed another thread about this. This has been done to death here. A search of the site will prove that out.

I said the other day I don't get into any kind of thread where weapons are involved as far as a debate. I will say this much, and then leave it alone - because to me it is the "be all and end all" to the question of "Why do you need that sort of weapon?"

It's none of your business. Mind your own business and don't worry about mine. The Bill of Rights says I can, and that's all you need to know about the why of it. Further, did you know the Bill of Rights is not meant to limit the citizen? It is meant to limit what government can do to a citizen. The Bill of Rights is all about limiting government - not the citizen. It's really a beautiful document until it gets reinterpreted into meaning something it was never meant to say, and it's not hard to figure out what the founders meant when they wrote it. There are so many writings by them outside of the Bill of Rights making it very clear what they intended with each of the amendments.

Honestly, that's all I'm going to add. Take it or leave it. Sam, don't feel "put upon" by me. You're a good poster and a good guy to have around Vital.
Falcon wrote:
Holy shit, THIS. America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote...
Holy shit, THIS.


America had just finished ridding itself of absolute tyranny when the founding fathers wrote The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They wrote the whole thing with the intent to make it impossible for another king or autocracy to enslave the populace, even going so far as to enshrine and approve a method whereby the populace could remove the governing body by force and replace it with something better, if needed. The 2nd amendment is truly what gives The Constitution its and THE PEOPLE their power, and any other freedom you hold dear owes its very existence to the 2nd.
Do you like the right to not testify against yourself? Thank the 2nd amendment.
Do you like the right to vote? Thank the 2nd.
Do you like the right to free speech? Thank the 2nd.
The truth of the matter is that any leader in any country could at once decide to become supreme leader by fiat, and THE PEOPLE of The United States are the best equipped populace to destroy such evil at the outset.



avidchimp wrote:
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man." The only issue with...
Good luck with that. The people without arms far outweigh the ones that do, so you are already out-numbered by the "man."

The only issue with the second amendment for me is the founding fathers could never have imagined the firepower one person could wield with two arms and a weapon. Anyone here who thinks they can fight the government with their personal arsenal and some fragmented group of like-minded people are just kidding themselves.

Use your vote to make change, which ever way you feel on this, and any other issue.
Could never have imagined? You must have not read much by the founding fathers. Sadly, not many do or have.

Here is what one said;
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ... Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither. Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

...or maybe you could ask the Germans how they felt about gun control during Nazi control.

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