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Not just black people like you've assumed.
But you, TX, and Kenny have proven numerous times throughout this thread that you only question the intensions of those who differ than the narrative you are clinging to. Despite how ignorant and blatantly racist those narratives happen to be.
That said... "Have fun. I'm out of this conversation."
As for playing the race card, it's funny that you bring up someone who won a judgement over racial harassment incidents. Is this a case of this "race card" you are referring to?
https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Racist-threats-case-filed-by-Sta…
It's not surprising that you might pick a couple of folks that work to confirm your desired world view, while ignoring others because you are uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance that occurs.
The Shop
Now if you painted "I (heart) Firewater!" in big letters on the side and ride that thing onto the rez, it might be a different story!
In many cases you have said what I was thinking but in a very civil manner. Better than I could’ve done it.
I personally would have said “it’s you who are paying their mortgage”
See how that works? Making assumptions of all people based on one written word
I have been following the Redskins mascot and our local HS Indian mascot (which by the way was changed) for a long time. Just recently became interested n buying a Indian Chieftan and wanted to throw this out there. Was not looking to start a heated discussion, just wanted opinions and I seem to have gotten many and I appreciate that.
Good day gentleman!
Even with the Redskins issue, the symbol on the helmet really isn't the problem. If they used that symbol along with their ORIGINAL nickname, the Braves, I doubt that there'd be much, if any, pushback from Native Americans or Native American affiliated groups.
Those that casually dismiss racial issues that make them uncomfortable with the “race card” mantra actually do make fun of her and others who’ve suffered racially motivated harassment, however.....
That's a very easy challenge for you to make when you know that the vast majority people in any issue really don't give a rats ass. What is portrayed in the media as "important" is usually just a smaller group of folks with an agenda that make a lot of noise and lists that make it "seem" like it's important to everyone. Most folks are much more interested in going about their daily life and taking care of their family to be bothered with some such rubbish. That's not to say that there are not some who believe they are offended, but it usually is a select few who want attention.
Here in San Diego, the SDSU mascot "Monty Montezuma" has his head on the chopping block about every 10 years.
Like your story, they said the cartoon character was demeaning, so the University compromised. They made it a more authentic character. Which made everyone "proud". The alleged offended people (I'm not sure there are any real Aztecs to be offended) and the school, who said it was to "honor" the Aztecs as they were fierce warriors. But again there is another push to eliminate him.
It's definitely a moving target, what's OK this year is taboo next year. It seems a lot of folks are getting judged for actions/words done/used 30-40-50 years ago by today's standards. That never works out well.
Long story short, I doubt there is much documentation to show how many people don't care, as the the people that don't care were probably out at work and didn't want to be bothered with stupid surveys.
Go through life and try to be respectful of others you meet and you minimize the opportunity
of these type of problems enough that you don't have to worry about shit like this. SMH
TM
And why would you assume that because the rhetoric is coming from a black woman, it'd sway my opinion?
Diamond & Silk are simply patronizing a customer base. They do not genuinely believe what they are promoting. As is the case with most pundits. And Im guessing you have only heard a few soundbites from Owens as some of her stronger points are in direct conflict with your beliefs.
I dont agree with a lot of what she says. I still follow her on twitter. I follow a LOT of people I dont agree with. I prefer to hear all sides of the debate. That is, if they are genuinely part of the discussion to really debate and not just to agitate.
Part of the problem is that the loudest voices arent actually here to debate and find solutions. They're there to agitate and create more division. Shaun White, Deray, O'Riely, Tomi Lahren, etc. All two sides of the same coin.
Peace
PS
Pit Row
What can I say? I'm set in my ways.
@Kenny.....I hope you get your bike and have a blast on it! I very much doubt your bike will ever " trigger " some snowflake.....but if it does , that's what your middle finger is for.
That’s the core issue on all these topics.
The end.
This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in person. Not fond of the feathered Indian head on the tank but that’s what this model has and everything else about it is what I’m after. I have a friend that does custom painting on cars/bikes n if I get tired of it he could always repaint the tank. This bike is very similar to my HD street glide but from what I hear is a little superior in overall design/performance. It’s slightly used and several K under the retail price
Anyway thanks for all the input guys. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers...no pun intended
You are probably right about some people though. No amount of evidence will change their minds.
I would argue those people are still the outlier. Which is why it's 2018 and we STILL have disagreements on whether racism even exists or not. I mean, for decades minorities complained about police brutality right? And the opposition said it was just lies, victim mentality, or exaggeration.
The only people that really believed their stories were people who had their own run-ins with law enforcement. In areas where minority populations dont exist, police often find and target a different sub-culture. There's something about the nature of the job that leads to bullying. But I digress...
Then the smart phone was invented. Video evidence pops up daily. Purely factual evidence of unarmed civilians being assaulted and even killed by police. Based on your post, that should have ended all debate right? Wrong. The opposition will go to great & embarrassing lengths to justify the police shootings people. All I see is people digging their heals in deeper and harder. Evidence be damned.
Sure their are outliers. My grandfather-in-law was a metro cop for 30+ years. He's retired now. He's a hardcore conservative. The last person I'd think would be siding with the minorities & BLM. But low and behold he's disgusted at what the police have become. But again, he's an outlier.
Politics are covered & marketed just like it's ESPN Sportscenter these days. Americans pick a side and cling to it so myopically as if it's their favorite sports team. And we all know how delusional sports fans are. Instant replay clearly will show when a player has fumbled or stepped out of bounds and fans will STILL complain the ref's screwed them.
People still argue the world is flat. Heck, 1 in 5 Americans still think the sun orbits the earth. So when the topic of REDSKINS is brought up, if the "traditionalists" are afraid of change, they are very comfortable with just denying the word's offensive nature. Despite any rhyme or reason.
The truth only seems to matter if it affects us personally.
Those are great looking (and running, I'm told) bikes and I don't think that there will be any issues anywhere because of the brand name. Haven't heard of anything at all from anyone, so I'd be surprised if you actually got any flack whatsoever. The stock logos and things are very solid and tasteful, and that's pretty much what the protests on the other things have been centered on.
If someone wants to have a discussion about whether biases are just human nature and something we need to learn to live with, Im open to that discussion as a good argument could be made that tribalism is a survival mechanism hardwired into the human psyche. And as a result it manifests itself in a million seemingly fucked up ways. But let's please not sit here and squabble over if the biases actually exist or not. That's like debating on if imperialism exists. I'd much rather argue it's moral merits or justifications.
I'm not going to quote the entire post by Jabroni, as there is a lot of different yet related complex topics in it, I just want to touch on this part.
You are right, the squabble should not be black and white (either it fully exists or it doesn't). Unfortunately though, the debate is always that. Conservative folks like myself are quick to debunk it, saying its victimization, it doesn't exist. Leftest folks (not categorizing anyone into this, but I would assume on the scale of left to right ideas you closer to the left) will say it fully exists so deeply ingrained and so prevalent that we (conservatives) are just too ignorant/uneducated enough to realize it. It's the generalization that is the problem.
I did a paper a couple semesters ago on the white privilege. I go to a pretty "liberal" college, and I had a pretty typical (but fair) left leaning teacher. My question wasn't if it exists or not, my question was to what level does it exist, and is something we can say as an absolute across the board privilege like so many propose. Now I'm not saying you are guilty of this, but the way you state your ideas this is the impression I was given. Anyhow, what I found looking through countless studies is that indeed, there are inherit privileges white people have that you can not deny (mostly cultural). But so do women, so do blacks, so do latinos, and etc. In fact, want to know what the one ethnic group that seemed to have very few inherent privileges when looking at culture/systems, but seem to have all the privilege in the world when looking at statistical results only? Asians. Asian Americans kick "privileged" White America's ass for the lack of better terms. Family statistics, economic statistics, academic statistics, you name it and they probably beat everyone in it.
I basically took the initial list/paper authored by Peggy Mcintosh titled the "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack", and went down the list on key privileges and either disproved them, or elaborated on them. For anyone who might not know, Peggy Mcintosh is often credited with the conception of the white privilege "movement" if you will, when her work surfaced around 1989 it hit waves in the world of social justice. It's basically a pretty extensive list of privileges that I, as a white male, have. (see the true origins of white privilege are not the Caucasians themselves, it is directly assigned to the straight white male patriarchy). Some on the list are big such as banks discriminating against blacks (some evidence shown by a study conducted at the University of Iowa that this isn't true) and some are as ridiculous as saying band aids better reflect our skin color and we don't have to worry about that.
Long story short(ish), If you are comfortable with white privilege, than I would expect you to be comfortable in saying there is black privilege, or latino privilege, or women privilege, etc. Because those exist as well. None of them can be generalized as across the board, or higher than another, we all just have privileges in different areas of society. Most leftest would not agree with even uttering the words "black privilege" just as much as ultra-conservatives would not agree with uttering "white privilege". It's a complex web that oddly enough (not really) is more connected to class and economic status than it is skin color. However, in America more than anywhere else, skin color is the always the focus. My point being is that both sides of that argument are not necessarily wrong, but in my opinion they are not necessarily right.
I think it really comes down to your sentence Jabroni: If someone wants to have a discussion about whether biases are just human nature and something we need to learn to live with, Im open to that discussion as a good argument could be made that tribalism is a survival mechanism hardwired into the human psyche.
Add egoism into tribalism, and you get the debate we have. No one wants to admit there is flaws in each others cultures, all the while they only want to focus on the problems of other peoples cultures. Add in the pressure to force acceptance and you have the division we have now.
If you are interest in my paper or some of the points (with sources) that I made, I would gladly throw them into the topic for anyone to criticize or read through. Who knows might inform you on some things, might inform me on some things.
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