Are Indian motorcycles racist?

jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
5/14/2018 1:05pm
Yes.....because they couldn't have changed their stance , just like Candence , just like me. And like a lot of other minorities jumping ship because they are sick of being used like pawns. The truth is....even classic liberal's like myself couldn't get off that sinking ship fast enough.
akillerwombat
Posts
2006
Joined
10/16/2013
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
5/14/2018 1:26pm
KennyT wrote:
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat I think this...
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat

I think this thread anwered my original question. A lot of people see nothing wrong with the Indian head with flowing feathers on a motorcycle, the same people that are okay with Christmas trees, people thanking the lord on the podium, and football teams mascots etc

Others are going to find offense with it just like they do with school plays, standing up for the flag, statues of historical figures, etc

So just like everything in life we all have our different opinions and really we are all allowed to think for ourselves and behave as we want as long as it doesn’t hurt others. Well if I buy a Indian I have no doubt I’m going to offend someone but Im sure I offend people while riding a Harley. I’m going to get a Indian and wear my Washington Redskins jersey And take a ride out to Pala and I’ll let you know how it goes
You do realize that a shit ton of millionaires and billionaires (of all races) rent places as well, right?

Not just black people like you've assumed.
akillerwombat
Posts
2006
Joined
10/16/2013
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
5/14/2018 1:32pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Yes.....because they couldn't have changed their stance , just like Candence , just like me. And like a lot of other minorities jumping ship because they...
Yes.....because they couldn't have changed their stance , just like Candence , just like me. And like a lot of other minorities jumping ship because they are sick of being used like pawns. The truth is....even classic liberal's like myself couldn't get off that sinking ship fast enough.
If I put up a bunch of "fuck Trump" videos which get no traction and over night flip to putting out "I fucking love Trump" videos (while simultaneously deleting my "fuck Trump" videos) because I have found a voice to validate the attention I was seeking I would expect people to question my intensions.

But you, TX, and Kenny have proven numerous times throughout this thread that you only question the intensions of those who differ than the narrative you are clinging to. Despite how ignorant and blatantly racist those narratives happen to be.

That said... "Have fun. I'm out of this conversation."
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/14/2018 1:55pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better...
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better wording .....all you have to do is listen to Candence Owen's. Or Diamond and silk. Proud and strong black women who refuse to play the victim card and use it as an excuse. I've been following Candence for quite a few years....and she's fucking smart , beautiful and strong. Totally goes against what you guys say.....so I'm sure you'll slam her too.

Have fun. I'm out of this conversation.
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........

As for playing the race card, it's funny that you bring up someone who won a judgement over racial harassment incidents. Is this a case of this "race card" you are referring to?

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Racist-threats-case-filed-by-Sta…

It's not surprising that you might pick a couple of folks that work to confirm your desired world view, while ignoring others because you are uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance that occurs.

The Shop

APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/14/2018 1:58pm
KennyT wrote:
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat I think this...
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat

I think this thread anwered my original question. A lot of people see nothing wrong with the Indian head with flowing feathers on a motorcycle, the same people that are okay with Christmas trees, people thanking the lord on the podium, and football teams mascots etc

Others are going to find offense with it just like they do with school plays, standing up for the flag, statues of historical figures, etc

So just like everything in life we all have our different opinions and really we are all allowed to think for ourselves and behave as we want as long as it doesn’t hurt others. Well if I buy a Indian I have no doubt I’m going to offend someone but Im sure I offend people while riding a Harley. I’m going to get a Indian and wear my Washington Redskins jersey And take a ride out to Pala and I’ll let you know how it goes
Again, no one has brought up any actual, credible protests (of any true kind) about Indian Motorcycles. That's a straw man that you keep bringing up, without any reason.

Now if you painted "I (heart) Firewater!" in big letters on the side and ride that thing onto the rez, it might be a different story!
5/14/2018 2:06pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better...
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better wording .....all you have to do is listen to Candence Owen's. Or Diamond and silk. Proud and strong black women who refuse to play the victim card and use it as an excuse. I've been following Candence for quite a few years....and she's fucking smart , beautiful and strong. Totally goes against what you guys say.....so I'm sure you'll slam her too.

Have fun. I'm out of this conversation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........ As...
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........

As for playing the race card, it's funny that you bring up someone who won a judgement over racial harassment incidents. Is this a case of this "race card" you are referring to?

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Racist-threats-case-filed-by-Sta…

It's not surprising that you might pick a couple of folks that work to confirm your desired world view, while ignoring others because you are uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance that occurs.
Can I just make note that I think you have done incredibly well at articulating yourself in this thread.

In many cases you have said what I was thinking but in a very civil manner. Better than I could’ve done it.
KennyT
Posts
4181
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
280th
5/14/2018 2:10pm
KennyT wrote:
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat I think this...
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat

I think this thread anwered my original question. A lot of people see nothing wrong with the Indian head with flowing feathers on a motorcycle, the same people that are okay with Christmas trees, people thanking the lord on the podium, and football teams mascots etc

Others are going to find offense with it just like they do with school plays, standing up for the flag, statues of historical figures, etc

So just like everything in life we all have our different opinions and really we are all allowed to think for ourselves and behave as we want as long as it doesn’t hurt others. Well if I buy a Indian I have no doubt I’m going to offend someone but Im sure I offend people while riding a Harley. I’m going to get a Indian and wear my Washington Redskins jersey And take a ride out to Pala and I’ll let you know how it goes
You do realize that a shit ton of millionaires and billionaires (of all races) rent places as well, right?

Not just black people like you've assumed.
It wasn’t me who assumed it Wombat, don’t try and turn things around after you typed it for all to see.

I personally would have said “it’s you who are paying their mortgage”
See how that works? Making assumptions of all people based on one written word
KennyT
Posts
4181
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
280th
5/14/2018 2:16pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2018 2:18pm
KennyT wrote:
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat I think this...
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat

I think this thread anwered my original question. A lot of people see nothing wrong with the Indian head with flowing feathers on a motorcycle, the same people that are okay with Christmas trees, people thanking the lord on the podium, and football teams mascots etc

Others are going to find offense with it just like they do with school plays, standing up for the flag, statues of historical figures, etc

So just like everything in life we all have our different opinions and really we are all allowed to think for ourselves and behave as we want as long as it doesn’t hurt others. Well if I buy a Indian I have no doubt I’m going to offend someone but Im sure I offend people while riding a Harley. I’m going to get a Indian and wear my Washington Redskins jersey And take a ride out to Pala and I’ll let you know how it goes
APLMAN99 wrote:
Again, no one has brought up any actual, credible protests (of any true kind) about Indian Motorcycles. That's a straw man that you keep bringing up...
Again, no one has brought up any actual, credible protests (of any true kind) about Indian Motorcycles. That's a straw man that you keep bringing up, without any reason.

Now if you painted "I (heart) Firewater!" in big letters on the side and ride that thing onto the rez, it might be a different story!
APLMAN, the bike I am looking at is a Indian Chief and the tank has a pic of a Indian head with full feather head dress. That was the reason to start this thread in the first place. And like I mentioned earlier the Indian bikes are being rated superior to HD, we have 2 good Indian dealerships here in SD and yet I never see them in the road. I was honestly asking if it’s oossible they are not politically correct and I think I am right in some peoples eyes.

I have been following the Redskins mascot and our local HS Indian mascot (which by the way was changed) for a long time. Just recently became interested n buying a Indian Chieftan and wanted to throw this out there. Was not looking to start a heated discussion, just wanted opinions and I seem to have gotten many and I appreciate that.

Good day gentleman!
FLmxer
Posts
6937
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
SouthWest, FL US
Fantasy
898th
5/14/2018 2:39pm
Boo fucking hoo!! Its 2018 get over it. Oh boo hoo this person doesnt like me, i cant go on. Boo hoo i cant be a productive citizen because someone does not like me. Boo fucking hoo. I dont buy any of this social media bullshit. I just went on vacation with my wife and our two close friends. Had the best time. Oh yea they are celebrating thier anniversary. A black man and a spanish guy. All of us are from the hood but didnt let sjw guilt trick us into thinking we are victims or anyone owes us a thing. Only a few cities in the U.S have these guilt stricken souls but they are the loudest on the internet but people are realizing its over the top bullshit, especially the minirities and i know plenty and they say, worry about yourself and stop being a bunch of pussies. Life is short. Make friends and memories, we all struggle. Its how you deal with it. Anyone claiming oppression right now is fucking tricked. Life is fucking simple with opportunity for all. We all have the same minutes in a day, if you choose to waste it, don't blame others. Its up to you to be a victim or not. No one else is to blame. This shit is getting boring. Tissue stock is up. Carry on if you wish.
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/14/2018 3:30pm
KennyT wrote:
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat I think this...
Why do you assume they are renters? Because they are black? So black people can’t afford to buy houses now? Nice one Wombat

I think this thread anwered my original question. A lot of people see nothing wrong with the Indian head with flowing feathers on a motorcycle, the same people that are okay with Christmas trees, people thanking the lord on the podium, and football teams mascots etc

Others are going to find offense with it just like they do with school plays, standing up for the flag, statues of historical figures, etc

So just like everything in life we all have our different opinions and really we are all allowed to think for ourselves and behave as we want as long as it doesn’t hurt others. Well if I buy a Indian I have no doubt I’m going to offend someone but Im sure I offend people while riding a Harley. I’m going to get a Indian and wear my Washington Redskins jersey And take a ride out to Pala and I’ll let you know how it goes
APLMAN99 wrote:
Again, no one has brought up any actual, credible protests (of any true kind) about Indian Motorcycles. That's a straw man that you keep bringing up...
Again, no one has brought up any actual, credible protests (of any true kind) about Indian Motorcycles. That's a straw man that you keep bringing up, without any reason.

Now if you painted "I (heart) Firewater!" in big letters on the side and ride that thing onto the rez, it might be a different story!
KennyT wrote:
APLMAN, the bike I am looking at is a Indian Chief and the tank has a pic of a Indian head with full feather head dress...
APLMAN, the bike I am looking at is a Indian Chief and the tank has a pic of a Indian head with full feather head dress. That was the reason to start this thread in the first place. And like I mentioned earlier the Indian bikes are being rated superior to HD, we have 2 good Indian dealerships here in SD and yet I never see them in the road. I was honestly asking if it’s oossible they are not politically correct and I think I am right in some peoples eyes.

I have been following the Redskins mascot and our local HS Indian mascot (which by the way was changed) for a long time. Just recently became interested n buying a Indian Chieftan and wanted to throw this out there. Was not looking to start a heated discussion, just wanted opinions and I seem to have gotten many and I appreciate that.

Good day gentleman!
Yep, and because it isn't cartoonish nor does it use a slur or other derogatory slang/connotations, I highly doubt you'd have an ounce of issue with anyone rational. That is actually a great example of something being used in a more honorable way, versus being lampooned as a minstrelesque character like Chief Wahoo.

Even with the Redskins issue, the symbol on the helmet really isn't the problem. If they used that symbol along with their ORIGINAL nickname, the Braves, I doubt that there'd be much, if any, pushback from Native Americans or Native American affiliated groups.
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
5/14/2018 3:57pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better...
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better wording .....all you have to do is listen to Candence Owen's. Or Diamond and silk. Proud and strong black women who refuse to play the victim card and use it as an excuse. I've been following Candence for quite a few years....and she's fucking smart , beautiful and strong. Totally goes against what you guys say.....so I'm sure you'll slam her too.

Have fun. I'm out of this conversation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........ As...
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........

As for playing the race card, it's funny that you bring up someone who won a judgement over racial harassment incidents. Is this a case of this "race card" you are referring to?

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Racist-threats-case-filed-by-Sta…

It's not surprising that you might pick a couple of folks that work to confirm your desired world view, while ignoring others because you are uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance that occurs.
I don't care which side of the fence someone is on , but you just made fun of a woman who was racially attacked. And it's because she's on the right side now? Stay classy there Alp.
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/14/2018 4:40pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I don't care which side of the fence someone is on , but you just made fun of a woman who was racially attacked. And it's...
I don't care which side of the fence someone is on , but you just made fun of a woman who was racially attacked. And it's because she's on the right side now? Stay classy there Alp.
Negative. Never made an ounce of fun at her.

Those that casually dismiss racial issues that make them uncomfortable with the “race card” mantra actually do make fun of her and others who’ve suffered racially motivated harassment, however.....
ToolMaker
Posts
6101
Joined
11/19/2011
Location
Escondido, CA US
Fantasy
762nd
5/14/2018 4:43pm
Aplman, That's a good wiki article, but I'd venture to say you didn't read all the citations you block quoted. There's conflicting information in there. And...there...
Aplman,

That's a good wiki article, but I'd venture to say you didn't read all the citations you block quoted. There's conflicting information in there.

And...there are other sources to read besides slanted wiki articles... you do realize who writes those?

Redskin football is not Indian motorcycles.

And...like I said...I live here in an Indian Nation. They/we don't care. . .

There are far more important issued to address here.. how about opiate abuse and overdoses among native Americans??

Let's get Pissed off about that...that's a killer.

This other stuff is silly. . .





APLMAN99 wrote:
You are correct, I didn't read every citation. Feel free to point out those instances that you know are false and your documentation for it, rather...
You are correct, I didn't read every citation. Feel free to point out those instances that you know are false and your documentation for it, rather than your anecdotal "feeling" about what Native groups think.

You might be under the belief that you live in the only area of Native tribes and population. That'd be wrong, obviously. We have tribes/reservations all around us. Colvilles to the north, Yakama and Umatilla to the south, several Puget Sound tribes, Spokane to the east, etc.

And the diversionary tactic of bringing up other issues assumes that people and groups can't pay attention to more than one issue at a time, which is obviously false.

If sports nicknames don't have meaning and don't really matter, why would there be an ounce of resistance to changing them?
"You are correct, I didn't read every citation. Feel free to point out those instances that you know are false and your documentation for it, rather than your anecdotal "feeling" about what Native groups think."

That's a very easy challenge for you to make when you know that the vast majority people in any issue really don't give a rats ass. What is portrayed in the media as "important" is usually just a smaller group of folks with an agenda that make a lot of noise and lists that make it "seem" like it's important to everyone. Most folks are much more interested in going about their daily life and taking care of their family to be bothered with some such rubbish. That's not to say that there are not some who believe they are offended, but it usually is a select few who want attention.
Here in San Diego, the SDSU mascot "Monty Montezuma" has his head on the chopping block about every 10 years.
Like your story, they said the cartoon character was demeaning, so the University compromised. They made it a more authentic character. Which made everyone "proud". The alleged offended people (I'm not sure there are any real Aztecs to be offended) and the school, who said it was to "honor" the Aztecs as they were fierce warriors. But again there is another push to eliminate him.
It's definitely a moving target, what's OK this year is taboo next year. It seems a lot of folks are getting judged for actions/words done/used 30-40-50 years ago by today's standards. That never works out well.
Long story short, I doubt there is much documentation to show how many people don't care, as the the people that don't care were probably out at work and didn't want to be bothered with stupid surveys.
ToolMaker
Posts
6101
Joined
11/19/2011
Location
Escondido, CA US
Fantasy
762nd
5/14/2018 4:50pm
I can't believe there's 4 pages of this thread. How in the world is this even worth debate?
Go through life and try to be respectful of others you meet and you minimize the opportunity
of these type of problems enough that you don't have to worry about shit like this. SMH
TM
5/14/2018 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2018 5:10pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better...
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better wording .....all you have to do is listen to Candence Owen's. Or Diamond and silk. Proud and strong black women who refuse to play the victim card and use it as an excuse. I've been following Candence for quite a few years....and she's fucking smart , beautiful and strong. Totally goes against what you guys say.....so I'm sure you'll slam her too.

Have fun. I'm out of this conversation.
What makes you think I've never heard Ownens speak?

And why would you assume that because the rhetoric is coming from a black woman, it'd sway my opinion?

Diamond & Silk are simply patronizing a customer base. They do not genuinely believe what they are promoting. As is the case with most pundits. And Im guessing you have only heard a few soundbites from Owens as some of her stronger points are in direct conflict with your beliefs.

I dont agree with a lot of what she says. I still follow her on twitter. I follow a LOT of people I dont agree with. I prefer to hear all sides of the debate. That is, if they are genuinely part of the discussion to really debate and not just to agitate.

Part of the problem is that the loudest voices arent actually here to debate and find solutions. They're there to agitate and create more division. Shaun White, Deray, O'Riely, Tomi Lahren, etc. All two sides of the same coin.
TXDirt
Posts
7399
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
5/14/2018 5:09pm
ToolMaker wrote:
I can't believe there's 4 pages of this thread. How in the world is this even worth debate? Go through life and try to be respectful...
I can't believe there's 4 pages of this thread. How in the world is this even worth debate?
Go through life and try to be respectful of others you meet and you minimize the opportunity
of these type of problems enough that you don't have to worry about shit like this. SMH
TM
Agree with you bud. They have come up with a solution to a problem they manufactured to begin with.
Piston Slap
Posts
1639
Joined
7/2/2013
Location
Stillwater, OK US
Fantasy
2410th
5/14/2018 5:30pm
ToolMaker wrote:
I can't believe there's 4 pages of this thread. How in the world is this even worth debate? Go through life and try to be respectful...
I can't believe there's 4 pages of this thread. How in the world is this even worth debate?
Go through life and try to be respectful of others you meet and you minimize the opportunity
of these type of problems enough that you don't have to worry about shit like this. SMH
TM
TXDirt wrote:
Agree with you bud. They have come up with a solution to a problem they manufactured to begin with.
And I agree with this also. . .

Peace

PS
JAFO92
Posts
4257
Joined
3/21/2016
Location
BFE, TX US
5/14/2018 5:42pm
FLmxer wrote:
Boo fucking hoo!! Its 2018 get over it. Oh boo hoo this person doesnt like me, i cant go on. Boo hoo i cant be a...
Boo fucking hoo!! Its 2018 get over it. Oh boo hoo this person doesnt like me, i cant go on. Boo hoo i cant be a productive citizen because someone does not like me. Boo fucking hoo. I dont buy any of this social media bullshit. I just went on vacation with my wife and our two close friends. Had the best time. Oh yea they are celebrating thier anniversary. A black man and a spanish guy. All of us are from the hood but didnt let sjw guilt trick us into thinking we are victims or anyone owes us a thing. Only a few cities in the U.S have these guilt stricken souls but they are the loudest on the internet but people are realizing its over the top bullshit, especially the minirities and i know plenty and they say, worry about yourself and stop being a bunch of pussies. Life is short. Make friends and memories, we all struggle. Its how you deal with it. Anyone claiming oppression right now is fucking tricked. Life is fucking simple with opportunity for all. We all have the same minutes in a day, if you choose to waste it, don't blame others. Its up to you to be a victim or not. No one else is to blame. This shit is getting boring. Tissue stock is up. Carry on if you wish.
^ This
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/14/2018 6:49pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better...
You know.....I'll let you two keep thinking what you want. I'm not good at typing things up very eloquently. My stance put into a lot better wording .....all you have to do is listen to Candence Owen's. Or Diamond and silk. Proud and strong black women who refuse to play the victim card and use it as an excuse. I've been following Candence for quite a few years....and she's fucking smart , beautiful and strong. Totally goes against what you guys say.....so I'm sure you'll slam her too.

Have fun. I'm out of this conversation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........ As...
I don't know of anyone named Candence Owens. Hard to imagine a long time fan getting Candace Owens mixed up with someone named Candence Owens........

As for playing the race card, it's funny that you bring up someone who won a judgement over racial harassment incidents. Is this a case of this "race card" you are referring to?

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Racist-threats-case-filed-by-Sta…

It's not surprising that you might pick a couple of folks that work to confirm your desired world view, while ignoring others because you are uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance that occurs.
Can I just make note that I think you have done incredibly well at articulating yourself in this thread. In many cases you have said what...
Can I just make note that I think you have done incredibly well at articulating yourself in this thread.

In many cases you have said what I was thinking but in a very civil manner. Better than I could’ve done it.
Thanks, because it feels like just the opposite! Based on the opposition to what seems like simple common sense to me, it feels like nothing I've said is being heard in the way I am trying to communicate it..........
jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
5/14/2018 7:23pm
Welp....I'm out of this thread. Throwing in the towel. Like you Alp......my words won't change you or Jabroni. Just like the words from you guys won't change me.

What can I say? I'm set in my ways.

@Kenny.....I hope you get your bike and have a blast on it! I very much doubt your bike will ever " trigger " some snowflake.....but if it does , that's what your middle finger is for.
5/14/2018 7:37pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Thanks, because it feels like just the opposite! Based on the opposition to what seems like simple common sense to me, it feels like nothing I've...
Thanks, because it feels like just the opposite! Based on the opposition to what seems like simple common sense to me, it feels like nothing I've said is being heard in the way I am trying to communicate it..........
You’re not gonna ever be able to fight beliefs with reason/logic. For the simple fact that nobody ever comes to their beliefs using logic/reason.

That’s the core issue on all these topics.
avidchimp
Posts
4550
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
1182nd
5/14/2018 7:42pm
So, this morning I went to pour water into the coffee maker totally forgetting I had already prepped it the night before. Fucking water and coffee grounds went everywhere. It sucked.

The end.
KennyT
Posts
4181
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
280th
5/14/2018 7:55pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2018 8:01pm


This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in person. Not fond of the feathered Indian head on the tank but that’s what this model has and everything else about it is what I’m after. I have a friend that does custom painting on cars/bikes n if I get tired of it he could always repaint the tank. This bike is very similar to my HD street glide but from what I hear is a little superior in overall design/performance. It’s slightly used and several K under the retail price

Anyway thanks for all the input guys. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers...no pun intended
borg
Posts
5748
Joined
12/7/2009
Location
Long Beach, CA US
5/14/2018 8:14pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Thanks, because it feels like just the opposite! Based on the opposition to what seems like simple common sense to me, it feels like nothing I've...
Thanks, because it feels like just the opposite! Based on the opposition to what seems like simple common sense to me, it feels like nothing I've said is being heard in the way I am trying to communicate it..........
You’re not gonna ever be able to fight beliefs with reason/logic. For the simple fact that nobody ever comes to their beliefs using logic/reason. That’s the...
You’re not gonna ever be able to fight beliefs with reason/logic. For the simple fact that nobody ever comes to their beliefs using logic/reason.

That’s the core issue on all these topics.
I somewhat disagree. There are people, many times they are younger, that were injected with beliefs and conclusions that actually change their minds over time. There are also people who are older and set in their ways that can be persuaded in another direction. The key word is persuasion. You don't see much of an effort to persuade on forums like this one. Posts that tend to be more factual than opinionated can have persuasive capability. APPLMAN's posts generally lean in that direction. They have more impact than you might think despite the immediate responses that come from knee jerk self defense.

You are probably right about some people though. No amount of evidence will change their minds.
mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
5/14/2018 8:23pm
KennyT wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/14/261702/s1200_2355FD73_6861_4E05_949B_08FAFA3662AC.jpg[/img] This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in...


This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in person. Not fond of the feathered Indian head on the tank but that’s what this model has and everything else about it is what I’m after. I have a friend that does custom painting on cars/bikes n if I get tired of it he could always repaint the tank. This bike is very similar to my HD street glide but from what I hear is a little superior in overall design/performance. It’s slightly used and several K under the retail price

Anyway thanks for all the input guys. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers...no pun intended
Be careful.man, the snow flakes might get offended by your bike. Nice bike btw
5/15/2018 9:35am
borg wrote:
I somewhat disagree. There are people, many times they are younger, that were injected with beliefs and conclusions that actually change their minds over time. There...
I somewhat disagree. There are people, many times they are younger, that were injected with beliefs and conclusions that actually change their minds over time. There are also people who are older and set in their ways that can be persuaded in another direction. The key word is persuasion. You don't see much of an effort to persuade on forums like this one. Posts that tend to be more factual than opinionated can have persuasive capability. APPLMAN's posts generally lean in that direction. They have more impact than you might think despite the immediate responses that come from knee jerk self defense.

You are probably right about some people though. No amount of evidence will change their minds.
There's no doubt a silent faction of people who are reading these debates and genuinely listening to both sides before drawing their conclusions. Or possibly even being swayed one way or the other based on the arguments being set forth. I consider myself part of that group tbh. I sit back and listen to the debate long before drawing a conclusion and then feeling comfortable partaking in the dust up.

I would argue those people are still the outlier. Which is why it's 2018 and we STILL have disagreements on whether racism even exists or not. I mean, for decades minorities complained about police brutality right? And the opposition said it was just lies, victim mentality, or exaggeration.

The only people that really believed their stories were people who had their own run-ins with law enforcement. In areas where minority populations dont exist, police often find and target a different sub-culture. There's something about the nature of the job that leads to bullying. But I digress...

Then the smart phone was invented. Video evidence pops up daily. Purely factual evidence of unarmed civilians being assaulted and even killed by police. Based on your post, that should have ended all debate right? Wrong. The opposition will go to great & embarrassing lengths to justify the police shootings people. All I see is people digging their heals in deeper and harder. Evidence be damned.

Sure their are outliers. My grandfather-in-law was a metro cop for 30+ years. He's retired now. He's a hardcore conservative. The last person I'd think would be siding with the minorities & BLM. But low and behold he's disgusted at what the police have become. But again, he's an outlier.

Politics are covered & marketed just like it's ESPN Sportscenter these days. Americans pick a side and cling to it so myopically as if it's their favorite sports team. And we all know how delusional sports fans are. Instant replay clearly will show when a player has fumbled or stepped out of bounds and fans will STILL complain the ref's screwed them.

People still argue the world is flat. Heck, 1 in 5 Americans still think the sun orbits the earth. So when the topic of REDSKINS is brought up, if the "traditionalists" are afraid of change, they are very comfortable with just denying the word's offensive nature. Despite any rhyme or reason.

The truth only seems to matter if it affects us personally.
APLMAN99
Posts
10098
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
5/15/2018 10:00am
KennyT wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/14/261702/s1200_2355FD73_6861_4E05_949B_08FAFA3662AC.jpg[/img] This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in...


This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in person. Not fond of the feathered Indian head on the tank but that’s what this model has and everything else about it is what I’m after. I have a friend that does custom painting on cars/bikes n if I get tired of it he could always repaint the tank. This bike is very similar to my HD street glide but from what I hear is a little superior in overall design/performance. It’s slightly used and several K under the retail price

Anyway thanks for all the input guys. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers...no pun intended
I love the lines on the Indians, but wish that the front fender was more of the iconic "full" look. And I can't say that I love the upslope on the bottom of the front fairing, but either of those are mere quibbles.

Those are great looking (and running, I'm told) bikes and I don't think that there will be any issues anywhere because of the brand name. Haven't heard of anything at all from anyone, so I'd be surprised if you actually got any flack whatsoever. The stock logos and things are very solid and tasteful, and that's pretty much what the protests on the other things have been centered on.
TXDirt
Posts
7399
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
5/15/2018 10:25am
There's no doubt a silent faction of people who are reading these debates and genuinely listening to both sides before drawing their conclusions. Or possibly even...
There's no doubt a silent faction of people who are reading these debates and genuinely listening to both sides before drawing their conclusions. Or possibly even being swayed one way or the other based on the arguments being set forth. I consider myself part of that group tbh. I sit back and listen to the debate long before drawing a conclusion and then feeling comfortable partaking in the dust up.

I would argue those people are still the outlier. Which is why it's 2018 and we STILL have disagreements on whether racism even exists or not. I mean, for decades minorities complained about police brutality right? And the opposition said it was just lies, victim mentality, or exaggeration.

The only people that really believed their stories were people who had their own run-ins with law enforcement. In areas where minority populations dont exist, police often find and target a different sub-culture. There's something about the nature of the job that leads to bullying. But I digress...

Then the smart phone was invented. Video evidence pops up daily. Purely factual evidence of unarmed civilians being assaulted and even killed by police. Based on your post, that should have ended all debate right? Wrong. The opposition will go to great & embarrassing lengths to justify the police shootings people. All I see is people digging their heals in deeper and harder. Evidence be damned.

Sure their are outliers. My grandfather-in-law was a metro cop for 30+ years. He's retired now. He's a hardcore conservative. The last person I'd think would be siding with the minorities & BLM. But low and behold he's disgusted at what the police have become. But again, he's an outlier.

Politics are covered & marketed just like it's ESPN Sportscenter these days. Americans pick a side and cling to it so myopically as if it's their favorite sports team. And we all know how delusional sports fans are. Instant replay clearly will show when a player has fumbled or stepped out of bounds and fans will STILL complain the ref's screwed them.

People still argue the world is flat. Heck, 1 in 5 Americans still think the sun orbits the earth. So when the topic of REDSKINS is brought up, if the "traditionalists" are afraid of change, they are very comfortable with just denying the word's offensive nature. Despite any rhyme or reason.

The truth only seems to matter if it affects us personally.
And then police started wearing body cams that show many unarmed and sometimes armed civilians accuse the police of harassing them, assaulting them, etc. Videos come out daily showing how police handle a stop by the books even though they were accused of harassment and assault. Evidence be damned.
KennyT
Posts
4181
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA US
Fantasy
280th
5/15/2018 10:47am
KennyT wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/05/14/261702/s1200_2355FD73_6861_4E05_949B_08FAFA3662AC.jpg[/img] This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in...


This is the bad boy I have my eyes on. Pictures do not do these bikes justice, they are like a work of art in person. Not fond of the feathered Indian head on the tank but that’s what this model has and everything else about it is what I’m after. I have a friend that does custom painting on cars/bikes n if I get tired of it he could always repaint the tank. This bike is very similar to my HD street glide but from what I hear is a little superior in overall design/performance. It’s slightly used and several K under the retail price

Anyway thanks for all the input guys. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers...no pun intended
APLMAN99 wrote:
I love the lines on the Indians, but wish that the front fender was more of the iconic "full" look. And I can't say that I...
I love the lines on the Indians, but wish that the front fender was more of the iconic "full" look. And I can't say that I love the upslope on the bottom of the front fairing, but either of those are mere quibbles.

Those are great looking (and running, I'm told) bikes and I don't think that there will be any issues anywhere because of the brand name. Haven't heard of anything at all from anyone, so I'd be surprised if you actually got any flack whatsoever. The stock logos and things are very solid and tasteful, and that's pretty much what the protests on the other things have been centered on.
APLMAN give the Indian website a look and you will see most of the models have the full fenders. It’s.m a loontgat I’m not used to so Im going to really think it over before making the plunge. I was leaning towards this model because of the front fender but now you have me questioning my taste in a iconic brand. Might need to look a little longer and try to get used to the full fenders
m121c
Posts
182
Joined
5/23/2015
Location
IA US
5/15/2018 10:48am
Lets say for a moment, just for arguments sake, the naysayers such as yourself admit white privilege exists. Is the thought of losing your advantage a scary one?

If someone wants to have a discussion about whether biases are just human nature and something we need to learn to live with, Im open to that discussion as a good argument could be made that tribalism is a survival mechanism hardwired into the human psyche. And as a result it manifests itself in a million seemingly fucked up ways. But let's please not sit here and squabble over if the biases actually exist or not. That's like debating on if imperialism exists. I'd much rather argue it's moral merits or justifications.


I'm not going to quote the entire post by Jabroni, as there is a lot of different yet related complex topics in it, I just want to touch on this part.

You are right, the squabble should not be black and white (either it fully exists or it doesn't). Unfortunately though, the debate is always that. Conservative folks like myself are quick to debunk it, saying its victimization, it doesn't exist. Leftest folks (not categorizing anyone into this, but I would assume on the scale of left to right ideas you closer to the left) will say it fully exists so deeply ingrained and so prevalent that we (conservatives) are just too ignorant/uneducated enough to realize it. It's the generalization that is the problem.

I did a paper a couple semesters ago on the white privilege. I go to a pretty "liberal" college, and I had a pretty typical (but fair) left leaning teacher. My question wasn't if it exists or not, my question was to what level does it exist, and is something we can say as an absolute across the board privilege like so many propose. Now I'm not saying you are guilty of this, but the way you state your ideas this is the impression I was given. Anyhow, what I found looking through countless studies is that indeed, there are inherit privileges white people have that you can not deny (mostly cultural). But so do women, so do blacks, so do latinos, and etc. In fact, want to know what the one ethnic group that seemed to have very few inherent privileges when looking at culture/systems, but seem to have all the privilege in the world when looking at statistical results only? Asians. Asian Americans kick "privileged" White America's ass for the lack of better terms. Family statistics, economic statistics, academic statistics, you name it and they probably beat everyone in it.

I basically took the initial list/paper authored by Peggy Mcintosh titled the "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack", and went down the list on key privileges and either disproved them, or elaborated on them. For anyone who might not know, Peggy Mcintosh is often credited with the conception of the white privilege "movement" if you will, when her work surfaced around 1989 it hit waves in the world of social justice. It's basically a pretty extensive list of privileges that I, as a white male, have. (see the true origins of white privilege are not the Caucasians themselves, it is directly assigned to the straight white male patriarchy). Some on the list are big such as banks discriminating against blacks (some evidence shown by a study conducted at the University of Iowa that this isn't true) and some are as ridiculous as saying band aids better reflect our skin color and we don't have to worry about that.

Long story short(ish), If you are comfortable with white privilege, than I would expect you to be comfortable in saying there is black privilege, or latino privilege, or women privilege, etc. Because those exist as well. None of them can be generalized as across the board, or higher than another, we all just have privileges in different areas of society. Most leftest would not agree with even uttering the words "black privilege" just as much as ultra-conservatives would not agree with uttering "white privilege". It's a complex web that oddly enough (not really) is more connected to class and economic status than it is skin color. However, in America more than anywhere else, skin color is the always the focus. My point being is that both sides of that argument are not necessarily wrong, but in my opinion they are not necessarily right.

I think it really comes down to your sentence Jabroni: If someone wants to have a discussion about whether biases are just human nature and something we need to learn to live with, Im open to that discussion as a good argument could be made that tribalism is a survival mechanism hardwired into the human psyche.

Add egoism into tribalism, and you get the debate we have. No one wants to admit there is flaws in each others cultures, all the while they only want to focus on the problems of other peoples cultures. Add in the pressure to force acceptance and you have the division we have now.

If you are interest in my paper or some of the points (with sources) that I made, I would gladly throw them into the topic for anyone to criticize or read through. Who knows might inform you on some things, might inform me on some things.

Post a reply to: Are Indian motorcycles racist?

The Latest