Any lawyers or armchair lawyers in here ? Hypothetical legal question

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5/20/2020 5:48 PM

Here's the problem. Kids are breaking into condo complexes on my pool route and jumping off the roofs into the pools. It's happened on 3 different accounts now. (All right around the San Clemente pier, it's probably the same surf rats at all 3 places) The complex's are getting worried that if the little hoodlums miscalculate and splat on the deck they're going to be held responsible. One of them is talking about putting an electric pool cover over the pool to discourage the flying squirrel wannabes from launching off their roofs into the pools. So the question is
If all their exterior fences and gates are all up to code, and a kid climb the fence to get in the complex (essentially breaking into the complex), then climbs onto the roof via patio railings, rain gutters or whatever, then launches into the pool but miscalculates and splats on the concrete deck and paralyze's or kills themselves, can the complex be held accountable ?

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5/20/2020 6:00 PM

In a perfect world it would be on the asshole who jumped off the roof and missed the pool, but as you know we live in California. It's never the assholes fault.
😕

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5/20/2020 6:05 PM

avidchimp wrote:

In a perfect world it would be on the asshole who jumped off the roof and missed the pool, but as you know we live in California. It's never the assholes fault.
😕

Yeah that's their concern

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5/20/2020 6:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/20/2020 6:15 PM

sumdood wrote:

Yeah that's their concern

We came home one day a long while ago and some neighbor kids were swimming in our pool, and I pulled out the 12 and said never come back. Their parents knocked on our door complaining that I threatened their kids, I said that if it happened again I would be "falling" off their roof trying to retrieve a ball I "lost" on their roof.

They never came back.

I am as liberal as they come, but don't fuck with me or my stuff. Unfortunately, the lawyers always win in this kinda case.

EDIT: I never pointed it at them, just made it known there was one in the house. wink

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5/20/2020 6:19 PM

Michael (FTE) might have some advice, but I know it's not the good Counselor's area of practice.

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5/20/2020 6:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/20/2020 6:43 PM

If you don’t already have some, I would add some No Trespassing signs. It won’t deter them, but if you end up in court it’s another piece of evidence saying “We tried.” I’d think if the judge sees you’ve taken reasonable steps to deter them with gates, fences, signs, etc it would surely help your case. But then again I’ve heard all the horror stories out of California and how the law breakers somehow turn into victims in court. lol I read a story once where a burglar broke his leg and sued the homeowner he was robbing. Don’t recall if he won, but WTF.

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5/20/2020 6:45 PM

Things to cover ones derrière:

Post signage
Pool cover
Pigeon spikes everywhere
Electric fence around top of building


Sir Dirtiest of Deeds III esq.

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5/20/2020 8:29 PM

Dirtydeeds wrote:

Things to cover ones derrière:

Post signage
Pool cover
Pigeon spikes everywhere
Electric fence around top of building


Sir Dirtiest of Deeds III esq.

I'll find out tomorrow what San Clemente's code says about the automatic "Safety" covers on commercial pools. My guess is it won't be an option because it can be left "1/2 open" and then a kid could under the covered part and not be visible. The first thing the association said was "We only need to cover the deep end" I told them no way that's going to fly. I'll suggest no trespassing signs all over the place. The electric fence on top of the building sounds cool until the little goofballs touch it and fall....

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5/20/2020 8:42 PM

Honestly it really doesn't matter what you do because people would sue a petting zoo if the cow they wanted to take pictures with decided to kick them.

As long as the property owner can prove they weren't negligent in their protection of the the property and have taken every precaution available (can be subjective depending on property) to prevent such an issue from occurring, it will be up to the Court as to whether the lawsuit has merit or not.

If said property owner has gone through and posted signs and code enforced fencing, they should be fine. People have actually lost liability cases because they have a pool cover. In the words of the court, "it inhibited the individuals ability to escape the pool."

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5/20/2020 8:45 PM

FreshTopEnd (FTE) is a lawyer, but we don't see him in the Non-Moto section.

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“Adhering to 1970’s Standards of Political Correctness”

5/20/2020 8:55 PM

Reese95w wrote:

FreshTopEnd (FTE) is a lawyer, but we don't see him in the Non-Moto section.

Oh Michael lurks for sure, but he isn't dumb enough to touch his toes in this water. wink

This area of practice isn't his forte, but I'm sure he would say the same. CYA as much as possible and document all precautions taken to prevent such a thing from happening.

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5/20/2020 9:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2020 5:36 AM

Dig a big pit, put some ashes at the bottom of it and sprinkle some peas around the edge. When they go to take a pea you kick them in the ash hole.

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5/20/2020 9:19 PM

SEE ARE125 wrote:

If you don’t already have some, I would add some No Trespassing signs. It won’t deter them, but if you end up in court it’s another piece of evidence saying “We tried.” I’d think if the judge sees you’ve taken reasonable steps to deter them with gates, fences, signs, etc it would surely help your case. But then again I’ve heard all the horror stories out of California and how the law breakers somehow turn into victims in court. lol I read a story once where a burglar broke his leg and sued the homeowner he was robbing. Don’t recall if he won, but WTF.

Better put it In 7 languages.

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GP740
Since 1987

5/20/2020 9:39 PM

Only in America...

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5/20/2020 10:09 PM

I'm not gonna lie, that sounds kind of funtongue laughing

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5/20/2020 10:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/20/2020 10:14 PM

I guess it's a "Thing" now since that one guy was you tubing himself jumping off a bunch of different stuff. My son was cleaning one at like 6;00am and said he about jumped out of his shorts when some dude fell out of the sky and into the pool he was vacuuming. He said he's going to be in a you tube video going "Hey FUUUCK !! Fuckin what the fuck dude get the fuck outta here you fuckin asshole wtf !!" at full volume. laughing laughing He looked up at the roof to see the jumpers buddy filming him with his cell phone.If anyone finds a video like that please post it, I've looked for it. It should be good for a laugh

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5/21/2020 12:15 AM

kongols wrote:

Only in America...

no, we have dumb shit laws as well,here about 10 years ago a gun shop owner shot a burgler who was trying to rob his store with a knife, they charged the gun shop owner with either attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon as he had a loaded gun in the shop, the jury let him off, but it would have cost a bit,
I presonally think the guy should get a Darwin award for trying to rob a gun store with a knife,

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5/21/2020 12:45 PM

Sumdood, you already know the answer. If the property puts a pool cover on and these idiots don't see it... Then break their legs on it when they jump... Then drown...
You can see where I'm going with this.
The best legal action would be to sell the property, give all the proceeds to the first illegal alien encountered, and apologize profusely for having the gall to run a business in this state.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

5/21/2020 12:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2020 12:56 PM

Falcon wrote:

Sumdood, you already know the answer. If the property puts a pool cover on and these idiots don't see it... Then break their legs on it when they jump... Then drown...
You can see where I'm going with this.
The best legal action would be to sell the property, give all the proceeds to the first illegal alien encountered, and apologize profusely for having the gall to run a business in this state.

Hahahahahahaha and then head east, or south, or west, or anywhere, just pick a direction and don't stop until you cross a State line laughing laughing laughing

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5/21/2020 5:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2020 5:39 PM

Google "Attractive nuisance doctrine"

This does not totally apply to your situation but there are circumstances where property owners can be liable for people trespassing on their property and being injured.

BTW I am no lawyer...

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5/21/2020 8:17 PM

When you say "Electric Pool Cover" are we talking high Voltage like an Electric fence or a Motorized Pool Cover.

Because if you install the High Voltage one I suggest Cameras because I want to see that shit.

Now that I mentioned Cameras, maybe some game cameras would help figure out who and when it's happening.

Also filing a complaint with the PD might be a good cover your ass move too.

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5/22/2020 12:38 AM

SEE ARE125 wrote:

If you don’t already have some, I would add some No Trespassing signs. It won’t deter them, but if you end up in court it’s another piece of evidence saying “We tried.” I’d think if the judge sees you’ve taken reasonable steps to deter them with gates, fences, signs, etc it would surely help your case. But then again I’ve heard all the horror stories out of California and how the law breakers somehow turn into victims in court. lol I read a story once where a burglar broke his leg and sued the homeowner he was robbing. Don’t recall if he won, but WTF.

From a risk management perspective, I totally agree with this post. Definitely add signs, etc. And to add to the horror stories of California, my uncle works at a grocery store and some guy stole a liquor bottle and passed away after being chased by store employees and now the thief’s family is seeing the store’s owner...

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Vital Mx is not safe...

5/22/2020 12:42 AM

KUSI in San Diego used to have a reporter by the name of Michael Turko who would cover stories like these to raise public awareness. Maybe San Clemente/Orange County has a similar media option?

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Vital Mx is not safe...

5/22/2020 8:56 AM

In California, the idiots always win

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

5/22/2020 9:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2020 9:30 AM

My advice would be to give no advice. Tell your customer liability protection is not your company's area of expertise and that they really need to consult an attorney. If you do give them advise, and shit still goes wrong, welcome to the lawsuit.

I will say if someone has a known hazard on their property and they do nothing, they have a problem. In certain situations it seems harsh and wrong, but that's why we pay for insurance.

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5/22/2020 9:55 AM

Remember the burglar that fell through the skylight, fell onto the counter where there were knives ... sued because he got cut up.
Someone correct me but I think he won.

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5/22/2020 10:44 AM

KMC440 wrote:

Remember the burglar that fell through the skylight, fell onto the counter where there were knives ... sued because he got cut up.
Someone correct me but I think he won.

Also, never shoot an intruder in the back. whistling

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5/23/2020 8:28 PM

So if I’m robbing a house...walk backwards. Got it.

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GP740
Since 1987

5/24/2020 1:48 PM

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

So if I’m robbing a house...walk backwards. Got it.

Wouldn't help you here.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

5/24/2020 2:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2020 8:56 PM

sumdood wrote:

I guess it's a "Thing" now since that one guy was you tubing himself jumping off a bunch of different stuff. My son was cleaning one at like 6;00am and said he about jumped out of his shorts when some dude fell out of the sky and into the pool he was vacuuming. He said he's going to be in a you tube video going "Hey FUUUCK !! Fuckin what the fuck dude get the fuck outta here you fuckin asshole wtf !!" at full volume. laughing laughing He looked up at the roof to see the jumpers buddy filming him with his cell phone.If anyone finds a video like that please post it, I've looked for it. It should be good for a laugh

I fell thru the skylight of a mall in 1985. I had to pay a lot of lawyer fees to stay out of jail and to plea it down to a misdemeanor. I could have sued the mall?

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