Air Force Pilot and F-22 Fighter Missing

SEEMEFIRST
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11/17/2010 10:37am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 11:09pm
Not good...

An Air Force pilot and his stealth fighter assigned to Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska went missing Tuesday evening. The F-22 Raptor was on a routine training mission when it lost contact with air traffic control at 7:40 p.m. Alaska time.

A search and rescue mission is underway.

The pilot and his $143 million dollar aircraft fly out of the the 3rd Wing at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

The F-22 is the military's newest and most technologically advanced fighter. It's a one-man, stealth supercruiser designed for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The Air Force has 137 of them in its fleet.

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SteveS
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11/17/2010 10:43am
Defected to Russia?
Nerd
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11/17/2010 11:00am
They were having trouble with those things flying in the rain before, and also trouble with extreme cold, so I'm betting it was a problem with the aircraft.

The Shop

croom mx
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11/17/2010 12:45pm
The problem with aircraft like those is when they crash your out $143 million. Hopefully the pilot is found and OK.
J.F.S
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11/17/2010 2:16pm
Pilot forgot to pray before take off?
Void Main
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11/17/2010 4:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2010 4:58pm
I believe Denali National Park is where Palin did much of that reality show. Pretty country, hope the pilot got out.
CR250Rider
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11/17/2010 5:12pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2010 5:18pm
Nerd wrote:
They were having trouble with those things flying in the rain before, and also trouble with extreme cold, so I'm betting it was a problem with...
They were having trouble with those things flying in the rain before, and also trouble with extreme cold, so I'm betting it was a problem with the aircraft.
didn't hear that
did see some flight control software errors.
Void Main
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11/17/2010 5:22pm
Damn, that dude shoulda punched.
ocscottie
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11/17/2010 5:24pm
Looked like he hit a mid-air whoop section.
Blake
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11/17/2010 5:29pm
Extreme Cold?

When its 110 on the desert floor, at 40,000 feet, its about 40-60 Below zero. I think most jets are designed for the cold.



Nerd
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11/18/2010 5:13pm
Blake wrote:
Extreme Cold?

When its 110 on the desert floor, at 40,000 feet, its about 40-60 Below zero. I think most jets are designed for the cold.



It's all relative, dude. Any word on this plane yet besides just finding it?
CR250Rider
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11/18/2010 5:20pm
"They said it looked like a crater," said Maj. Guy Hayes with the Guard's Rescue Coordination Center.

here was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. Searchers found no sign of the pilot at the crash site.

The searchers were on the ground at the site from 1 or 2 p.m. until dark.
Nerd
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11/18/2010 5:25pm
I would imagine that a plane falling from the sky with or without a pilot could easily "look like a crater". Hopefully, the black box survived and they can tell why it crashed.
Sully
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11/18/2010 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2010 5:34pm
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. "
No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't. What other indications do they need?
zjbell
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11/18/2010 5:39pm
Sully wrote:
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. " No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't...
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. "
No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't. What other indications do they need?
It's not like a car crash, when big-fast-airplanes bite the dust they vaporise.
CamP
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11/18/2010 5:39pm
Sully wrote:
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. " No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't...
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. "
No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't. What other indications do they need?
It's hard to make out things like seats when a crashing jet fighter plows a crater into the ground.
zjbell
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11/18/2010 5:42pm
Blake wrote:
Extreme Cold?

When its 110 on the desert floor, at 40,000 feet, its about 40-60 Below zero. I think most jets are designed for the cold.



Extreme cold poses all sorts of operational challenges, even if the airplane is designed to withstand it.
Void Main
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11/18/2010 5:47pm
I've actually had to investigate a few of those "craters". Usually you find little pieces of meat which would indicate one way or the other.
SEEMEFIRST
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11/18/2010 7:20pm
Sully wrote:
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. " No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't...
"There was no indication whether the pilot ejected, a military spokesman said. "
No indication whether he ejected? Either the seat was there or it wasn't. What other indications do they need?
zjbell wrote:
It's not like a car crash, when big-fast-airplanes bite the dust they vaporise.
...And composite is worse in that regard than aluminum A/Cs.
It doesn't sound good.
Rooster
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11/18/2010 7:56pm
zjbell wrote:
Extreme cold poses all sorts of operational challenges, even if the airplane is designed to withstand it.
Air friction at speed tends to warm the outer skin though doesn't it?
SEEMEFIRST
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11/18/2010 8:01pm
zjbell wrote:
Extreme cold poses all sorts of operational challenges, even if the airplane is designed to withstand it.
Rooster wrote:
Air friction at speed tends to warm the outer skin though doesn't it?
Extreme speed does, but he was not likely pushing those extremes while buzzing the mountains.
As I recall, rain was the big factor early on. if they haven't worked that out yet I'd be very surprised.
zjbell
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11/18/2010 10:04pm
Like SMF said, during crazy fast speeds...and in thick air.

But at a normal econ cruise it can actually have the opposite effect, aerodynamic cooling. I don't know what de or anti ice capabilities a fighter jet has, but with low temps like that any visible moisture (clouds) will instantly stick to the airframe can cause contamination and change the basic shape of the wing, add weight, freeze up control surfaces, gear doors, indication... Not saying that's what happened here, but it's something to think about. Fuel can freeze too, if there's water contamination in the fuel it can freeze first and cause blockages. Hyd. systems can get sluggish, engines can operate at lower than optimum temperature, the pitot static system can get iced up and provide extremely disorienting information.


But, yeah. Airplanes don't like the cold, and with a super high tech composite airplane like the F22 I can only see the problems compounded. It could've been anything but with the issues that airplane has had I wouldn't rule out even the simplest of problems.
SEEMEFIRST
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11/18/2010 10:15pm
RGR that. As trick as those are, he might not have had a chance. I hope that's not the case.
SEEMEFIRST
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11/18/2010 10:19pm
Void Main wrote:
Damn, that dude shoulda punched.
Naw, just hold her head up, and put the spurs to her....

J/K, that A/C was acting on it's own, that guy kicked it's computers ass! Cat saved a bunch of stuff.
SEEMEFIRST
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11/18/2010 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2010 10:44pm
Ye freekin haw...



This is an example of a 12,000 ft maneuver attempted at 11,500'. Same shit happened at the fighter factory where I worked, and a weekend warrior got to fly a 16 into CAFB and lawn darted between the runways... He didn't get out.
Nerd
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11/18/2010 11:39pm
Void Main wrote:
Damn, that dude shoulda punched.
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Naw, just hold her head up, and put the spurs to her.... J/K, that A/C was acting on it's own, that guy kicked it's computers ass...
Naw, just hold her head up, and put the spurs to her....

J/K, that A/C was acting on it's own, that guy kicked it's computers ass! Cat saved a bunch of stuff.
That video is PIO - Pilot Induced Oscillation. Essentially, it's when the pilot overcorrects, then overcorrects his overcorrection, then does it again, etc.

It's not that the aircraft or the computer were at fault. The way to fix it, actually, is to let go of the controls altogether (which is easier if you're not 10' off the ground, of course) and let the plane straighten out on its own.

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