yamaha Japan yzf 450 2020 - NEW HEAD

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4/17/2019 4:24 AM

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4/17/2019 4:58 AM

They need to scrap the air box set up and tilted back head/cylinder already.

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4/17/2019 5:10 AM

Shock looks different too?

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4/17/2019 5:13 AM

Finger Follower

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4/17/2019 5:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2019 5:23 AM

The welding on the frame looks slightly different (cleaner) too?

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4/17/2019 5:18 AM

You can see two bolts on the right side of the cylinder head. Those are the shafts of the finger followers.
The changes are very similar to Kawi's new 450 head design.

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4/17/2019 5:21 AM

DB97 wrote:

Shock looks different too?

Both designs have been around for some time. One has a tilted resovoir to keep it away from the heat of header pipe. The internals should be the same.

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4/17/2019 5:26 AM

Here's the Kawi head for comparison:
Photo

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4/17/2019 5:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2019 5:29 AM

No hydro clutchsad That is probably the only thing i miss on my 2019 450.

That alu tank wont probably come on the stock 2020 bikes?

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4/17/2019 5:31 AM

DB97 wrote:

Shock looks different too?

#434 wrote:

Both designs have been around for some time. One has a tilted resovoir to keep it away from the heat of header pipe. The internals should be the same.

Gotcha not a Yamaha guy thanks.

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4/17/2019 5:32 AM

Please please get a designer in to make it look good and get rid of the silly seat design

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4/17/2019 6:38 AM

Guess I'm buying a 2020 then w00t

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4/17/2019 6:41 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2019 6:42 AM

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

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4/17/2019 6:41 AM

Motofinne wrote:

No hydro clutchsad That is probably the only thing i miss on my 2019 450.

That alu tank wont probably come on the stock 2020 bikes?

No doubt, I love my new Yamaha, but a hydraulic clutch would make it perfect!

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4/17/2019 6:47 AM

cody41 wrote:

They need to scrap the air box set up and tilted back head/cylinder already.

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

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Currently lurking

4/17/2019 7:10 AM

ML512 wrote:

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

Michael, a bit off topic, but any word on the RMZ450 coming with E-Start for 2020?

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

4/17/2019 7:18 AM

ML512 wrote:

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Michael, a bit off topic, but any word on the RMZ450 coming with E-Start for 2020?

No Estart but I think they are coming out with a revolutionary new kick start lever............polished

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4/17/2019 7:20 AM

ML512 wrote:

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Michael, a bit off topic, but any word on the RMZ450 coming with E-Start for 2020?

motox331 wrote:

No Estart but I think they are coming out with a revolutionary new kick start lever............polished

See that's why I'm asking. Our dealer told us it's coming with E-start, but others are saying it's not

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

4/17/2019 7:33 AM

ML512 wrote:

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Michael, a bit off topic, but any word on the RMZ450 coming with E-Start for 2020?

When I asked like 16 months ago the answer I got seemed more like '21. But maybe they've sped it up if it's just a case redesign.

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4/17/2019 7:41 AM

#434 wrote:

Here's the Kawi head for comparison:
Photo

So how is lash adjusted ?

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Violence You Can Believe In

4/17/2019 8:07 AM

#434 wrote:

Here's the Kawi head for comparison:
Photo

usp4u wrote:

So how is lash adjusted ?

Shims between the valve and the finger follower.

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4/17/2019 8:08 AM

ML512 wrote:

Yamaha has regularly done a mid-generation change, this would be year 3 of 4 or year 3 of 5 for this model’s generation. The shock looks normal on that bike, the second bike pictured had the leaned back reservoir that KYB produced for the Japan team a few years ago. I think the Rinaldi team used it once season too.

Although, both bikes feature a production sized adjuster that is the high/low comp and low speed rebound. Which the Yamaha has yet to come with on production.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Michael, a bit off topic, but any word on the RMZ450 coming with E-Start for 2020?

ML512 wrote:

When I asked like 16 months ago the answer I got seemed more like '21. But maybe they've sped it up if it's just a case redesign.

Pretty sure the cases already exist

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

4/17/2019 9:10 AM

cody41 wrote:

They need to scrap the air box set up and tilted back head/cylinder already.

-espionage- wrote:

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

I was wondering that too.
Cody, if it's a serious comment, care to explain why?

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4/17/2019 9:29 AM

#434 wrote:

Shims between the valve and the finger follower.

Okay, so they haven't really removed the number of parts?

The rocker replaces the old bucket/tappet. Yet there is now a follower that is pivoting on a shaft that was previously unnecessary.

Now, I can see that eliminating the bucket saves some reciprocating valvetrain weight, and that is always a good thing, BUT.........that is almost ALWAYS done to:

-improve valvetrain stability (not really an issue with the previous design)
-allow lower spring pressures
-continue using high spring pressures allowing for greater RPM ceiling (how much higher does a 450 need to rev?)

What I'm seeing is:
-No reduction in number of parts
-FOUR brand new wear surfaces that didn't exist before (the follower axles)
-Increase in frictional losses
-Narrower loading surface (I'll bet the cam lobes and the follower are narrower than traditional lobe/bucket, more aggressive cam profiles and faster ramps with less loading surface)
-Static wear patterns (cam and follower will wear together likely demanding all parts be replaced during a cam change


I'm sure all of these are unfounded. But the engine builder in me fails to see the "breakthrough" in this exercise.

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Violence You Can Believe In

4/17/2019 10:03 AM

Head looks more like KTM now as its lower and have higher cover on top. I dont see Japan bikes to match KTM weights anytime soon but all bikes look more and more KTM.

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4/17/2019 10:28 AM

Head is a spitting image of the 19 KX450

Photo

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4/17/2019 10:41 AM

cody41 wrote:

They need to scrap the air box set up and tilted back head/cylinder already.

-espionage- wrote:

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

cwtoyota wrote:

I was wondering that too.
Cody, if it's a serious comment, care to explain why?

If he'd just mentioned the tilted back head it could be sarcasm. But the airbox design is atrocious, so I suspect he's serious about both.

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4/17/2019 10:47 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2019 10:48 AM

usp4u wrote:

So how is lash adjusted ?

#434 wrote:

Shims between the valve and the finger follower.

usp4u wrote:

Okay, so they haven't really removed the number of parts?

The rocker replaces the old bucket/tappet. Yet there is now a follower that is pivoting on a shaft that was previously unnecessary.

Now, I can see that eliminating the bucket saves some reciprocating valvetrain weight, and that is always a good thing, BUT.........that is almost ALWAYS done to:

-improve valvetrain stability (not really an issue with the previous design)
-allow lower spring pressures
-continue using high spring pressures allowing for greater RPM ceiling (how much higher does a 450 need to rev?)

What I'm seeing is:
-No reduction in number of parts
-FOUR brand new wear surfaces that didn't exist before (the follower axles)
-Increase in frictional losses
-Narrower loading surface (I'll bet the cam lobes and the follower are narrower than traditional lobe/bucket, more aggressive cam profiles and faster ramps with less loading surface)
-Static wear patterns (cam and follower will wear together likely demanding all parts be replaced during a cam change


I'm sure all of these are unfounded. But the engine builder in me fails to see the "breakthrough" in this exercise.

I was thinking the same. Shim under bucket might weigh slightly more, but it’s dirt-simple and the only “moving” surface is where the cam lobe touches the bucket...

Obviously I’m missing something as the people behind this have far more expertise than I do, but it still has me scratching my head.

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4/17/2019 10:57 AM

from my knowledge the idea behind finger followers is more radical cam profiles since the movement of the finger follower exacerbates the profile of the cam. first made popular by motogp teams i believe.

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4/17/2019 11:43 AM

usp4u wrote:

So how is lash adjusted ?

#434 wrote:

Shims between the valve and the finger follower.

usp4u wrote:

Okay, so they haven't really removed the number of parts?

The rocker replaces the old bucket/tappet. Yet there is now a follower that is pivoting on a shaft that was previously unnecessary.

Now, I can see that eliminating the bucket saves some reciprocating valvetrain weight, and that is always a good thing, BUT.........that is almost ALWAYS done to:

-improve valvetrain stability (not really an issue with the previous design)
-allow lower spring pressures
-continue using high spring pressures allowing for greater RPM ceiling (how much higher does a 450 need to rev?)

What I'm seeing is:
-No reduction in number of parts
-FOUR brand new wear surfaces that didn't exist before (the follower axles)
-Increase in frictional losses
-Narrower loading surface (I'll bet the cam lobes and the follower are narrower than traditional lobe/bucket, more aggressive cam profiles and faster ramps with less loading surface)
-Static wear patterns (cam and follower will wear together likely demanding all parts be replaced during a cam change


I'm sure all of these are unfounded. But the engine builder in me fails to see the "breakthrough" in this exercise.

That finger allows the cam to push against a surface shaped differently than a flat bucket. This allows more aggressive and different Cam profiles as the cam pushes on the top of the finger which is curved rather than a flat bucket on top of the spring.

IMO that is the advantage as well as those other things you mentioned above.

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