why a lot of you don't like the LL's track

hillbilly
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Afton, TN US
Edited Date/Time 8/6/2014 8:52am
You are spoiled

With tracks that resemble supercross track. You want a track that FLOWS .

Turn,double double,turn ,single to table (dont leave your bars loose),turn,step up,turn,blah blah.

And,whoops that aren't to tall not to close together,so you're lack of skill still lets you skim like they aren't there.

You throw down 200 bucks to enter the gate,enter the class with 9 other guys in it,do your 4 laps and go home,

Never taking off with 39 others good riders,and god forbid a rut appears on a jump face.

When you or your kid tries to transition to pro or the LLs program and sees what moto really is ,you or he can't because of always riding tracks the FLOW or have ruts and knots on the jump face.

Spoiled,like most of society is these days.
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ehr400
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8/5/2014 8:42am
Probably because most of the people bitching hardly ride bro.
8/5/2014 8:42am
Naw.

I didn't like it because it felt like a backyard mini SX track. It's perfect for an 85, but for a 250f it sucked.



Although the layout did look better this year after the removal of two big rhythm sections:

https://youtu.be/lAjtHNkpu0E
Gringoe
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8/5/2014 9:25am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 9:27am
Sometimes when you post stuff like this I wonder why everybody treats you like you aren't a loon ball.

Your post couldn't be more misleading, and was more of a rant about a type of rider then the actual track.

And since you felt the need to make a new thread, I'll throw this in. You can make a track flow better and have more options without making huge triples double rhythm sections whoops whatever the hell you are talking about. It doesn't need a hundred new jumps. That's not what anyone wants. Did you watch last 450a Moto? Renzland was on hampshires wheel for most of the race, yet there was only probably 1 or maybe 2 places where any kind of an alternate line was possible. There is not a single technical obstacle on the race track anymore besides the Ten Commandments which have shrunk to about half the size they use to be in the last couple years.

Remember the table single or table triple in the back? Or the section of singles after the finish line? Or how gnarly the commandments were...

Every jump has just gotten so small over the last 5 years or so and the hardest part of the track is now a sandy sweeper.. It's one lined for two equally matched riders

The Shop

RPM68
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8/5/2014 9:28am
hillbilly wrote:
You are spoiled With tracks that resemble supercross track. You want a track that FLOWS . Turn,double double,turn ,single to table (dont leave your bars loose),turn,step...
You are spoiled

With tracks that resemble supercross track. You want a track that FLOWS .

Turn,double double,turn ,single to table (dont leave your bars loose),turn,step up,turn,blah blah.

And,whoops that aren't to tall not to close together,so you're lack of skill still lets you skim like they aren't there.

You throw down 200 bucks to enter the gate,enter the class with 9 other guys in it,do your 4 laps and go home,

Never taking off with 39 others good riders,and god forbid a rut appears on a jump face.

When you or your kid tries to transition to pro or the LLs program and sees what moto really is ,you or he can't because of always riding tracks the FLOW or have ruts and knots on the jump face.

Spoiled,like most of society is these days.
I agree, I am spoiled with tracks, but im not trying to be the next hero. I went for the experience, which was sick. I rode like a douche b/c I ride sand, didn't travel to tracks that are hard packed, and once again; I am spoiled with 3 Palms being 2 miles down the road.
Zesiger 112
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8/5/2014 9:30am
I always laugh when I think about local vs ll track. Go to my local track there are jumps everywhere. Everyone is launching these 120ft jumps even the d class riders (even though they miss the corner after and run off the track) it's hilarious. But go to Loretta's and there are no massive jumps. There is like 1 big table top. I personally don't like big jumps, that's why I ride a local sand track no one goes to, because the jumps are more distance speed type jumps rather than high launcher types. And it gets rough, it makes me ride the whole track instead of just the jumps.
Ardfarkl
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8/5/2014 9:35am
I did not like it because I was not there!
Ardfarkl
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8/5/2014 9:35am
I hate all millionaires until I become one too!
MXER231
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Brandon, MS US
8/5/2014 9:54am
I would agree that LL has become let's say less technical over the years. It's faster now and has sections that are not as challenging. Its been since 2009 that I raced there but I was in attendance last year. I remember in the 90's and earlys 2000's how technical it was. Seems like now that people want speed and big jumps more, but that doesnt show who the best riders are nor make you a better rider. When you become a top B rider or top mini rider you will find out that jumping is very easy and everyone does it. I watched a lot of the racing on RacerTV and lots of riders on the podium talked about how good the track was. I think the place is perfect for the sport. Great MX vacation for the whole family. Take the race away from the Ranch and in a few years it becomes non existent like all the other am nationals.
Highsider
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8/5/2014 9:59am
"...single to table (dont leave your bars loose)"

Good one, billyhill.
sc961
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8/5/2014 10:00am
Was there a lot of talk about people not liking the track?

It's a tough bastard to go fast on for 20 minutes. Thought I trained hard for the first trip there back in 87.. Been back a few more times and still find it difficult to be in good enough shape to go hard for the entire moto.

It is the best moto vacation out there. The weather gods were kind this year..
Dirty Mike
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8/5/2014 10:04am
Leave it to people on a forum to bitch about one of the greatest moto experiences ever. The people that are bitching are the people who are sitting behind a computer and pry haven't ridden a dirtbike in 5 years.

Do you hear the riders bitching? Do you hear family members who were there bitching? NO you don't.

Lorretta's was once again a success, provided many in the moto community life long memories and stories. I get that a lot of people like to complain and bitch and moan around this place, and it doesn't really bother me. But c'mon, bitching about the LL track, give me a break. Get off your high horse and go bitch about how you can't afford to ride your 06 two stroke because track fees are too high.
8/5/2014 10:42am
Exactly^ if the track or any different, in either direction, people would bitch. Didn't someone make a thread calling this LL track the best one ever? They have to make the track rideable for someone on a 50 and a 450.
DC
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8/5/2014 11:00am
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot of levels of age and experience, and everything from Shaft Drive to 450 Pro Sport... On the same track. On the same day. Throughout the same week. Everybody deserves a championship experience, and we try to give it to them.

When people do complain, I always find it useful to ask them what place they got. Gringoe? Triple Five?

Most of the riders who were there sure seemed to like the track and the challenges it presented, and I thought the racing was pretty damn exciting, even if Renzland could not pass Hampshire. (Actually, since Hampshire won all six motos, maybe he was just that little fraction faster and did a good job of holding him off?)

Regardless, we will try harder next year. And the next year...

DC
MX Sports
Gringoe
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8/5/2014 11:37am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 11:38am
DC wrote:
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot...
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot of levels of age and experience, and everything from Shaft Drive to 450 Pro Sport... On the same track. On the same day. Throughout the same week. Everybody deserves a championship experience, and we try to give it to them.

When people do complain, I always find it useful to ask them what place they got. Gringoe? Triple Five?

Most of the riders who were there sure seemed to like the track and the challenges it presented, and I thought the racing was pretty damn exciting, even if Renzland could not pass Hampshire. (Actually, since Hampshire won all six motos, maybe he was just that little fraction faster and did a good job of holding him off?)

Regardless, we will try harder next year. And the next year...

DC
MX Sports
Don't get the wrong impression of my post, I've also said that you guys have made the racing surface better every year. My only complaint at all is the lack of options around the track as far as obstacles go. I understand it is brutally rough and we can't have booters like the old big table.

You'd be surprised at my finishes. I have hardware from Loretta's and am no stranger to the ranch and have had good years and bad years.

***no I'm not a delusional physco person trying to live a secret life on the internet motocross board by acting like I'm fast. Just trying to give my opinion, because hillbilly keeps wanting to talk about how amazing it looks.
Darryl916
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8/5/2014 11:39am
DC wrote:
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot...
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot of levels of age and experience, and everything from Shaft Drive to 450 Pro Sport... On the same track. On the same day. Throughout the same week. Everybody deserves a championship experience, and we try to give it to them.

When people do complain, I always find it useful to ask them what place they got. Gringoe? Triple Five?

Most of the riders who were there sure seemed to like the track and the challenges it presented, and I thought the racing was pretty damn exciting, even if Renzland could not pass Hampshire. (Actually, since Hampshire won all six motos, maybe he was just that little fraction faster and did a good job of holding him off?)

Regardless, we will try harder next year. And the next year...

DC
MX Sports
My feelings are in line with yours. I bet It's a damn hard task to make a track suitable for such a wide spectrum of ages, ability, and equipment. I think LL's does the best job at it in the world. I dream to make it there one day!
The Rock
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8/5/2014 12:18pm
I always laugh when I think about local vs ll track. Go to my local track there are jumps everywhere. Everyone is launching these 120ft jumps...
I always laugh when I think about local vs ll track. Go to my local track there are jumps everywhere. Everyone is launching these 120ft jumps even the d class riders (even though they miss the corner after and run off the track) it's hilarious. But go to Loretta's and there are no massive jumps. There is like 1 big table top. I personally don't like big jumps, that's why I ride a local sand track no one goes to, because the jumps are more distance speed type jumps rather than high launcher types. And it gets rough, it makes me ride the whole track instead of just the jumps.
I hope local tracks will follow LL lead with no massive jumps. It was great reading the two rhythm sections were taken out as well as I don't recall any rhythm sections at Mammoth or Carlsbad either. All in all sounds like LL is becoming more MX and less SX/MX.

For those of you that go every year is that perception correct or am I just projecting what I would like to see?
8/5/2014 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 12:23pm
DC wrote:
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot...
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot of levels of age and experience, and everything from Shaft Drive to 450 Pro Sport... On the same track. On the same day. Throughout the same week. Everybody deserves a championship experience, and we try to give it to them.

When people do complain, I always find it useful to ask them what place they got. Gringoe? Triple Five?

Most of the riders who were there sure seemed to like the track and the challenges it presented, and I thought the racing was pretty damn exciting, even if Renzland could not pass Hampshire. (Actually, since Hampshire won all six motos, maybe he was just that little fraction faster and did a good job of holding him off?)

Regardless, we will try harder next year. And the next year...

DC
MX Sports
I didn't do well. Crashed a bunch.

29th in 250 B.

Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whittney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.
defeatist45
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Raleigh, NC US
8/5/2014 12:25pm
I always laugh when I think about local vs ll track. Go to my local track there are jumps everywhere. Everyone is launching these 120ft jumps...
I always laugh when I think about local vs ll track. Go to my local track there are jumps everywhere. Everyone is launching these 120ft jumps even the d class riders (even though they miss the corner after and run off the track) it's hilarious. But go to Loretta's and there are no massive jumps. There is like 1 big table top. I personally don't like big jumps, that's why I ride a local sand track no one goes to, because the jumps are more distance speed type jumps rather than high launcher types. And it gets rough, it makes me ride the whole track instead of just the jumps.
what track is this you speak of?
hillbilly
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8/5/2014 12:28pm
Gringoe wrote:
Sometimes when you post stuff like this I wonder why everybody treats you like you aren't a loon ball. Your post couldn't be more misleading, and...
Sometimes when you post stuff like this I wonder why everybody treats you like you aren't a loon ball.

Your post couldn't be more misleading, and was more of a rant about a type of rider then the actual track.

And since you felt the need to make a new thread, I'll throw this in. You can make a track flow better and have more options without making huge triples double rhythm sections whoops whatever the hell you are talking about. It doesn't need a hundred new jumps. That's not what anyone wants. Did you watch last 450a Moto? Renzland was on hampshires wheel for most of the race, yet there was only probably 1 or maybe 2 places where any kind of an alternate line was possible. There is not a single technical obstacle on the race track anymore besides the Ten Commandments which have shrunk to about half the size they use to be in the last couple years.

Remember the table single or table triple in the back? Or the section of singles after the finish line? Or how gnarly the commandments were...

Every jump has just gotten so small over the last 5 years or so and the hardest part of the track is now a sandy sweeper.. It's one lined for two equally matched riders
I know reading comprehension isn't your fault,tenured teachers and all.

Yes,I remember those sections.

I remember the triple out of the far back corner,hit it 2nd lap of practice,by my moto it was so jacked up one could barely double it.

Moon crater holes and chop so bad I was in fear of getting a flat from running over my shock cuz I knew it musta fell off somewhere on the previous lap.

The singles that lead into the table in the middle would leave your legs burning .

It is amazing that a week of full gate starts have very few serious injuries.
DC
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8/5/2014 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 12:33pm
Gringoe, Triple Five, all good, but it's honestly a question I ask -- and I am sure that's the same most guys would say about any track that do or don't do well on.

We've never really had big jumps at Loretta Lynn's, other than the tabletop, but you either had to make it so far that only a few classes could jump it -- and minis would still try -- or small enough that almost everyone could jump it.

What Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell have come up with is a rough, uneven track that's less spectacular than it is challenging. With long motos, plenty of lines (not sure where the one-line criticism comes from) and a cross-section of the country's best riders, it works out best for what we're trying to do, which is hold an AMA National Championship on a "level" playing field and then send everyone home safely.

As always, any suggestions or ideas or just even straight-up complaints are welcome -- we listen to them all. And thanks for coming.

DC
MX Sports
hillbilly
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8/5/2014 12:32pm
DC wrote:
Gringoe, Triple Five, all good, but it's honestly a question I ask -- and I am sure that's the same most guys would say about any...
Gringoe, Triple Five, all good, but it's honestly a question I ask -- and I am sure that's the same most guys would say about any track that do or don't do well on.

We've never really had big jumps at Loretta Lynn's, other than the tabletop, but you either had to make it so far that only a few classes could jump it -- and minis would still try -- or small enough that almost everyone could jump it.

What Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell have come up with is a rough, uneven track that's less spectacular than it is challenging. With long motos, plenty of lines (not sure where the one-line criticism comes from) and a cross-section of the country's best riders, it works out best for what we're trying to do, which is hold an AMA National Championship on a "level" playing field and then send everyone home safely.

As always, any suggestions or ideas or just even straight-up complaints are welcome -- we listen to them all. And thanks for coming.

DC
MX Sports
Gringoe says he has raced LLs for the past 10 yrs but has yet to show his finishes.
hillbilly
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8/5/2014 12:33pm
Highsider wrote:
"...single to table (dont leave your bars loose)"

Good one, billyhill.
Hehe, I knew someone would remember.
8/5/2014 12:47pm
The track is as good as it can be from my perspective.

I'm sure it was better suited for big bikes before four strokes took over.
The Rock
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8/5/2014 1:17pm
TripleFive wrote:
I didn't do well. Crashed a bunch. 29th in 250 B. Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whittney. The difference between those tracks and...
I didn't do well. Crashed a bunch.

29th in 250 B.

Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whittney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.
Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whitney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.

How so?

PS Congrats on your dedication and for making LL!
RPM68
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DFW, TX US
8/5/2014 1:38pm
DC wrote:
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot...
I thought it was extremely rough (especially the motos right before maintenance) and very challenging. We have to accommodate a lot of riders, at a lot of levels of age and experience, and everything from Shaft Drive to 450 Pro Sport... On the same track. On the same day. Throughout the same week. Everybody deserves a championship experience, and we try to give it to them.

When people do complain, I always find it useful to ask them what place they got. Gringoe? Triple Five?

Most of the riders who were there sure seemed to like the track and the challenges it presented, and I thought the racing was pretty damn exciting, even if Renzland could not pass Hampshire. (Actually, since Hampshire won all six motos, maybe he was just that little fraction faster and did a good job of holding him off?)

Regardless, we will try harder next year. And the next year...

DC
MX Sports
Exactly, there are like 15 lines in every corner!
Dirty Mike
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8/5/2014 1:39pm
TripleFive wrote:
I didn't do well. Crashed a bunch. 29th in 250 B. Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whittney. The difference between those tracks and...
I didn't do well. Crashed a bunch.

29th in 250 B.

Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whittney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.
Mmm your vital account says your posting from Colorado. The rider who got 29th overall in 250 B is from Texas...Huh
jleews6
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8/5/2014 1:58pm
During one of the qualifiers there was a kid that was close to Hampshire and all the locals thought that he was going to have something for Hampshire when they got to the ranch and I kept saying that when they get to Lorettas he wont even be close because the track at the ranch will separate the riders.Long story short is that the local kid wasnt even close to Hampshire at the ranch.
I feel that the track was a little tight but the layout was awesome and the "obstacles ?" on the track really made the riders plan ahead and pick good lines and those tight rutted corners really made for some great racing.
The only thing I think I would like to see is a little more maintenance because I know a motocross track is supposed to be rough but I also see allot of kids get hurt when the track is let go to long.
That being said, It was good to see not many crashes this year.
bigborefan
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8/5/2014 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 2:05pm
The Rock wrote:
[i]Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whitney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.[/i] How so? PS Congrats on your...
Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whitney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.

How so?

PS Congrats on your dedication and for making LL!
LL vs Whitney?

That's like Lake Elsinore vs Glen Helen. One has elevation changes and one doesn't.

I made it to LL in 84, Open B. I got smoked. I do remember it was hot and humid. Hung up a towel to dry. It never dried all week long. We camped in a tent, old school tough guys we are.

The track had deep ruts. We were moto 1 and the first practice. After practice the track was beat all up. I didn't mind that at all. I quit MX in 94 because the tracks I was riding were just outdoor SX, and SX was not my thing. The tracks got slower, tighter, smoother, and lots of jumps. I like speed, bumps and elevation changes in my MX tracks. I loved Lake Whitney. I went off-road in 94 and never looked back.

8/5/2014 2:04pm
The Rock wrote:
[i]Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whitney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.[/i] How so? PS Congrats on your...
Had qualifiers at Lakewood, Cycle Ranch, and Lake Whitney. The difference between those tracks and LL are night and day.

How so?

PS Congrats on your dedication and for making LL!
Thanks! I've never had an experience that involved so much stress and so much fun all at the same time!

The primary difference between LL and those tracks is the land that they are located on. LL is completely flat and packed into a small area. To compensate, all the terrain is man-made. The whole track just feels crunched together. While it would be completely fine for an 85 or 125, it was just felt way too tight for a 250f -- it felt more like SX than moto because of its technicality.

Conversely, Lakewood, Lake Whitney, and Cycle Ranch are on gigantic plots of land with huge elevation changes. A lot more opportunity to "hang it out" if you will.

I don't know if you've had the pleasure of visiting Lake Whitney before it shut down or Cycle Ranch, but those are two of the best tracks in the United States.





Lakewood is a ton of fun as well:

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