what happened to the 2018 crf 250?

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11/20/2017 8:58 PM

After listening to Keefers shootout podcast it seems obvious that the engine didnt go the direction everyone expected. what happened? the 2018 ktm and yamaha are unchanged its not like they improved the previous models. didnt honda dyno and test back to back the other bikes?

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11/20/2017 9:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/20/2017 9:14 PM

ratonmacias wrote:

After listening to Keefers shootout podcast it seems obvious that the engine didnt go the direction everyone expected. what happened? the 2018 ktm and yamaha are unchanged its not like they improved the previous models. didnt honda dyno and test back to back the other bikes?

I believe the numbers are still there, check out ML's review on the shootout. I think most people just don't like the power delivery, less bottom end, more mid to top, its just very different for a Honda. But most reviewers raved about the bike's handling and engine once in the higher rpms. I believe the chief engineer or something at Honda awhile ago admitted they build bikes that the are easy for the everyday joe to ride, which is where they will continue to reside, which is smart, bike sales drive everything else. And its a first year for this engine design, I'm sure they'll have it tweaked for 19.

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"Asking this question here is analogous to going to a KrispyKreme store and asking the patrons if you should have a doughnut."-NotCore

11/20/2017 9:15 PM

Needs another exhaust system, I heard Yosh has a $2k three header system that really wakes up the bottom end.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

11/20/2017 9:16 PM

I didn't listen to Keefers shootout, but I rode the 2018 CRF250R and really liked it. It could use more bottom but the mid and top is good. Very smooth power and handles great. Feels super light and nimble.

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recmx.com

REC MX, JE Pistons, Wiseco, Rusk Racing, Yoshimura, Enzo Racing, Dubya Wheels, Asterisk, Rocket Performance, CCR Sport, & MMR

11/20/2017 9:21 PM

I haven't been on the bike, but from what I've seen (Dyno and what I've been told) it's going to be a "marmite" year for that bike.
Personally, I'm disappointed and was hoping they would try to emulate the Yamaha's power (and probably win every shootout).
Honda have been known to keep a lot in reserve the first year, and I'm hoping next year will show more of that motors potential.
I'm almost certain I'll be keeping my current CRF for another year.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

11/20/2017 9:28 PM

I don't know, but dual pipes are fucking stooooooopid. Dual headers even stoooooooooooopider.

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Cheers, Crush
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11/20/2017 9:41 PM

Crush wrote:

I don't know, but dual pipes are fucking stooooooopid. Dual headers even stoooooooooooopider.

Tell that to the Moto3 mob, Magilla Gorilla!

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11/20/2017 9:42 PM

Everyone knows Honda is full of pride. They will make their bike the way want regardless of everyone else, for the good or bad. In this case, well...

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11/20/2017 9:46 PM

Crush wrote:

I don't know, but dual pipes are fucking stooooooopid. Dual headers even stoooooooooooopider.

Bearuno wrote:

Tell that to the Moto3 mob, Magilla Gorilla!

Not sure they're in the same market as MX...

The sport is just slowly pegging away into an unaffordable state.

I'll rant about participation as much as slower bikes and tracks soon.

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Cheers, Crush
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11/21/2017 2:40 AM

Go up one tooth size on the rear sprocket.....don’t you read Mx magazines? smile

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11/21/2017 2:47 AM

The curve is clearly very top end heavy, it's supposed to be ridden like a 250 is meant to be ridden. Just like the KTM.

I'm sure you can get the bike on a dyno and move more power to low- and mid end.

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11/21/2017 3:36 AM

Be interesing how the engine goes off road with some extra inertia? Plenty of traction and smoothness I would imagine

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11/21/2017 3:43 AM

Its a race bike finally not a trail bike.

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11/21/2017 3:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/21/2017 3:56 AM

Crush wrote:

I don't know, but dual pipes are fucking stooooooopid. Dual headers even stoooooooooooopider.

Bearuno wrote:

Tell that to the Moto3 mob, Magilla Gorilla!

Crush wrote:

Not sure they're in the same market as MX...

The sport is just slowly pegging away into an unaffordable state.

I'll rant about participation as much as slower bikes and tracks soon.

Just stop the complaining. Nobody forces you to buy an aftermarket exhaust. By the way, the price won't be a lot different from the CRF450 exhaust which has only 1 header. So 2 headers isn't necessarily more expensive. Yes, you need more material but at the same time the production costs are going down because the design is simpler.

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11/21/2017 8:19 AM

I dont buy the "this is a race engine" line mainly because its not a rocket on the topend. maybe this bike has a lot of potential untapped and it can become a great bike with some mapping and cams or exhaust. we will see how tuners work with these bikes.

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11/21/2017 8:43 AM

ratonmacias wrote:

After listening to Keefers shootout podcast it seems obvious that the engine didnt go the direction everyone expected. what happened? the 2018 ktm and yamaha are unchanged its not like they improved the previous models. didnt honda dyno and test back to back the other bikes?

usafwx wrote:

I believe the numbers are still there, check out ML's review on the shootout. I think most people just don't like the power delivery, less bottom end, more mid to top, its just very different for a Honda. But most reviewers raved about the bike's handling and engine once in the higher rpms. I believe the chief engineer or something at Honda awhile ago admitted they build bikes that the are easy for the everyday joe to ride, which is where they will continue to reside, which is smart, bike sales drive everything else. And its a first year for this engine design, I'm sure they'll have it tweaked for 19.

I understand Honda’s thinking on the 450 but not for the 250. The 250 needs the power everywhere. I’m sure mapping will be an easy fix, but I expected more all around from the new motor.

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2017 RMZ450
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11/26/2017 6:54 AM

The faster guys that are looking for more power always end up modding the bike anyway. In my opinion you should build a 250f motor with a broad usable powerband for the general public. The KTM has a great motor on top but it lacks bottom end. The YZF has almost too much bottom and lacks over-rev. If the Honda would have found a way to split the difference the 18 would have dominated the shootouts. I guess we will wait to see what Honda does for 2019. Although in 19 there will be a new RMZ, YZF and KTM.

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11/26/2017 8:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/26/2017 8:53 AM

Honda is ultra conservative. I would imagine that this motor was built to be a race engine, with the mechanicals and geometry needed to make it scream for the top teams.

Once you take that tech and lower compression and take down the timing, you probably loose or retard what the motor is capable of..... (which is what they do for Johnny Public’s bike)

Tuners always talk about “I can make bike X scream..... Bike Y is very receptive to mods and there is easy power to be found..... etc.” I would bet money that dollar for dollar, this Honda engine will yield more HP than other bikes when you throw in a high-compression piston, cams, ignition, and exhaust

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

11/26/2017 2:36 PM

I was also hoping they would go after the Yamaha style with a real broad power curve. So I was also disappointed. I'm happy I didn't wait 2 extra months to buy one and decided to just buy a Yamaha instead. Couldn't be happier.

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11/26/2017 2:40 PM

Crush wrote:

I don't know, but dual pipes are fucking stooooooopid. Dual headers even stoooooooooooopider.

Nah duelies are sick. I love my duel yoshis smile

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11/26/2017 7:03 PM

BobPA wrote:

Needs another exhaust system, I heard Yosh has a $2k three header system that really wakes up the bottom end.

The difference isn't even remotely close enough to bridge the gap to all the other bikes bottom to mid

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11/26/2017 7:18 PM

MxKing809 wrote:

Honda is ultra conservative. I would imagine that this motor was built to be a race engine, with the mechanicals and geometry needed to make it scream for the top teams.

Once you take that tech and lower compression and take down the timing, you probably loose or retard what the motor is capable of..... (which is what they do for Johnny Public’s bike)

Tuners always talk about “I can make bike X scream..... Bike Y is very receptive to mods and there is easy power to be found..... etc.” I would bet money that dollar for dollar, this Honda engine will yield more HP than other bikes when you throw in a high-compression piston, cams, ignition, and exhaust

the ktm is already much better off stock. While I agree the Honda will have easy power lurking as typical of Honda, dollar per dollar invested with the right builder on either bike the ktm would still end up better


I'm a huge fan of the Honda design changes and overall base architecture, and it will serve them well for the next 4-5 year cycle and beyond. For me, getting the right cam profile sorted out along with seeing if any easy gains can be found in the stock piston design will be the two big improvements right out of the gate, followed by port evaluation and of course electronics for those who have the budget. Honda left big room on the table though for what is needed for a truly well rounded engine.

The exhaust system results are good gains for a bolt on, but no where near earth shattering or what will be needed to fill the bottom end up

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11/26/2017 8:54 PM

You are probably looking at ballpark $1500 to make the Honda on par with the KTM. The KTM MSRP is higher and though the magazines rave about the air forks all the local guys I know on 17 KTM's did the conversion kit or bought cone forks. I think it would be wash either way but It kinda makes you mad to drop 8-9k for a bike that needs major suspension or motorwork.

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11/26/2017 11:47 PM

brocsdad wrote:

You are probably looking at ballpark $1500 to make the Honda on par with the KTM. The KTM MSRP is higher and though the magazines rave about the air forks all the local guys I know on 17 KTM's did the conversion kit or bought cone forks. I think it would be wash either way but It kinda makes you mad to drop 8-9k for a bike that needs major suspension or motorwork.

For me the Honda chassis and suspension are so good off the showroom room. The engine is good, it’s got way more power than most people are getting the impression. I honestly really love the stock suspension.

The KTM has a great chassis and engine out of the box. But I really don’t love the forks.

If I bought the Honda, I’d get exhaust and maybe try some engine work.

If I bought the KTM, I’d get an exhaust and new forks.

It’s a wash between getting the perfect bike...

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11/27/2017 12:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/27/2017 12:50 PM

i think honda is working on a different cam.

I would hate to open a new engine to replace a new piston with a different new piston. Hopefully the '19 gets all those updates from the factory.

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11/27/2017 2:39 PM

I love Hondas but I can pick up a '17 KX250F for $4995 and it's an excellent all over bike. It even feels like a Honda. Huge difference from our '15 KX. Is it the "best" bike out there? Probably not ,but hard to beat for the price & performance. May just buy another this week and still be not much more than one KTM/Husky..........

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11/27/2017 7:13 PM

Tracktor wrote:

I love Hondas but I can pick up a '17 KX250F for $4995 and it's an excellent all over bike. It even feels like a Honda. Huge difference from our '15 KX. Is it the "best" bike out there? Probably not ,but hard to beat for the price & performance. May just buy another this week and still be not much more than one KTM/Husky..........

Where did did you see 17 kxf's for $4995?

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11/27/2017 9:29 PM

Dealer here has 17 CRF250R's for $5525. I loved my 16.

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"Asking this question here is analogous to going to a KrispyKreme store and asking the patrons if you should have a doughnut."-NotCore

11/27/2017 9:40 PM

Four strokes have spoiled us. 125's were for many years only mid to top end, had to carry momentum and fan the clutch to keep it in the power. Yep we're spoiled now complaining of lack of low end LOL

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11/27/2017 9:42 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

the ktm is already much better off stock. While I agree the Honda will have easy power lurking as typical of Honda, dollar per dollar invested with the right builder on either bike the ktm would still end up better


I'm a huge fan of the Honda design changes and overall base architecture, and it will serve them well for the next 4-5 year cycle and beyond. For me, getting the right cam profile sorted out along with seeing if any easy gains can be found in the stock piston design will be the two big improvements right out of the gate, followed by port evaluation and of course electronics for those who have the budget. Honda left big room on the table though for what is needed for a truly well rounded engine.

The exhaust system results are good gains for a bolt on, but no where near earth shattering or what will be needed to fill the bottom end up

Do you think you can really fix the Hondas power curve with the dual headers? Seems to me the Honda simply has too much exhaust.

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