the new 2017 crf 85 (sorry mean 450)

brimx153
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brimx153
Edited Date/Time 7/13/2015 4:26am
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
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kiwifan 7/12/2015 2:33am
7/12/2015 2:33am
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017?

To me it doesnt look any smaller than my 2015

Perhaps ML512 knows but having ridden all the 2015 450's the Honda suited me ok and I am 5'8''. Paulin does well and hes a very big dude.

The 2016 Kawasaki looks smaller than the 2015. So your choices are becoming limited.
bobojim
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bobojim 7/12/2015 2:45am
7/12/2015 2:45am
I am just curious as to what is the actual problem with a bike that "looks" small?

All that really matters are the contact points - pegs, handlebars and seat.

Assuming the pegs stay roughly in the same position and the handlebars/forks don't get lower, isn't the bike basically the same size. Plus you can change bars or bar clamps and if the seat is too low, just put a thicker one on.
DL
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DL 7/12/2015 9:11am
7/12/2015 9:11am
In MXGP Paulin has different size frames to pick from.
SeaClassExpert 7/12/2015 9:15am
7/12/2015 9:15am
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
I actually logged in just to tell you how ironically stupid your damn title is. You literally started a thread just to complain about the size of a bike you will never even consider buying.

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mjskier
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mjskier 7/12/2015 9:24am
7/12/2015 9:24am
Tall riders can make any bike look like a pit bike.
My 07 300 XC-W which is larger than the current KTMs...



and then there is this guy...

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Tumblin 7/12/2015 9:33am
7/12/2015 9:33am
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
SeaClassExpert wrote:
I actually logged in just to tell you how ironically stupid your damn title is. You literally started a thread just to complain about the size...
I actually logged in just to tell you how ironically stupid your damn title is. You literally started a thread just to complain about the size of a bike you will never even consider buying.
Sea class might want to show a little of that class Or not "just log in".. His point is he won't consider buying that bike and wonders why Honda may be alienating larger stature riders from their market?
I was impressed with that kit that popped up in one of these forums by a company that made for larger frame riders. Raising sub frame, tank, shrouds, bar risers...but maybe in the future you'll be able to order KTM's like a shirt in small, medium and large.
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rohleder644 7/12/2015 9:46am
7/12/2015 9:46am
I'm curious as to where this guy went wrong with his post. Some of you guys make it impossible to start a topic. I for one appreciate a little diversity in subject matter. It's a nice change of pace from the 38 posts analyzing reed's social media etiquette.
brimx153
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brimx153 7/12/2015 2:35pm
7/12/2015 2:35pm
so i ask , will honda lose customers because there bike s are the smallest out of all the bike , and if you disagree with this ,ur stupid , it is small , even look at any test , its the first thing every tester says about it . i dont see how i am bagging on honda . there a great bike , but i know for a fact loads of people dont buy them because no matter what you chance they still feel too small for anyone above 5 ,10, which is nt tall in my book . every other bike feels pretty much the same ,maybe kawi a bit big . but if this new one is smaller again ,( which it really looks like ) imo they will lose alot of there rider s
brimx153
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brimx153 7/12/2015 2:36pm
7/12/2015 2:36pm
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
SeaClassExpert wrote:
I actually logged in just to tell you how ironically stupid your damn title is. You literally started a thread just to complain about the size...
I actually logged in just to tell you how ironically stupid your damn title is. You literally started a thread just to complain about the size of a bike you will never even consider buying.
no i started a thread to ask a question .
brimx153
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brimx153 7/12/2015 2:49pm
7/12/2015 2:49pm
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
kiwifan wrote:
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017? To me it doesnt look...
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017?

To me it doesnt look any smaller than my 2015

Perhaps ML512 knows but having ridden all the 2015 450's the Honda suited me ok and I am 5'8''. Paulin does well and hes a very big dude.

The 2016 Kawasaki looks smaller than the 2015. So your choices are becoming limited.
5 8 is smaller than avgerage height which is 5 9 . so yes the bike might suit u down to the ground (the world population avg height is getting taller too )that s my point why make a bike that will lose out on customers ???. the 2015 kawi is the biggest bike out there imo , so if its smaller in 2016 , its prob just the same as the rest now . ( Paulin does well and hes a very big dude ) sorry are you mad ??, this is his worse year since he joined the 450 s , he is stuggling like hell imo . its been a terrible season for him ,by his standards . But that bike is full factory so dont even know why you bring that up .it mean s nothing about a standard honda !!!!!!!! the bike i am referring to is pre -prod 2017 . which deff looks smaller imo .
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brimx153 7/12/2015 2:50pm
7/12/2015 2:50pm
rohleder644 wrote:
I'm curious as to where this guy went wrong with his post. Some of you guys make it impossible to start a topic. I for one...
I'm curious as to where this guy went wrong with his post. Some of you guys make it impossible to start a topic. I for one appreciate a little diversity in subject matter. It's a nice change of pace from the 38 posts analyzing reed's social media etiquette.
thanks ,it impossible just to ask a question around here sometime s
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chrisgg90 7/12/2015 3:22pm
7/12/2015 3:22pm
Well I have the same problem I'm 6'2 and have encountered this problem. Until recently I have been riding a 2011 KTM 450 but needing to renew as it was getting long in the tooth so I sold it on. I have been riding KTM since 2004 and fully intended buying another. I had a seat on and rode the 2015 as well as a seat on the 2016, the bikes are so small feeling really cramped with the transition from sitting to standing being the worst part because of the bend in the legs. I have rode most of the current 2015 bikes and the only bike I feel fits me is the Kawasaki with great adjustability re the bars, pegs etc. I have just purchased a 2016 one as no 2015 left in the UK. I have looked at the dimensions of the 15 and 16 and there is slight differences but hopefully not that much to alter the fit if the bike dramatically. Kawasaki have always made there bikes to fit taller riders. I'm currently racing a 2013 one until my 16 arrives.
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kiwifan 7/12/2015 4:32pm
7/12/2015 4:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2015 4:32pm
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
kiwifan wrote:
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017? To me it doesnt look...
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017?

To me it doesnt look any smaller than my 2015

Perhaps ML512 knows but having ridden all the 2015 450's the Honda suited me ok and I am 5'8''. Paulin does well and hes a very big dude.

The 2016 Kawasaki looks smaller than the 2015. So your choices are becoming limited.
brimx153 wrote:
5 8 is smaller than avgerage height which is 5 9 . so yes the bike might suit u down to the ground (the world population...
5 8 is smaller than avgerage height which is 5 9 . so yes the bike might suit u down to the ground (the world population avg height is getting taller too )that s my point why make a bike that will lose out on customers ???. the 2015 kawi is the biggest bike out there imo , so if its smaller in 2016 , its prob just the same as the rest now . ( Paulin does well and hes a very big dude ) sorry are you mad ??, this is his worse year since he joined the 450 s , he is stuggling like hell imo . its been a terrible season for him ,by his standards . But that bike is full factory so dont even know why you bring that up .it mean s nothing about a standard honda !!!!!!!! the bike i am referring to is pre -prod 2017 . which deff looks smaller imo .
Adding to the discussion here....

So let me get this right because the bike apparently doesn't suit YOUR height or anyone taller than you (you are assuming this as you haven't spoken to everyone taller than you who rides the bikes) then its a bad bike to own, and all of the other bikes are ok or are you just picking on Honda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

This shows that the world is made up of various people of heights, and this has been like this for a very long time...bikes have been built for people for a very long time and now they need to cater for all heights? You arent being serious and are taking the piss aren't ya?

Someone in this thread said KTM will produce bikes with swappable sub frames, etc...really? I highly doubt it...it would increase the costs of the bikes making them almost unaffordable, bad enough as it is now.

Kawasaki's are the best bikes for taller riders, but don't suit smaller riders, so by your logic Kawasaki are losing out on customers and they are bad bad bad boys by doing that.

Of course we all know there are some short riders who do well on Kawasaki just as we know there are tall riders who do well on Hondas....shessshhh.
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kiwifan 7/12/2015 4:34pm
7/12/2015 4:34pm
chrisgg90 wrote:
Well I have the same problem I'm 6'2 and have encountered this problem. Until recently I have been riding a 2011 KTM 450 but needing to...
Well I have the same problem I'm 6'2 and have encountered this problem. Until recently I have been riding a 2011 KTM 450 but needing to renew as it was getting long in the tooth so I sold it on. I have been riding KTM since 2004 and fully intended buying another. I had a seat on and rode the 2015 as well as a seat on the 2016, the bikes are so small feeling really cramped with the transition from sitting to standing being the worst part because of the bend in the legs. I have rode most of the current 2015 bikes and the only bike I feel fits me is the Kawasaki with great adjustability re the bars, pegs etc. I have just purchased a 2016 one as no 2015 left in the UK. I have looked at the dimensions of the 15 and 16 and there is slight differences but hopefully not that much to alter the fit if the bike dramatically. Kawasaki have always made there bikes to fit taller riders. I'm currently racing a 2013 one until my 16 arrives.
I have a chainsaw if you want to lose a couple of inches.... :-)

I ordered the 2016 Kawi too...I cant wait...!!!
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kiwifan 7/12/2015 4:35pm
7/12/2015 4:35pm
rohleder644 wrote:
I'm curious as to where this guy went wrong with his post. Some of you guys make it impossible to start a topic. I for one...
I'm curious as to where this guy went wrong with his post. Some of you guys make it impossible to start a topic. I for one appreciate a little diversity in subject matter. It's a nice change of pace from the 38 posts analyzing reed's social media etiquette.
brimx153 wrote:
thanks ,it impossible just to ask a question around here sometime s
lmfao
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kiwifan 7/12/2015 4:36pm
7/12/2015 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2015 4:37pm
bobojim wrote:
I am just curious as to what is the actual problem with a bike that "looks" small? All that really matters are the contact points -...
I am just curious as to what is the actual problem with a bike that "looks" small?

All that really matters are the contact points - pegs, handlebars and seat.

Assuming the pegs stay roughly in the same position and the handlebars/forks don't get lower, isn't the bike basically the same size. Plus you can change bars or bar clamps and if the seat is too low, just put a thicker one on.
Apparently not good enough.... all Honda bikes must cater for all heights!!!! shessshhh
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gpracer36 7/12/2015 5:30pm
7/12/2015 5:30pm
DL wrote:
In MXGP Paulin has different size frames to pick from.
Don, how does your son like the 2017 CRF? I heard he likes it but can you add anything?
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Cygnus 7/12/2015 5:40pm
7/12/2015 5:40pm
Hell if this is true I may just have to look Into a new ride.

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zlowery 7/12/2015 6:30pm
7/12/2015 6:30pm
brimx153 wrote:
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already...
does anyone think that honda will start doing them self s out of customers because of the size of there bikes . imo they are already the smallest by far of the bikes . looking at the new pics and video of the 2017 its smaller again .as in tiny . i kno the rider is small to begin with ,and even he looks big on it . plus i really really think that this is on of paulin s biggest probs this year .it really looks like he is riding an 85 and is so cramped. i was always a honda man till 2012 and i sat on one, thing was tiny imo , iam only 5 ,9 .and i reallly think thats not tall for a 450. so my question is will honda be only a small man s bike from 2017
I agree. It looked small from the first pics out. How tall is akira narita? You can call it pre-prod, but history proves that these bike sightings prove to be mostly accurate. Owned a 2005, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2013 CRF450. I swear they've gotten more and more cramped between those 3 generations. I threw the towel in last year and got a 2014 yz450f. Been 6' since 2005 and had enough.

I'd like to see hard numbers on these big 6 bikes. Axle to axle comparisons. Headtube to footpeg relations. Etc Etc.
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DL 7/12/2015 7:50pm
7/12/2015 7:50pm
DL wrote:
In MXGP Paulin has different size frames to pick from.
gpracer36 wrote:
Don, how does your son like the 2017 CRF? I heard he likes it but can you add anything?
He's riding a Yamaha YZ250 F now. No more Honda.
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731chopper 7/12/2015 8:00pm
7/12/2015 8:00pm
I'm a little shorter than average height so the Honda being a smaller bike is a big selling point to me. The last time I bought a brand new bike last year it was between the kx and crf. I've always been a Kawi guy at heart but I wanted the CRF because of the size. I ended up getting the Kawi because I was able to get a much better deal on it vs what I could get the Honda for. I will go through the same comparisons next time and the smaller bike is a plus in my book. I know I'm not alone.
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brimx153 7/12/2015 8:17pm
7/12/2015 8:17pm
kiwifan wrote:
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017? To me it doesnt look...
so you look at a pre-prod 2017 bike and can tell its going to be smaller when its produced in 2017?

To me it doesnt look any smaller than my 2015

Perhaps ML512 knows but having ridden all the 2015 450's the Honda suited me ok and I am 5'8''. Paulin does well and hes a very big dude.

The 2016 Kawasaki looks smaller than the 2015. So your choices are becoming limited.
brimx153 wrote:
5 8 is smaller than avgerage height which is 5 9 . so yes the bike might suit u down to the ground (the world population...
5 8 is smaller than avgerage height which is 5 9 . so yes the bike might suit u down to the ground (the world population avg height is getting taller too )that s my point why make a bike that will lose out on customers ???. the 2015 kawi is the biggest bike out there imo , so if its smaller in 2016 , its prob just the same as the rest now . ( Paulin does well and hes a very big dude ) sorry are you mad ??, this is his worse year since he joined the 450 s , he is stuggling like hell imo . its been a terrible season for him ,by his standards . But that bike is full factory so dont even know why you bring that up .it mean s nothing about a standard honda !!!!!!!! the bike i am referring to is pre -prod 2017 . which deff looks smaller imo .
kiwifan wrote:
Adding to the discussion here.... So let me get this right because the bike apparently doesn't suit YOUR height or anyone taller than you (you are...
Adding to the discussion here....

So let me get this right because the bike apparently doesn't suit YOUR height or anyone taller than you (you are assuming this as you haven't spoken to everyone taller than you who rides the bikes) then its a bad bike to own, and all of the other bikes are ok or are you just picking on Honda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

This shows that the world is made up of various people of heights, and this has been like this for a very long time...bikes have been built for people for a very long time and now they need to cater for all heights? You arent being serious and are taking the piss aren't ya?

Someone in this thread said KTM will produce bikes with swappable sub frames, etc...really? I highly doubt it...it would increase the costs of the bikes making them almost unaffordable, bad enough as it is now.

Kawasaki's are the best bikes for taller riders, but don't suit smaller riders, so by your logic Kawasaki are losing out on customers and they are bad bad bad boys by doing that.

Of course we all know there are some short riders who do well on Kawasaki just as we know there are tall riders who do well on Hondas....shessshhh.
have you every looked at any mag shoot out !! do you want me to post them all up for you . every test rider has said the same thing since 09 that the bike feels smaller than other brands ,it got smaller again in 13. go sit on a 08 crf and then a 2015 and tell me its not alot smaller. where did i ever say kawi dont suit smaller riders ??????????????????????????????????? ktm ,suzuki ,yamaha and kawi all feel nearly the same the kawi slightly bigger , the honda is smaller thats a fact !!. i rode a 04,05,06,07,08 crf ,i have nothing against honda . i know that if i started the thread about any other brand you would nt be here talking crap ,everyone on this board know s ur the biggest honda fan ever ,each thread u defend them like there your family.
i am talking about average height too. not that honda should be aimed at tall riders either , both it is smaller than other bike s i know for a fact die hard honda guy s here have had to go to different brand s because they feel cramped . thats the question i am asking ,WHY MAKE A BIKE THAT MAKES THE AVG RIDER FEEL CRAMPED imo they will do them selfs out of business .
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tempura 7/12/2015 8:23pm
7/12/2015 8:23pm
The average height where these bikes are designed and manufactured is probably about 5'7"-5'8".
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brimx153 7/12/2015 8:31pm
7/12/2015 8:31pm
731chopper wrote:
I'm a little shorter than average height so the Honda being a smaller bike is a big selling point to me. The last time I bought...
I'm a little shorter than average height so the Honda being a smaller bike is a big selling point to me. The last time I bought a brand new bike last year it was between the kx and crf. I've always been a Kawi guy at heart but I wanted the CRF because of the size. I ended up getting the Kawi because I was able to get a much better deal on it vs what I could get the Honda for. I will go through the same comparisons next time and the smaller bike is a plus in my book. I know I'm not alone.
i agree with that that the bike will sell better to smaller riders ,my whole point of this is i find it weird for anything not to be aimed at the avg person .eg ,the 08 bike was alot bigger feel , and felt the same as every other brand is still now .i feel the 08 crf ,fit the small guy , avg guy and tall guy very well . if your tall now i really think you ll have alot of work to do to the 2015 to make that thing comfortable ,and if the 2017 is smaller again which it really looks like ,then i find it a strange business choice by honda
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brimx153 7/12/2015 8:33pm
7/12/2015 8:33pm
tempura wrote:
The average height where these bikes are designed and manufactured is probably about 5'7"-5'8".
but surely in 08 the avg height was still the same ,why start making a smaller bike
tempura
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tempura 7/12/2015 8:42pm
7/12/2015 8:42pm
I believe the average height is getting taller in Japan.
A lot of riders I speak to in Japan, like the Honda because of its size and ease of riding. Although it could feel cramped and slow for some, on the whole, I think the feed-back they get from their domestic customers is positive.
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brimx153 7/12/2015 8:56pm
7/12/2015 8:56pm
tempura wrote:
I believe the average height is getting taller in Japan. A lot of riders I speak to in Japan, like the Honda because of its size...
I believe the average height is getting taller in Japan.
A lot of riders I speak to in Japan, like the Honda because of its size and ease of riding. Although it could feel cramped and slow for some, on the whole, I think the feed-back they get from their domestic customers is positive.
yea thats what i believe too that the avg height world wide is getting taller (kiwifan disagrees ) that s why its funny they are making smaller bike s now than in 08. as ive said in this thread that i think the honda is a good bike ,its really light , i like the smooth power .turns well . but to me and alot of other people the bike feels cramped , and i am only avg height , i dont know how any over 6ft rides it ,
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tempura 7/12/2015 9:22pm
7/12/2015 9:22pm
Yep, taller riders would probably find more comfort on an alternative bike.
I have no real inside info why, but Honda has in recent years decided to produce a more friendly "middle of the road" bike. They seem to be selling pretty well, and I guess that's what really matters to the company.
NHtoWA421
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Bremerton, WA US
NHtoWA421 7/12/2015 9:28pm
7/12/2015 9:28pm
I think the answer to the question is far simpler: are manufactures design to the 50th percentile human, or 95 percentile human? The 50th percentile human is a lot smaller than the 95th percentile human. Now, on the surface it would make since to design to the 95th percentile human;however, if i were designing a racing bike to win races on sunday, and sell on monday, i would design to the target demographic, which is, for the most part, smaller in overall size then the 95th percentile human. I am not saying thay we are all small, but rather most of hondas target demographic, and testers are comfortable on their offering.
Redrcr34
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IL US
Redrcr34 7/12/2015 9:37pm
7/12/2015 9:37pm
I rode my 04 cr250 and my brother in law's 13 crf450 back to back all day. My Cr felt like I had more room ergo wise and I'm 5'10. The 13 450 seemed a little smaller, but didn't think it was that bad. I have never owned or ridden a crf450 until last week. Probably going get the 17 when it comes out.

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