seat height

Mr. G
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Riverside, CA US
7/28/2014 1:43am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2014 1:51am
At the risk of sounding like an old school idiot I have been wondering about something for some time. Seat heights. What is the reason? Suspension has not increased for some time. In fact back in the 80's you would see 13+ inches all the while having a lower seat height compared to today's bikes. My 1994 KX 500 has a lower sear height than my 2003 XR650R. Sure the XR motor is taller and maybe that is a bad example.
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hillbilly
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Afton, TN US
7/28/2014 6:38am
The relationship between the pegs and seat is prolly the deal.

See if the footpegs are same distance from the ground

Harder to stand from a deeper squat.
7/28/2014 7:49am
I'm glad others are now finding bikes taller - I am so short on my ol' 2000 CR that it barely makes any difference whether i stand or sit. :^) I can only touch the ground with one foot at a time.
FGR01
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AZ US
7/28/2014 8:09am
Seats have gotten flatter from back to front. They no longer have that huge noticeable dip in the middle with a big rise to the tank. Ride any 80's-90's bike and it feels like riding a sway back horse.
hillbilly
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Afton, TN US
7/28/2014 9:54am
I'm glad others are now finding bikes taller - I am so short on my ol' 2000 CR that it barely makes any difference whether i...
I'm glad others are now finding bikes taller - I am so short on my ol' 2000 CR that it barely makes any difference whether i stand or sit. :^) I can only touch the ground with one foot at a time.
You prolly know this but it is possible to lower the seat by cutting a half inch or maybe an inch out of the subframe stays,the pieces that hold up the rear of the seat.

It affects silencer mounting a little and airbox is a little lower so a little planning is in order.

Cut it out a little at a time till max is reached then reweld.

The Shop

stantdm
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Belle Fourche, SD US
7/28/2014 11:32am
I sat on a Beta 450RR last week and it felt just great. I could easily put both feet on the ground. Then I sat on a RMZ 450. I could only touch on foot to the ground and it was a major effort to throw a leg over it. I am 5'10. It seems a lot higher than any other bike I have ridden.
7/28/2014 11:47am
Hey Mr. G,

You are correct. The bikes are taller and that's not just because of the seat foam. They have just changed the geometry of the frames,etc. and the result is a taller bike. I assume they did that because the average person is taller now due to hormones in food, but don't quote me on that. Hey, here's a funny true stat. In the 1940's, the average height of a grown male was 5'9". Is that crazy or what? I think 6'0" or 6'1" now. We'll be giants by no time!

As for todays racers, of the guys that line up on a national today, I believe there's less than a handful that haven't lowered their seat. I remember I saw RC's bike at a SX. It was so low! Sure enough, RC was right behind me. I turned around and he's 5'3". 5'4" MAX. Well, he's flatfooted on his bike. Explain that to me? It's good to be factory.
Paw Paw 271
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Benton, LA US
7/28/2014 12:53pm
I f you will look at the older bike with the lower seat height, you will see that the gas tanks were elevated so the seat could be lower on the frame. Todays bike want more mass lower so the seat height suffers.

Paw Paw
FGR01
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Location
AZ US
7/29/2014 8:01am
hillbilly wrote:
You prolly know this but it is possible to lower the seat by cutting a half inch or maybe an inch out of the subframe stays,the...
You prolly know this but it is possible to lower the seat by cutting a half inch or maybe an inch out of the subframe stays,the pieces that hold up the rear of the seat.

It affects silencer mounting a little and airbox is a little lower so a little planning is in order.

Cut it out a little at a time till max is reached then reweld.
Cutting the subframe primarily lowers the back of the seat. This helps with keeping the back of the seat from smacking you in the ass through whoops and also helps when a shorty tries to swing his leg up over the rear fender.

But it doesn't help reach the ground when sitting in the normal position on the front of the seat. You have to cut the seat foam for that. I've found that cutting seat foam is an art form. One either has the skill or they don't. I tried it once and the seat ended up looking like a rabid wolverine had its way with it. I then sent another seat off to a guy in CA that does this on the side. It came back perfect and you can't even tell it was cut.
7/29/2014 8:08am
I tried it once and the seat ended up looking like a rabid wolverine had its way with it.

hahahaha

I remember reading in old Dirt Bike magazines about cutting the seat foam but I would probably buy a used seat to try it with first, for the wolverine reason given above.

The subframe mod is something I am going to investigate for sure. I gain ground through the corners but lose it through the whoops - they are my biggest challenge. I can barely get my caboose over the rear fender to start with and when I do, I am basically sitting on it.
JA946
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445
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7/24/2014
Location
Tucson, AZ US
7/29/2014 8:09am
Hey Mr. G, You are correct. The bikes are taller and that's not just because of the seat foam. They have just changed the geometry of...
Hey Mr. G,

You are correct. The bikes are taller and that's not just because of the seat foam. They have just changed the geometry of the frames,etc. and the result is a taller bike. I assume they did that because the average person is taller now due to hormones in food, but don't quote me on that. Hey, here's a funny true stat. In the 1940's, the average height of a grown male was 5'9". Is that crazy or what? I think 6'0" or 6'1" now. We'll be giants by no time!

As for todays racers, of the guys that line up on a national today, I believe there's less than a handful that haven't lowered their seat. I remember I saw RC's bike at a SX. It was so low! Sure enough, RC was right behind me. I turned around and he's 5'3". 5'4" MAX. Well, he's flatfooted on his bike. Explain that to me? It's good to be factory.
Are you saying that they build taller bikes because of hormones in food?

Really?.............Really?

No.

I would assume that engineers are building bike heights based on suspension geometry, trail, travel, valving, fluid height, sag, spring tension and linkage rate.
JA946
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Tucson, AZ US
7/29/2014 8:10am
stantdm wrote:
I sat on a Beta 450RR last week and it felt just great. I could easily put both feet on the ground. Then I sat on...
I sat on a Beta 450RR last week and it felt just great. I could easily put both feet on the ground. Then I sat on a RMZ 450. I could only touch on foot to the ground and it was a major effort to throw a leg over it. I am 5'10. It seems a lot higher than any other bike I have ridden.
Were both sprung and had the sag set correctly for you?

I'm assuming not. So your test doesn't work to scale.
lostboy819
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8/16/2006
Location
CO US
7/29/2014 8:18am
Hey Mr. G, You are correct. The bikes are taller and that's not just because of the seat foam. They have just changed the geometry of...
Hey Mr. G,

You are correct. The bikes are taller and that's not just because of the seat foam. They have just changed the geometry of the frames,etc. and the result is a taller bike. I assume they did that because the average person is taller now due to hormones in food, but don't quote me on that. Hey, here's a funny true stat. In the 1940's, the average height of a grown male was 5'9". Is that crazy or what? I think 6'0" or 6'1" now. We'll be giants by no time!

As for todays racers, of the guys that line up on a national today, I believe there's less than a handful that haven't lowered their seat. I remember I saw RC's bike at a SX. It was so low! Sure enough, RC was right behind me. I turned around and he's 5'3". 5'4" MAX. Well, he's flatfooted on his bike. Explain that to me? It's good to be factory.
You are trying to tell me that bikes are taller now because people are taller ? WoohooWoohooWoohooWoohooWoohoo
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
7/29/2014 8:24am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 8:24am
stantdm wrote:
I sat on a Beta 450RR last week and it felt just great. I could easily put both feet on the ground. Then I sat on...
I sat on a Beta 450RR last week and it felt just great. I could easily put both feet on the ground. Then I sat on a RMZ 450. I could only touch on foot to the ground and it was a major effort to throw a leg over it. I am 5'10. It seems a lot higher than any other bike I have ridden.
JA946 wrote:
Were both sprung and had the sag set correctly for you?

I'm assuming not. So your test doesn't work to scale.
Or, it could be that the Beta has a seat height of 36.8", and the Zook has a seat height of 37.6"?

You don't have to try to argue every single point that every single poster makes in every single thread on this forum. Choose your battles, and maybe this account will stick around a little longer than the last.
Mr. G
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Riverside, CA US
8/1/2014 1:01am
Geez I forgot to check this thread. Thanks for all of the replies. Makes sense now.
The Rock
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HAIKU, HI US
8/1/2014 1:51am
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