seamless gearbox

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8/3/2017 2:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 2:44 PM

I know they are used in motogp, and have been used on pc bikes. I dont see it being a huge advantage on dirt... i wonder what they cost mitch

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8/3/2017 2:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 2:44 PM

http://www.xtrac.com/champions/2006

Read down about the middle of Champions. 06 sx lites. As well as both coast lites in 07 and 1&2nd place outdoors 07.

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8/3/2017 3:31 PM

Not seamless.. just made stronger.. seamless isnt used in mx

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8/3/2017 4:48 PM

Honda had a RC250 2 stroke with a seamless type gearbox as a works bike in the early 90's, i think the tech developed went into there four wheeler transmissions,

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8/3/2017 5:21 PM

You'll probably see a Double Clutch Transmission in MX before something like the Seamless concept.

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Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

8/3/2017 6:00 PM

mark911 wrote:

You'll probably see a Double Clutch Transmission in MX before something like the Seamless concept.

can you explain that? how it would work/the benefit?

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8/3/2017 6:11 PM

mark911 wrote:

You'll probably see a Double Clutch Transmission in MX before something like the Seamless concept.

doofy wrote:

can you explain that? how it would work/the benefit?

Basically super fast gear changes (electronic or manual) resulting in almost no rpm drop. Google it, it's commercially used these days.

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Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

8/3/2017 6:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 6:53 PM

See Hodaka. Old school tech.

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8/3/2017 7:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 7:48 PM

Seamless Gearbox Explained

this has been one of Honda's most secretive technologies in recent years. At the beginning there was only one tech that could actually lay eyes on the tranny. At races when he had to remove it, he would cover it up from every other single person in the paddock, including the other technicians.
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8/3/2017 10:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/4/2017 2:58 AM

The bizzare thing is seamless Gearboxes came about from the banning of Dual Clutches.

To keep costs 'in check'.

So, they banned DCT, which is not particularly expensive - Honda have several models available with it as an option, one being the Africa Twin - so then the incredibly expensive Seamless Gearboxes came into being. I think that a few years ago Honda would lease them out to satellite teams for something like 800,000 to a Million (or more) Euros. A season, and that included the Tech(s) Katoomey mentioned.

Yep, great cost control there, MotoGP rule makers!

The Honda RC250MA of 90 / 91 (probably more years) mentioned was an Auto transmission, used in the All Japan series, and, I think used by Eric Geboers in either 1 GP or a non Championship / International meeting in Japan. It apparently worked well, but it required the countershaft to be far forward of the swingarm pivot like 70s model bikes - not the ones with 5" Centers, but not the 55-65mm Centers you see nowadays - you can see that problem in some LH side pictures of it. I think it used features like a shaft within a shaft, gears and pawls, a bit like SGs, hence the large 'outer' of the cases at the counter shaft area.
[LINK TO IMAGE][LINK TO IMAGE][LINK TO IMAGE]

PC having Seamless Gearboxes - no, just much better / stronger ones - they even had some 6 speeders made, I think. It's not Rocket Science, just open your checkbook up to someone like Quaiffe (sp?), and there you go.

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8/4/2017 2:06 AM

Are quick shifters used in MX?
I've got one on my Supermoto and it works great - throttle on the stop, tap it into the next gear smooth as silk. (Kills the ignition for 1/4000 second.)

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8/4/2017 5:55 AM

Seamless is one solution, but likely too expensive to ever see production. There are other ways. It will be faster and easier. Many will hate the change, other new riders will get involved due to the ease of learning.

The Auto industry has all but eliminated manual transmissions. ATV's and snow machines have also. Multi clutch and CVT are the most likely next solution. The Alta is exposing the advantages.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

8/4/2017 6:08 AM

skypig wrote:

Are quick shifters used in MX?
I've got one on my Supermoto and it works great - throttle on the stop, tap it into the next gear smooth as silk. (Kills the ignition for 1/4000 second.)

How does that work?

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8/4/2017 7:16 AM

I think GET has a quick shifter you can use with their ECU's, but I have yet to notice anyone using one.

I cant believe more teams are not jumping on the quick shifter bandwagon. I'm sure in MX it wouldnt be a huge time saver, but the ease of use for the rider would be well worth it IMO.

Also, anyone ever think about converting a MX bike to GP shift? Might be awkward for MX but I really liked it on my Ducati when I got used to it, just felt more natural...idk

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8/4/2017 7:11 PM

racingfortheson wrote:

How does that work?

Common tech on sports bikes.

I bought the "Starlane".
http://www.starlane.com/vedit/15/cronometro-gps-indicatore-marce-contagiri-cambio-elettronico-acquisizione-dati-PRODOTTI.asp?idprod=1136

A "piezo electric" washer is used on the gear stick.
This "senses" to force on the gearstick. The engine is "stopped" for a fraction of a second, unloading the gearbox and allowing an easy change.

The force required to activate^, engine cut time~, (FI, or Kill switch) and revs below which the system is disconnected* are all adjustable.

Hold the throttle against the stop, just click the next gear. It seems worth about 1/2 a bike length every gear change on the SM.


^ I notice if I adjust the sensitivity for MX boots, I need to re adjust for optimum shifting if I'm racing in softer road race boots.
~ stock setting 1/4000 sec. Seems smooth at that.
* It has to be disabled at low rpm, so you can select neutral without cutting the engine.

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