main reason for usa team's weak performance

Interesting points...I think the number of races are similar in MXGP (+ home nationals) vs. US SX and US Nationals, but the pressure and intensity of the European /World home country Nationals that GP riders are racing during off weekends is likely lower than ours. A 17 round SX series w/lots of injuries, followed by a full US Nats series likely leads to some burnout after a few years...particularly with the top guys. I wish we had few more 35 yr olds like Reedy still racing...stars are hard to come by (especially ones with personality)

Not another thread about this....
That’s my 1st thought !!

Carry on.....

Supercross is huge part of their careers here in the US of A.
SX is also very dangerous and unforgiving.
A lot of the top AMA guys(other than Reed) that have had great success and walk away in good health at younger ages with more money then they know what to do with.
It's typically the smart thing to do.

Poor performance? They did good it’s just that there were usually 10-15 riders better than them in each race, simple

I like the USA riders retire early excuse... but that's all it is. We sucked on our own soil. I wish Dungey or Poto was there but they weren't. I didn't really have much faith in Barcia (no disrespect) and I knew Eli was prone to bad races, nerves, breakdowns ECT. It's just how it worked out. We'll get another chance. Those Europeans look great at the moment so I give em big props.

Nuffsaid wrote:

Poor performance? They did good it’s just that there were usually 10-15 riders better than them in each race, simple

Excellent observation, although I personally would cut your numbers in half.

The US racing schedule is straight up insane. Supercross is about as demanding as you get, then the Nats, then MXDN, then Monster Cup, plus all the races tossed in between now, like RBSR. I love all the racing as fan but I wonder how the same basic group of guys can even sustain that. Now Feld wants to make SX even longer, when the field is a shell of itself by the end of the current series. I feel like we'll end up with a thin field because it's impossible to do all those races and practice schedules without getting injured. You don't see football players playing year around, for example. The GP riders have time to heal up and recoup mental energy. You heard Herlings say he's ready to party all winter and come back ready to race.

The usa riders rode fine, Plessinger had an off day but Barcia and Tomac finished as expected. I just think that a lot of people don't want to admit how fast the world championship riders are....Its the world championship.

I have said this... the 'quit as champ early' thing that has become the fashion means you have guys that get to be the best guy by default. Herlings is the best guy because he smoked Cairoli this year, and maybe the next 2 ... he isnt the best because AC quit before Herlings moved into 450. I still dont think Tomac would be anything other than a 3rd place guy wiyh RV and RD in there, 4th place if KRoc hadnt spannered himself.

While the results were definitely unexpected. The reason is there is too much money and emphasis based on Supercross. Plain and simple. I'm American and it's fairly obvious just by watching the MXGP's the the Euros are faster now outdoors. Just watch their speed in the turns. It's actually quite ridiculous sometimes. I rewind and watch some of the top euro guys because sometimes, it doesn't even look real.

philG wrote:

I have said this... the 'quit as champ early' thing that has become the fashion means you have guys that get to be the best guy by default. Herlings is the best guy because he smoked Cairoli this year, and maybe the next 2 ... he isnt the best because AC quit before Herlings moved into 450. I still dont think Tomac would be anything other than a 3rd place guy wiyh RV and RD in there, 4th place if KRoc hadnt spannered himself.

That's possible but who is the next RV or RD ? Herlings is looking to be a game changer on the level of RC and Everts.

ktm 125 wrote:

hi from greece!

I've been reading for quite a while, watch every season from 2000 including great outdoors, bar 2 bar etc so i guess im an ama-head all the way!
The reason i write is because i think no one mentioned the fact that usa top riders tend to retire rather early.
Rc at 27 same as rv and rd. Js7 at 29 but to be honnest the season he decided to have a break with bubba's world was the last season he earned a title so i could say he semi retired at 23! Pastrana was a great talent also and if he was born in europe he might continued with his mx career. Maybe that derives from the all year long schedule, maybe mx riders love to drive a nascar car but fact is rv rd and et could have been this year's team. Cairoli is 32, everts quits at 35 while winning chad reed is still here even though he stayed out of mx a lot of seasons. I doesnt make sense because in nba, even though its less demanting than mx, the games played in a year are double the games we play in europe but still top players retire at late 30's, while europe common age for retire is 35. any thoughts?

i mentioned this already , this top athletes do double the championships in the time they get 25 ...so they are completely burnt up . (national championships in Europe are a JOKE compared to SX , believe me ) .

philG wrote:

I have said this... the 'quit as champ early' thing that has become the fashion means you have guys that get to be the best guy by default. Herlings is the best guy because he smoked Cairoli this year, and maybe the next 2 ... he isnt the best because AC quit before Herlings moved into 450. I still dont think Tomac would be anything other than a 3rd place guy wiyh RV and RD in there, 4th place if KRoc hadnt spannered himself.

ATKpilot99 wrote:

That's possible but who is the next RV or RD ? Herlings is looking to be a game changer on the level of RC and Everts.

I dont see one... it was meant to be Ciancirulo but he never really happened (great rider though) from 250 but i look at the 450 class now and dont see a 250 guy that will have an impact like RV RD KR or Marvin. Plessinger will be solid for sure... it was meant to be Webb , but that went west too.

philG wrote:

I have said this... the 'quit as champ early' thing that has become the fashion means you have guys that get to be the best guy by default. Herlings is the best guy because he smoked Cairoli this year, and maybe the next 2 ... he isnt the best because AC quit before Herlings moved into 450. I still dont think Tomac would be anything other than a 3rd place guy wiyh RV and RD in there, 4th place if KRoc hadnt spannered himself.

ATKpilot99 wrote:

That's possible but who is the next RV or RD ? Herlings is looking to be a game changer on the level of RC and Everts.

philG wrote:

I dont see one... it was meant to be Ciancirulo but he never really happened (great rider though) from 250 but i look at the 450 class now and dont see a 250 guy that will have an impact like RV RD KR or Marvin. Plessinger will be solid for sure... it was meant to be Webb , but that went west too.

I don't either . Forkner is fast but wildly inconsistent.

ATKpilot99 wrote:

I don't either . Forkner is fast but wildly inconsistent.

As Matthes says, good guys get overlooked for a proper ride because all the money goes on riders who 'might'be good. Forkner is another one who hasnt made it IMO with regards expecrarions.

Belg wrote:

i mentioned this already , this top athletes do double the championships in the time they get 25 ...so they are completely burnt up . (national championships in Europe are a JOKE compared to SX , believe me ) .

I dont know, unless you battling through LCQ each week, SX is low track time.

For the top guys, when they're flowing with the circuits I imagine it's pretty to ride a short qualy & a 20 min main & call it a night.

Obv it's way more brutal if your making mistakes, but for those top guys it not so much the case.

#62

Track time wise , the US isnt even close.. 1 day Nationals and SX at 40 mins a week..

I love when people start these threads! Let’s just talk about the same shit over and over and over again!

philG wrote:

I dont see one... it was meant to be Ciancirulo but he never really happened (great rider though) from 250 but i look at the 450 class now and dont see a 250 guy that will have an impact like RV RD KR or Marvin. Plessinger will be solid for sure... it was meant to be Webb , but that went west too.

Jett Reynolds is coming.

philG wrote:

I dont see one... it was meant to be Ciancirulo but he never really happened (great rider though) from 250 but i look at the 450 class now and dont see a 250 guy that will have an impact like RV RD KR or Marvin. Plessinger will be solid for sure... it was meant to be Webb , but that went west too.

ATKpilot99 wrote:

I don't either . Forkner is fast but wildly inconsistent.

philG wrote:

As Matthes says, good guys get overlooked for a proper ride because all the money goes on riders who 'might'be good. Forkner is another one who hasnt made it IMO with regards expecrarions.

Forkner has had his fair share of injuries.

I think he will end up having a really good year this year. At least 1 championship.

Ofcourse usa will bring more top riders in the future. its bound to happen! But sx always was part of the game and even though 80's and 90's top riders were healthy, they still quit before 30. Brad Lackey retired 30 without sx! Mcgrath lost his speed at that age also, even though he came back. I dont want to recycle a topic some of you want to let go, but im just saying facts, no speculation. And ofcourse im still gonna watch every ama race regardless the mxon, i cant quit the habbit!!!!!

Early retire is not a function of MXDN performance ! It is a function of riders get more money in the USA so they can retire early.. That is how it has been up until now. I think mxgp has changed that a bit in order to keep riders.

Beside the 1 weekend race results is not a confirmation of racer speed. One argument cancels the other. Ferandis was on the team the crushed the dutch team but he did not with the AMA championship.

The fastest rider on the planet according to this one weekend was Glenn Coldenhof but he did not win the MXGP

Jeff the hardon got a bad start one moto and ended up 3rd - Tomac got bad starts all weekend because of a mechanical bike issues but ended up 4th in one moto - So pretty close.

Riders come from the MXGP circuit all the time and they pretty much do not dominate AMA ? Lots of time they struggle. Rocksen came to AMA from MXGP and he was world champ and he still is top grade racer and he and Eli had some epic battles of which Eli won the outdoor part on 250F. KR would start well and ET would not and the plot was would he run him down in time ... So all these derived perception can all be negated by a story which proves the opposite. Eli has a different mental game and the MXGP circus came to the USA with a lot of moment as we can all see and they did very very well. RC went to MXON one year and caught Stefan and passed him and rode away ... it is all mojo - Besides Pichon that raced in the USA for a while from France was much faster than Everts but KTM pds ended his career.

The Europeans did earn the bragging right ! So is their right to brag about the results ! France is dominating !

I think the main reason is they had a bad day. Tomac utterly destroys all those guys at the usgps not long ago and all the sudden you think the top euro guys are 6 seconds faster than tomac? Give me a break

2 muddy MXdN races in a row and we can completely forget about every other meeting of ama and GP riders that has happened in the last 10 years. Unbelievable.

The only problem is the US riders had 5 weeks off since lining up at the gate while the GP guys came in game face ready from a race the week before. Mix in Monster Cup testing to add to the distraction and you get 4th-10th place performance and the MXoN. Practice and test all you want, There's nothing like lining up at the gate.

Steve125 wrote:

The only problem is the US riders had 5 weeks off since lining up at the gate while the GP guys came in game face ready from a race the week before. Mix in Monster Cup testing to add to the distraction and you get 4th-10th place performance and the MXoN. Practice and test all you want, There's nothing like lining up at the gate.

nailed it

Steve125 wrote:

The only problem is the US riders had 5 weeks off since lining up at the gate while the GP guys came in game face ready from a race the week before. Mix in Monster Cup testing to add to the distraction and you get 4th-10th place performance and the MXoN. Practice and test all you want, There's nothing like lining up at the gate.

France won with an American based rider and a rider on a stock bike that just came off of an injury, so he was arguably less prepared than any American rider

philG wrote:

I have said this... the 'quit as champ early' thing that has become the fashion means you have guys that get to be the best guy by default. Herlings is the best guy because he smoked Cairoli this year, and maybe the next 2 ... he isnt the best because AC quit before Herlings moved into 450. I still dont think Tomac would be anything other than a 3rd place guy wiyh RV and RD in there, 4th place if KRoc hadnt spannered himself.

Nah, rd even said himself it was too hard to ride Tomacs speed. He just didn’t have it in him to push like that anymore. Remember mm sand bagging so rd would get the championship.