impressed by the Ktm engines in RBSR

10/22/2018 4:03pm
Silencer. Leaded $50 a gal fuel. Prime jetting. Vforce.

Bike will BARK. But you can’t be any geek off the street to ride one. Gotta be handy with the steel.
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Moto96
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10/22/2018 4:30pm
Silencer. Leaded $50 a gal fuel. Prime jetting. Vforce. Bike will BARK. But you can’t be any geek off the street to ride one. Gotta be...
Silencer. Leaded $50 a gal fuel. Prime jetting. Vforce.

Bike will BARK. But you can’t be any geek off the street to ride one. Gotta be handy with the steel.
Young Guns. Classic 2 movies.
Jrewing
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10/22/2018 5:00pm
They were well sorted engine and suspension.
Can only dream of 2 strokes coming back
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JWACK
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10/22/2018 5:13pm
Silencer. Leaded $50 a gal fuel. Prime jetting. Vforce. Bike will BARK. But you can’t be any geek off the street to ride one. Gotta be...
Silencer. Leaded $50 a gal fuel. Prime jetting. Vforce.

Bike will BARK. But you can’t be any geek off the street to ride one. Gotta be handy with the steel.
So you think Team Factory RedBull and TLD KTM showed up with stock engines. Even after posting pics of engines out and on the bench? And then pulled Villopotos ripping PC Yz off the line every time. Not a chance.
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The Shop

Hcallz5
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10/22/2018 6:15pm
McElrath's story said his was 310cc "RV killer" Silly
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Denn700
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10/22/2018 6:40pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2018 6:45pm
“Ryan Dungey Back In Action” TransWorld Video.
Start at about 45 seconds and he says they beef them up and add extra power and the factory forks when talking about the 250.
jbrown15
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10/22/2018 7:18pm
crt32 wrote:
I raced a 300 KTM for years (250 was my practice bike) and the 250 is actually faster out of the gate, it revs quicker. The...
I raced a 300 KTM for years (250 was my practice bike) and the 250 is actually faster out of the gate, it revs quicker. The 300 shines from mid to top and pulls longer. So like the first roller section the riders hit is where the 300 would be a difference. But all of the speed checks a 250 would get to top speed quicker. And the Alta did look underpowered this year, even from the very start.
I have a feeling the 300 you raced probably didn't have much in common with their 300's besides the displacement.
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10/22/2018 7:38pm
JWACK wrote:
So you think Team Factory RedBull and TLD KTM showed up with stock engines. Even after posting pics of engines out and on the bench? And...
So you think Team Factory RedBull and TLD KTM showed up with stock engines. Even after posting pics of engines out and on the bench? And then pulled Villopotos ripping PC Yz off the line every time. Not a chance.
Nooooooooooo that’s not what I said.

I’m saying it doesn’t take much to make an insanely great engine even better. I give a small parts list and you read that as broad stroke sweep KTM under the “showed up with stock bikes” rug.

Responses like yours are why Vital is really rough sometimes. Jesus. Chill man.
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cable
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10/22/2018 7:40pm
zoom in on dungeys cylinder. looks like it has a 1mm spacer or a really thick gasket. or is that normal? would love to know the weight of dungeys bike
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JWACK
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10/22/2018 9:31pm
Nooooooooooo that’s not what I said. I’m saying it doesn’t take much to make an insanely great engine even better. I give a small parts list...
Nooooooooooo that’s not what I said.

I’m saying it doesn’t take much to make an insanely great engine even better. I give a small parts list and you read that as broad stroke sweep KTM under the “showed up with stock bikes” rug.

Responses like yours are why Vital is really rough sometimes. Jesus. Chill man.
Sorry Jeff. Thought we were talking about the straight line rhythm engines in here. I know what your saying though. If they were running 300s that's the set up I'm after next. Looked and sounded great.
jeffro503
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10/22/2018 10:00pm
I shot sone video with Dungey’s mechanic Carlos and Matt from TLD, they both said the bikes were stock. Besides pipe and silencer. I’m on your...
I shot sone video with Dungey’s mechanic Carlos and Matt from TLD, they both said the bikes were stock. Besides pipe and silencer.

I’m on your side and not sure I believe that. But video coming soon...
jeffro503 wrote:
Haha......Joe , pretty sure they were giving you some bullshit! Those factory built 250's we're Freakin' rocket's. I don't think there was one square mm inside...
Haha......Joe , pretty sure they were giving you some bullshit! Those factory built 250's we're Freakin' rocket's. I don't think there was one square mm inside those motors that weren't massaged in some way , shape or form. I know RV's bike was built about as extreme as you could possibly do , and those KTM's were stronger than that. And......the sound!! No stock 250 on planet Earth sounds like that.
aees wrote:
Conspiracy theories.... Why would they risk their reputation by lying about something like that? They could just say we don't know or smile and say no...
Conspiracy theories....
Why would they risk their reputation by lying about something like that? They could just say we don't know or smile and say no comments.

KTM US does not have race engines for 250 2t for mx and sx (enduro or gncc is not the same, totally different charisterics you want out of an engine). And if you start altering it you will have tons of work with jetting.
Risk their reputations? What?

KTM doesn't have " race engine's for their 2 stroke line up? You don't think they have those motor's gone through , cleaned up and running to perfection?

Sorry to break it to you....but a stock 250 / 300 doesn't pull OR sound the way those bike's were. In fact , there was a thread on here , that a friend of mine chimed in on , and mentioned the name of the guy who does in fact do motor work on these specific bikes! He should know.....he fucking worked for them!
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CPR
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10/23/2018 12:43am
If you believe those engines are stock you're dreaming. These are professional race teams we're talking about, they wouldn't be able to help themselves, building race engines is what they do! And remember the KTM 250 engine they're stating with has been the 250 2t HP king since at least the 90's.

Whatever displacement they were running, they're running primo race gas so they can up the compression and run a tighter squish which produces more torque, which is what you want on a track like that, HP alone does not make the best braaps. The biggest issue that holds a 2st engine builder back is detonation. With unlimited race fuel and a 45 sec run, that's not a problem here, (unless you're Pourcel).

You want bulk torque and rapid throttle response. The standard KTM expansion chambers good for a grunty mid range though you can bet it's cleaned up inside and you can always modify the header length depending on what characteristics you're chasing. The stock Mikuni is an awesome carb, just a little finicky to get the jetting spot on. That's not a problem when you're testing with factory mechanics. Add the V-force reeds, Akro silencer, open airbox and a few 'minor' things like a factory ignition setting, cleaned up and matched ports and cases with factory port timing and you've got a 2st that will bark.

Especially when you've got some of the best at twisting a throttle.........

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10/23/2018 1:03am
Lol vital never keeps giving, they hate everything Euro I don't understand what's hard to understand, the amount of RnD KTM has done compared to the other 2 strokes is massive, they're motors have been revised multiple times especially the 250sx they're not going to sound the same as a 16 year old motor.

And the chassis is developed and been revised to the extreme like 5 times since the Yamaha has changed a thing?

We can go on about what we read in reviews on two strokes but it's a different story when a pro is on one.
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Motofinne
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10/23/2018 1:23am Edited Date/Time 10/23/2018 4:50am
So it's shocking to some of you that a regularly developed engine from KTM beat a 15(?) year old engine?

Good god. The KTM engine has been better than the YZ for almost 10 years now and they are still developing it. Anyways, it was rad to see RV and RD race again.

Edit: It seems like the KTMs were 300s. Well then the big advantage makes even more sense. My point still stands though.
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aees
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10/23/2018 1:57am
jeffro503 wrote:
Haha......Joe , pretty sure they were giving you some bullshit! Those factory built 250's we're Freakin' rocket's. I don't think there was one square mm inside...
Haha......Joe , pretty sure they were giving you some bullshit! Those factory built 250's we're Freakin' rocket's. I don't think there was one square mm inside those motors that weren't massaged in some way , shape or form. I know RV's bike was built about as extreme as you could possibly do , and those KTM's were stronger than that. And......the sound!! No stock 250 on planet Earth sounds like that.
aees wrote:
Conspiracy theories.... Why would they risk their reputation by lying about something like that? They could just say we don't know or smile and say no...
Conspiracy theories....
Why would they risk their reputation by lying about something like that? They could just say we don't know or smile and say no comments.

KTM US does not have race engines for 250 2t for mx and sx (enduro or gncc is not the same, totally different charisterics you want out of an engine). And if you start altering it you will have tons of work with jetting.
jeffro503 wrote:
Risk their reputations? What? KTM doesn't have " race engine's for their 2 stroke line up? You don't think they have those motor's gone through...
Risk their reputations? What?

KTM doesn't have " race engine's for their 2 stroke line up? You don't think they have those motor's gone through , cleaned up and running to perfection?

Sorry to break it to you....but a stock 250 / 300 doesn't pull OR sound the way those bike's were. In fact , there was a thread on here , that a friend of mine chimed in on , and mentioned the name of the guy who does in fact do motor work on these specific bikes! He should know.....he fucking worked for them!
250 2t i said. Big difference in a race prepped 250 2t that they run in mxgp, and mounting a big bore kit
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akmx17
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10/23/2018 4:47am
Two of the biggest media guys said they were on 300s. Plus the pictures. Put it to bed.
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downard254
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Bremen, OH US
10/23/2018 4:52am
I shot sone video with Dungey’s mechanic Carlos and Matt from TLD, they both said the bikes were stock. Besides pipe and silencer. I’m on your...
I shot sone video with Dungey’s mechanic Carlos and Matt from TLD, they both said the bikes were stock. Besides pipe and silencer.

I’m on your side and not sure I believe that. But video coming soon...
I remember back in ‘86, one of our local pro’s riding a CR125 at a race. That SOB barked with authority and I came to find out that his dad had it jetted to perfection, and the rest of the bike was stock. Kind of makes you wonder though.
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just James
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10/23/2018 4:58am
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that KTM has a fuel injected bike, but not the SX model.
Moto96
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10/23/2018 9:17am
just James wrote:
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that...
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that KTM has a fuel injected bike, but not the SX model.
its not that critical.
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ratonmacias
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10/23/2018 10:04am
the current f.i. makes the bike slow and sluggish. maybe with more development.
Moto96
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10/23/2018 10:12am
the current f.i. makes the bike slow and sluggish. maybe with more development.
You're comparing the Euro version built for their emissions and street, which has a throttle stop and more restrictive exhaust for noise.

Anything else, they'll figure it out.

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FI2T
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10/23/2018 10:23am
I'd be down to buy a Dungey RBSR factory edition! Those sucker's sounded nasty!
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GuyB
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10/23/2018 10:30am
akmx17 wrote:
Two of the biggest media guys said they were on 300s. Plus the pictures. Put it to bed.
They did not bring a knife to a gunfight.
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Bearuno
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10/23/2018 10:42am
Rejser wrote:
Just think how strange it is that you can´t actually race one of these sweet 300´s in the 450 class... It´s sad really.
But, but, we can't have those poor little 450 4ts exposed to one of those big, Bad 292cc Two Strokes........ it just wouldn't be fair......Whistling

Handicap class racing needs to be done away with - Equivalency!
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clem
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10/23/2018 10:46am
just James wrote:
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that...
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that KTM has a fuel injected bike, but not the SX model.
Moto96 wrote:
its not that critical.
For any two stroke, jetting is critical unless you are referring to your weed wacker. Get the pilot and needle wrong and see how well those bikes pull through the rhythm sections.
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Moto96
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10/23/2018 10:49am
Rejser wrote:
Just think how strange it is that you can´t actually race one of these sweet 300´s in the 450 class... It´s sad really.
Bearuno wrote:
But, but, we can't have those poor little 450 4ts exposed to one of those big, Bad 292cc Two Strokes........ it just wouldn't be fair......:whistle: Handicap...
But, but, we can't have those poor little 450 4ts exposed to one of those big, Bad 292cc Two Strokes........ it just wouldn't be fair......Whistling

Handicap class racing needs to be done away with - Equivalency!
Dungey is our only hope of a somewhat current guy racing a 2 stroke in SX competitively.
I'd say at worst, he's 2 seconds slower, worst case. And that might just be out of fear of getting hurt.

It'll never happen, but who knows, he sure put the hammer down at RBSR. Dude can ride the piss out of a 2 stroke!
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Moto96
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10/23/2018 10:54am Edited Date/Time 10/23/2018 12:30pm
just James wrote:
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that...
Since jetting is so critical with two strokes, you would think that they would be the ideal candidates for fuel injection. And yes, I realize that KTM has a fuel injected bike, but not the SX model.
Moto96 wrote:
its not that critical.
clem wrote:
For any two stroke, jetting is critical unless you are referring to your weed wacker. Get the pilot and needle wrong and see how well those...
For any two stroke, jetting is critical unless you are referring to your weed wacker. Get the pilot and needle wrong and see how well those bikes pull through the rhythm sections.
I can guarantee you nobody there had perfect jetting. Not unless they were swapping brass from the day to the night which maybe a few with factory techs there with old 2 stroke knowledge have, but most had a setting and ran it.





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zehn
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10/23/2018 11:05am Edited Date/Time 10/23/2018 11:06am
Moto96 wrote:
I can guarantee you nobody there had perfect jetting. Not unless they were swapping brass from the day to the night which maybe a few with...
I can guarantee you nobody there had perfect jetting. Not unless they were swapping brass from the day to the night which maybe a few with factory techs there with old 2 stroke knowledge have, but most had a setting and ran it.





I see no reason why they wouldn't swap jets, it's not that hard. Hell, they could have had multiple carbs laying around with different jettings that they could just swap in as needed. We do that with our road racing bikes.

And not everybody rides a 2 stroke like Bubba. But I'm guessing you knew that already.
clem
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10/23/2018 11:15am
Moto96 wrote:
its not that critical.
clem wrote:
For any two stroke, jetting is critical unless you are referring to your weed wacker. Get the pilot and needle wrong and see how well those...
For any two stroke, jetting is critical unless you are referring to your weed wacker. Get the pilot and needle wrong and see how well those bikes pull through the rhythm sections.
Moto96 wrote:
I can guarantee you nobody there had perfect jetting. Not unless they were swapping brass from the day to the night which maybe a few with...
I can guarantee you nobody there had perfect jetting. Not unless they were swapping brass from the day to the night which maybe a few with factory techs there with old 2 stroke knowledge have, but most had a setting and ran it.





Yeah, I've seen him ride. I always felt bad for the bike with him on it.
The teams/riders spoke on the broadcast about re-jetting once the temps dropped for the evening runs. The main is only full throttle and they weren't running the bikes full throttle throughout the entire course. Don't want to start a debate but jetting is way more crucial on a 2 stroke, there is no way around that fact. Any dyno will prove that.
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zehn
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10/23/2018 11:23am
clem wrote:
Yeah, I've seen him ride. I always felt bad for the bike with him on it. The teams/riders spoke on the broadcast about re-jetting once the...
Yeah, I've seen him ride. I always felt bad for the bike with him on it.
The teams/riders spoke on the broadcast about re-jetting once the temps dropped for the evening runs. The main is only full throttle and they weren't running the bikes full throttle throughout the entire course. Don't want to start a debate but jetting is way more crucial on a 2 stroke, there is no way around that fact. Any dyno will prove that.
hur dur ride wide open and it won't matter

/s

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