how will motocross/supercross evolve?

Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 7:29pm
All riders scrub, make jumps that were not thought possible 20 years ago and are riding faster/lighter/meaner machines.

What new obstacles will we see in the future? How will riders get faster than they are already going?

Discuss
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newmann
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7/7/2010 11:31am
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I know, it's hard to believe.
RMZ819
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7/7/2010 11:43am
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports.

I would like to see the riders get there entry fees waved.. DC was all about that before he took the series over. I hope he can make it happen. WAIT!!! He is driving the car now. I guess he had a change of heart.
TeamGreen
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7/7/2010 11:43am
newmann wrote:
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I...
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I know, it's hard to believe.
I see where you're goin'...

But, Chassis? Are they better?
Suspension?

Btw, what did Roger's RH250/370/400's wheigh? (35-40 years, ago?)

The Shop

txmxer
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7/7/2010 11:45am
newmann wrote:
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I...
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I know, it's hard to believe.
considering the next step is electric scooters, I'd say you are right.

The tracks will be mostly flat with slight rises in 20 yrs.
Rewindcaz
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7/7/2010 11:46am
I think more thought-out and wider tracks will be the key. MX Sports can hire me to design tracks that will make the sport bigger than Nascar, but only a multi-billion dollar contract would speak out to me. So don't get your hopes up.

As far as the riders, just scrubbing harder. Really depends how the bikes/tracks evolve.
jaeckle
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7/7/2010 11:46am
newmann wrote:
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I...
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I know, it's hard to believe.
I would like to see the return of no limit works bikes at the Pro level.
7/7/2010 11:47am
Rewindcaz wrote:
I think more thought-out and wider tracks will be the key. MX Sports can hire me to design tracks that will make the sport bigger than...
I think more thought-out and wider tracks will be the key. MX Sports can hire me to design tracks that will make the sport bigger than Nascar, but only a multi-billion dollar contract would speak out to me. So don't get your hopes up.

As far as the riders, just scrubbing harder. Really depends how the bikes/tracks evolve.
Would having wider tracks with more 'race lines' be a good way for the sport to go? It would make racing more interesting no?
newmann
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7/7/2010 12:22pm
newmann wrote:
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I...
First off, they are riding machines that are way heavier than what they were 20 years ago. The sport is evolving backwards along those lines. I know, it's hard to believe.
TeamGreen wrote:
I see where you're goin'...

But, Chassis? Are they better?
Suspension?

Btw, what did Roger's RH250/370/400's wheigh? (35-40 years, ago?)
Of course they are better! Sure would hope so anyway.Smile The old RH250's were down to 168 lbs. around 1972 I think. Heck, since we are talking about backwards evolution, Jeff Smith's factory BSA 500cc four stroke weighed in at 198lbs. Add 50lbs. to that and here we are 45 years in the future.

newmann
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7/7/2010 12:35pm
Evolution, always had a difficult time doing this with the 2 stroke. Didn't take long with my YZ250F though!!

Adam43
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7/7/2010 12:39pm
If it continues on its path it will be just slightly bigger than roadracing within a decade at the amateur level.

The whiz-bang 4-strokes have pushed the costs of participation out of the range of the typical family. It didn't used to be that way. And they only get more expensive every year.

The first Chinese manufacturer that produces a somewhat reliable copy of, say a 2002 YZ250 and sell it for $3000 will save the sport from itself. The value will be too hard to ignore. While there will still be many who spend what will be $10K on a new EFI, electric start Jap 450, it will be in very small numbers overall.

A cheaper price of basic participation will lead to a bigger influx of new and returning riders, which will be a huge positive for a somewhat sagging industry.

Tracks and riding styles will change in small ways, but nothing major. It has been slow evolution in that respect since the suspension revolution anyway. There will more of an emphasis on safety.

I don't think that electric bikes will make that big of a dent.

MX45
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7/7/2010 12:43pm
I've been hoping to see more bmx style pumping/manualling in both obstacles and technique.



Racer92
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7/7/2010 1:06pm
RMZ819 wrote:
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports. I would like to see the riders get there...
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports.

I would like to see the riders get there entry fees waved.. DC was all about that before he took the series over. I hope he can make it happen. WAIT!!! He is driving the car now. I guess he had a change of heart.
Imagine a promoter charging the Rolling Stones to play a concert ! Charging the providers of the entertainment, to perform the show? Kinda bass-ackwards isnt it ?

A promoter should be making money off the front gate, not the back gate.
Ddavis
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7/7/2010 1:26pm
MX45 wrote:
I've been hoping to see more bmx style pumping/manualling in both obstacles and technique.



WHAAAAT!?!?!
agency399
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7/7/2010 1:26pm
RMZ819 wrote:
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports. I would like to see the riders get there...
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports.

I would like to see the riders get there entry fees waved.. DC was all about that before he took the series over. I hope he can make it happen. WAIT!!! He is driving the car now. I guess he had a change of heart.
Racer92 wrote:
Imagine a promoter charging the Rolling Stones to play a concert ! Charging the providers of the entertainment, to perform the show? Kinda bass-ackwards isnt it...
Imagine a promoter charging the Rolling Stones to play a concert ! Charging the providers of the entertainment, to perform the show? Kinda bass-ackwards isnt it ?

A promoter should be making money off the front gate, not the back gate.
Rome was not built in a day. DC cannot simply wave a wand and make fees go away. In time I bet you see the fees gone.....just like many other things he has fixed or made better in the last year and half.

But no matter how hard you work, how much more there is to do........there is still only so many hours in a day. DC will get there, but it will take time.

For now, I am going to enjoy the sport for what it is.........not the negatives, lord knows we could find that in anything and everything.
Bill163
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7/7/2010 1:32pm
newmann wrote:
Evolution, always had a difficult time doing this with the 2 stroke. Didn't take long with my YZ250F though!! [img]http://twostrokemilitia.jfn3.com/tsm_assets/Photos/4strokeposter.jpg[/img]
Evolution, always had a difficult time doing this with the 2 stroke. Didn't take long with my YZ250F though!!

Newmann is right cam and valve engines= 100 year old tech heavy and unreliable nothing new here just going backwards it's hurting the common man the future and the foundation of motocross.
Bill163
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7/7/2010 1:52pm
RMZ819 wrote:
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports. I would like to see the riders get there...
The sport will never evolve. The current system works just fine for the promoters and MX sports.

I would like to see the riders get there entry fees waved.. DC was all about that before he took the series over. I hope he can make it happen. WAIT!!! He is driving the car now. I guess he had a change of heart.
Racer92 wrote:
Imagine a promoter charging the Rolling Stones to play a concert ! Charging the providers of the entertainment, to perform the show? Kinda bass-ackwards isnt it...
Imagine a promoter charging the Rolling Stones to play a concert ! Charging the providers of the entertainment, to perform the show? Kinda bass-ackwards isnt it ?

A promoter should be making money off the front gate, not the back gate.
We have Lucas oil and Toyota as sponsors and still riders purse money is crap.There was a post here that a rider finished 15th at freestone in the 450 class and made $675.00!.for racing in what I feel is the toughest sport in the world. When asked why so little purse money the usual suspects here lambasted him protecting DC.Last place should of made $675.00.People are making money and it's not the riders.Is this Progress?

I also feel the amateur system is terrible but that's another story...
WORCSRacer
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7/7/2010 1:55pm
Ball bearings, the whole world is moving toward ball bearings.
newmann
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7/7/2010 2:04pm
Poor old 15th place can't even get any sponsor support because ten mill a year is going to some guy who has raced once in the last year and a half.

There are a lot of things wrong with this sport and I think a 125cc 2 stroke resurgence on the amateur and professional level would solve a few of them.

Professional riders at the national level paying entry fees has baffled me for a long time. Can't understand why that hasn't dropped to a minimal token amount or gone away altogether. That one is simple and doesn't require years of research and careful consideration. Charge a dollar more per ticket if you have to. I'd pay it, who here wouldn't? Also, who pockets the 20-40 bucks people pay for pit passes?
Moto_Geek
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7/7/2010 2:11pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
I think more thought-out and wider tracks will be the key. MX Sports can hire me to design tracks that will make the sport bigger than...
I think more thought-out and wider tracks will be the key. MX Sports can hire me to design tracks that will make the sport bigger than Nascar, but only a multi-billion dollar contract would speak out to me. So don't get your hopes up.

As far as the riders, just scrubbing harder. Really depends how the bikes/tracks evolve.
Wow, you think pretty highly of yourself..
CamP
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7/7/2010 2:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2010 4:56pm
A good quality 150 2T that sells for under $4k might help the sport grow a little.
Moto_Geek
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7/7/2010 2:20pm
I think your right on the manual and pump. I recently started downhill and 4x mountain bike competions and alot of the BMX & MX skill is crossing over. The table top manual is very impressive to see someone do it. I had my first pump track experience early this summer. What a blast. I was able to scrub downhill tables on my 8" downhill bike. It's kinda of sketchy. The weight of the dirtbike actually helps alot in keeping the bike stable between your legs. I feel out of control on a downhill mountain bike compared to my motocross bike.
disbanded
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7/7/2010 3:16pm
The next move that will revolutionize the sport will be called “The Tickle Tackle”.
KAWboy14
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7/7/2010 3:20pm
mx will go the way of the winter ams and SX will take over the world!


DONT kill the messenger, i am just calling it the way i see it, NOT the way i want it!
Boxvan446
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7/7/2010 3:49pm
I think having a "stock" and "mod" class similar to the amateur system would be a great benefit. Shorten the motos to 20 min and run two motos per class (meaning the same rider runs both classes). At least the stock class would elminate the constant dilemma between the have and have-nots. Or make the stock class the entry level class and keep moto length the same. Also, bringing back an entry level 2-stroke class would be great idea. Development on the super clean burning 2-stroke should be a "Must Do" for manufacturers. As stated in other threads, try and get away from the over priced modern MX bike. What if the manufactures start up production on 2000-2005 model year 125/250's. Still very competitive bikes. The amateur scene at the local level is dying quickly. The industry, whether they know it or not, is pricing themself right out of a job.
DavidR
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7/7/2010 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2010 4:52pm
Hopefully, kids will realize that there's only one GOAT who was able to ride that fine line of being controllably out of control. RC changed the game from one of going really fast with style and technique to one of twist the grip on the right side as far as it'll go and hope like hell you can hang on. It's amazing how fast some of these kids are going these days but we're seeing too many talented riders go down with injuries that are putting them out for extended periods of time and taking them out of title contention causing us to get on here and talk about "yeah but if so and so wasn't hurt he'd be the one to beat." I know injuries have always been a part of this sport we love and riders of the 70's 80's and 90's got hurt and some suffered serious injuries (Bailey, Chandler etc.) but it feels like it happens more these days to riders we feel should be competing for championships.
When these guys wad themselves up today it seems like it always results in missed races if not missed series. I hope the sport devolves back a little to where we were in the 80's and 90's as far as riders realizing it's important to go really fast but it's also important to be able to finish a series if the goal is a championship. Maybe I'm getting old or maybe I'm still mad at that kid on the 85 who chased me around the track for a couple laps and then took me high last Saturday and roosted me mercilessly as I watched him disappear. It's probably the latter.
Cory976
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7/7/2010 5:21pm
Hover bikes. Instead of how much "AIR they get, they will bee seing how much "GROUNDTIME" they can skip across! LOL!
observer
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7/7/2010 5:48pm
Boxvan446 wrote:
I think having a "stock" and "mod" class similar to the amateur system would be a great benefit. Shorten the motos to 20 min and run...
I think having a "stock" and "mod" class similar to the amateur system would be a great benefit. Shorten the motos to 20 min and run two motos per class (meaning the same rider runs both classes). At least the stock class would elminate the constant dilemma between the have and have-nots. Or make the stock class the entry level class and keep moto length the same. Also, bringing back an entry level 2-stroke class would be great idea. Development on the super clean burning 2-stroke should be a "Must Do" for manufacturers. As stated in other threads, try and get away from the over priced modern MX bike. What if the manufactures start up production on 2000-2005 model year 125/250's. Still very competitive bikes. The amateur scene at the local level is dying quickly. The industry, whether they know it or not, is pricing themself right out of a job.
Good points Boxvan...

They've got the technology for cleaner 2t emissions. They've had it for years on Merc and Yam 2t outboards, but they've bowed to pressure from global/environmental elites. No...they wanted to kill the 2t from pressure from the "greenie crowd". Nothing more.

Make no mistake, that was a pure political move. And no amount of common sense points/made or attempts to talk them into going back to 2t displacements will be heard. We're preaching to the choir here boys. Shame, cause some of these ideas are good and good for the sport.Unsure

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