good article on insurance and action sports

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12/23/2009 2:40 PM

since the other thread seemed to turn into a political/national pride debate, i thought i would start a new thread after reading this article. good read...

http://espn.go.com/action/news/story?id=4765263

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12/23/2009 2:51 PM

Good find, thanks!

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Twitter: @ftemoto
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12/23/2009 3:06 PM

Thanks, Pat.

And the other one seemed to stay on track, at least for a little while...

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12/23/2009 3:17 PM

That is a good one, for sure. You'd think that people in our sport would be more understanding of the needs that go along with our favorite activity. Then again, isn't the joke that no one here actually rides?

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12/23/2009 3:20 PM

Where's the other thread, I'd like to read it?

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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~ Samuel Johnson

12/23/2009 3:21 PM

Still no solution and I doubt any Governmental assistance will provide any. A good read but its like reading the book Jaws. I already know the Shark Dies at the end. If you make enough money as a Professional in your sport you can afford to pay the exorbitant costs and bribe the insurance companies to cover you. Since you are higher risk, it is hard to not.

I am not saying I wouldn't be willing to pay more for the coverage. I just dont think because what I do as a pastime - for my entire life mind you that I should be punished by the Insurance companies denying my insurance. If you are young, fit and have no pre-existing conditions you can get insurance, change any one of those and good luck. I have lied on more insurance forms then I have to Girls on dates. That is sad.

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12/23/2009 3:23 PM

Tiki wrote:

Still no solution and I doubt any Governmental assistance will provide any. A good read but its like reading the book Jaws. I already know the Shark Dies at the end. If you make enough money as a Professional in your sport you can afford to pay the exorbitant costs and bribe the insurance companies to cover you. Since you are higher risk, it is hard to not.

I am not saying I wouldn't be willing to pay more for the coverage. I just dont think because what I do as a pastime - for my entire life mind you that I should be punished by the Insurance companies denying my insurance. If you are young, fit and have no pre-existing conditions you can get insurance, change any one of those and good luck. I have lied on more insurance forms then I have to Girls on dates. That is sad.

And if they find out you were lying, they deny coverage on the basis of fraud.

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12/23/2009 3:26 PM

one thing i found interesting in there was the mention of a health insurance package for pro surfers on the tour as well as a pension!! i follow surfing pretty closesly and there was a big uproar this year as another pro tour was rumored to surface and was attracting the likes of Kelly Slater and other top pros. in the end it fell through but what it succeeded in doing was force the ASP (assoc of surfing professionals) into making much needed changes to the current World Tour.

I know there is insurance available to AMA pros, but from Regis' comments in the other thread it sounds like its pretty much garbage...

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12/23/2009 3:28 PM

Nerd wrote:

And if they find out you were lying, they deny coverage on the basis of fraud.

I am sure you have experienced this... Hobbled into the ER in gear, only to have the Doctor scoff at you, turn on his heel and say let him wait, he did this to himself? Antelope Valley Hospital, that very thing happened to me after I wadded up at LACR. Later (5 hours) a nurse practitioner was very helpful. Gave me an X-ray and said: "Go home, you have better orthopedists where you live."

I agree with you Nerd, I would rather ask for forgiveness than permission in those insurance cases. Eventually you find someone who will understand.

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12/23/2009 3:38 PM

Tiki wrote:

Still no solution and I doubt any Governmental assistance will provide any. A good read but its like reading the book Jaws. I already know the Shark Dies at the end. If you make enough money as a Professional in your sport you can afford to pay the exorbitant costs and bribe the insurance companies to cover you. Since you are higher risk, it is hard to not.

I am not saying I wouldn't be willing to pay more for the coverage. I just dont think because what I do as a pastime - for my entire life mind you that I should be punished by the Insurance companies denying my insurance. If you are young, fit and have no pre-existing conditions you can get insurance, change any one of those and good luck. I have lied on more insurance forms then I have to Girls on dates. That is sad.

Nerd wrote:

And if they find out you were lying, they deny coverage on the basis of fraud.

Tiki wrote:

I am sure you have experienced this... Hobbled into the ER in gear, only to have the Doctor scoff at you, turn on his heel and say let him wait, he did this to himself? Antelope Valley Hospital, that very thing happened to me after I wadded up at LACR. Later (5 hours) a nurse practitioner was very helpful. Gave me an X-ray and said: "Go home, you have better orthopedists where you live."

I agree with you Nerd, I would rather ask for forgiveness than permission in those insurance cases. Eventually you find someone who will understand.

I have experienced that.

But if you're paying for insurance based on fraud, if the INSURANCE company finds out (not the hospital), they will deny you coverage, and you will have been paying for nothing. They will not refund your premiums. They will simply say you're not covered and kick you out of your insurance program.

Then, at that point, what good does the lying on the application do for you? It's not about asking forgiveness, because they will not forgive you. It's simply whether or not they find out. So you either should be buying insurance at whatever price it would cost without lying, or if that's not available, just put that money in the bank for a rainy day, because paying into a policy that you purposefully defrauded is not going to end well.

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12/23/2009 3:51 PM

That's great stuff. I actually just had a pretty bad crash, a hospital visit, 2 CT scans, some stitches and a 9,000 total bill. I am unsure of what type of coverage I will be getting because I wasn't enrolled in at least 12 credits at that time.

XSi looks pretty intriguing. I think I am going to read into that more, and try to go with something like that.

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Osama Bin Mixin - Head of the 2-stroke Taliban

12/23/2009 4:10 PM

for all the folks that think this is the way to go. I have a couple questions.


1. What happens when the government decides that "racing or riding" is to dangerous and stops it all because it "costs" them to much.

2. What happens when they "cover" pre existing injuries, like by this new possible law says, but it costs 5x more then we are paying now?

3. What happens when they can't stop adults but then say kids can't ride becasue of the cost and they know better what is "right" for you kids.

I have to buy my own insurance. It's not cheap. I had to find one that didn't ask about racing which I did..... I don't buy a big fancy plan, but something that we can afford and well cover the big deductable. I am very concerned about our sport since people seem to think that if we all get this government coverage that their won't be any "strings" attached.

Sorry but anytime the goverment has "stepped in" well it's a mess. Now can they pass laws to keep prices in check? thats a start.

Then can stop this lawsuit bullshit.

AlSO the goverment can INCLUDE insurance industry like all other companies in the ANTI TRUST laws. currently they can monopolize the market and get away with it.

2000 pages of bull in a law that is more about perks then it is about taking care of the normal joe is just evening news crap.

in the end it will screw it up, cost more, and may cost many the sports they love.

how is that for a merry rosey picture.

happy holidays.

wardy

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12/23/2009 4:18 PM

wardy wrote:

for all the folks that think this is the way to go. I have a couple questions.


1. What happens when the government decides that "racing or riding" is to dangerous and stops it all because it "costs" them to much.

2. What happens when they "cover" pre existing injuries, like by this new possible law says, but it costs 5x more then we are paying now?

3. What happens when they can't stop adults but then say kids can't ride becasue of the cost and they know better what is "right" for you kids.

I have to buy my own insurance. It's not cheap. I had to find one that didn't ask about racing which I did..... I don't buy a big fancy plan, but something that we can afford and well cover the big deductable. I am very concerned about our sport since people seem to think that if we all get this government coverage that their won't be any "strings" attached.

Sorry but anytime the goverment has "stepped in" well it's a mess. Now can they pass laws to keep prices in check? thats a start.

Then can stop this lawsuit bullshit.

AlSO the goverment can INCLUDE insurance industry like all other companies in the ANTI TRUST laws. currently they can monopolize the market and get away with it.

2000 pages of bull in a law that is more about perks then it is about taking care of the normal joe is just evening news crap.

in the end it will screw it up, cost more, and may cost many the sports they love.

how is that for a merry rosey picture.

happy holidays.

wardy

Have any counties that have single payer health care outlawed racing because it's too dangerous? Not that I know of.

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12/23/2009 4:25 PM

wardy wrote:

for all the folks that think this is the way to go. I have a couple questions.


1. What happens when the government decides that "racing or riding" is to dangerous and stops it all because it "costs" them to much.

2. What happens when they "cover" pre existing injuries, like by this new possible law says, but it costs 5x more then we are paying now?

3. What happens when they can't stop adults but then say kids can't ride becasue of the cost and they know better what is "right" for you kids.

I have to buy my own insurance. It's not cheap. I had to find one that didn't ask about racing which I did..... I don't buy a big fancy plan, but something that we can afford and well cover the big deductable. I am very concerned about our sport since people seem to think that if we all get this government coverage that their won't be any "strings" attached.

Sorry but anytime the goverment has "stepped in" well it's a mess. Now can they pass laws to keep prices in check? thats a start.

Then can stop this lawsuit bullshit.

AlSO the goverment can INCLUDE insurance industry like all other companies in the ANTI TRUST laws. currently they can monopolize the market and get away with it.

2000 pages of bull in a law that is more about perks then it is about taking care of the normal joe is just evening news crap.

in the end it will screw it up, cost more, and may cost many the sports they love.

how is that for a merry rosey picture.

happy holidays.

wardy

Was it a mess when the government stepped in with regard to Polio?

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12/24/2009 6:41 AM

well we just fought all last spring a state representitive trying to ban all riding for kids under the age of 16, across the board, personal property, everything.

so if one thinks it's a stretch........................it's not to long of one.

Like i said, it seems like many think it's a great idea. I personally don't.





polio isn't a good example.

bird flu, swine flu, and global warming may be a more current better example?

take it for what it's worth maybe i am to old to know better..

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12/24/2009 7:23 AM

I have not kept up with this entire debate, but there is something you need to consider when discussing the healthcare issue.

There is a big difference in treatment by all insurance plans for "injuries" and "illness". The healthcare reform is all about providing access to healthcare, controlling medical costs, and finding a way to pay for medicare. Making sure everyone's emergency room costs are covered from sports related (or job related) injuries is not really on the agenda.

There will always be supplimental coverage (like AFLAC) and disability coverage to fill in the gaps, but that will be at the expense of the individual.

So if you catch a cold when you ride, you will be covered. But if you hit a tree, you may not be covered, unless you have coverage for various types of injuries. My insurance policies cover my son and I from riding injuries and AFLAC pays their part as well.

We do not race, and I am not sure if thats covered, but if we did race, I sure would find out about it. And I would never expect anyone to pick up the tab for my decision to climb on my YZ250F and fly.

Happy holidays everyone!

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12/24/2009 7:37 AM

Nerd wrote:

Was it a mess when the government stepped in with regard to Polio?

Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. But, of course, you knew that.

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12/24/2009 9:07 AM

wardy wrote:

well we just fought all last spring a state representitive trying to ban all riding for kids under the age of 16, across the board, personal property, everything.

so if one thinks it's a stretch........................it's not to long of one.

Like i said, it seems like many think it's a great idea. I personally don't.





polio isn't a good example.

bird flu, swine flu, and global warming may be a more current better example?

take it for what it's worth maybe i am to old to know better..

Polio isn't a good example because it disproves your point. That's the only reason.

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12/24/2009 9:11 AM

wardy wrote:

for all the folks that think this is the way to go. I have a couple questions.


1. What happens when the government decides that "racing or riding" is to dangerous and stops it all because it "costs" them to much.

2. What happens when they "cover" pre existing injuries, like by this new possible law says, but it costs 5x more then we are paying now?

3. What happens when they can't stop adults but then say kids can't ride becasue of the cost and they know better what is "right" for you kids.

I have to buy my own insurance. It's not cheap. I had to find one that didn't ask about racing which I did..... I don't buy a big fancy plan, but something that we can afford and well cover the big deductable. I am very concerned about our sport since people seem to think that if we all get this government coverage that their won't be any "strings" attached.

Sorry but anytime the goverment has "stepped in" well it's a mess. Now can they pass laws to keep prices in check? thats a start.

Then can stop this lawsuit bullshit.

AlSO the goverment can INCLUDE insurance industry like all other companies in the ANTI TRUST laws. currently they can monopolize the market and get away with it.

2000 pages of bull in a law that is more about perks then it is about taking care of the normal joe is just evening news crap.

in the end it will screw it up, cost more, and may cost many the sports they love.

how is that for a merry rosey picture.

happy holidays.

wardy

Nerd wrote:

Was it a mess when the government stepped in with regard to Polio?

WhipMeister wrote:

Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. But, of course, you knew that.

Uh, yeah it is.

If the Polio Vaccine had been discovered by Pfizer, do you know how much it would've cost? And because it would be so expensive, it wouldn't have been given to everyone, and by giving it to EVERYONE, that's how it was eradicated in our country.

And who paid for the research (hint: government-funded college)? And who paid to manufacture and deliver all of the vaccines to hundreds of millions of people (hint: "socialism")?

In the current system, if it worked this way when Jonas Salk made his discovery, we would still be dealing with polio as a real problem today. It's simply not something we think about anymore, thanks in large part to the U.S. Government and the American Taxpayer.

Apples to apples.

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12/24/2009 10:34 AM

Wardy, what company do you use that didnt ask about the racing?

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12/24/2009 10:57 AM

Assurant.

it didn't ask on the online form i filled out a few years ago. ( it asked if anyone raced professionally) which we don't. However in the forms that we got on paper it had a variation of that wording. I asked my agent who lives accross the street and he says don't worry about it. I do of course but being self employed its' a pain in the butt to find coverage.

Nerd.

I sure hope your thoughts are right and it's going to work so well. I don't like what the system has become today either, i would rather see laws to force insurance companies to be more competitive, rather then force us as a consumer to buy insurance, or be fined.

It makes the person who can't pay damn near a criminal.

polio was a different era, and different mind set. today people in governement are not anywhere near what people were like in those days.

again my opinion.

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12/24/2009 11:14 AM

wardy wrote:

Assurant.

it didn't ask on the online form i filled out a few years ago. ( it asked if anyone raced professionally) which we don't. However in the forms that we got on paper it had a variation of that wording. I asked my agent who lives accross the street and he says don't worry about it. I do of course but being self employed its' a pain in the butt to find coverage.

Nerd.

I sure hope your thoughts are right and it's going to work so well. I don't like what the system has become today either, i would rather see laws to force insurance companies to be more competitive, rather then force us as a consumer to buy insurance, or be fined.

It makes the person who can't pay damn near a criminal.

polio was a different era, and different mind set. today people in governement are not anywhere near what people were like in those days.

again my opinion.

I don't actually disagree with you in any of those points.

I didn't say it was going to work, did I? My take is that SOMETHING has to be done, and we've seen the fruits of waiting for the free market to fix itself. It has only gotten worse.

The only answer is government involvement.

I disagree wholeheartedly with requiring people to buy insurance when there are no protections for pricing through public options (the best chance of success, in my opinion). And saying that insurance companies can't deny you for pre-existing conditions (a good thing) but then not putting a cap on prices for such things, or doing anything to guarantee insurance AT A REASONABLE COST is not good.

Those two things working in concert create a situation where people with "pre-existing conditions" of almost any kind will be raped with very high prices by the insurance companies because the people will have no legal choice but to buy it.

That's not good.

So, to be clear, I think a public option is necessary to get this thing to work, but the reality is that the Republicans (and some Democrats, too) are against it for selfish reasons: Republicans because big pharma and insurance companies are influencing them with cash, and because they want to stop the Democrats from doing ANYTHING that will actually help the people, because all they care about is getting voted in again in 2010; and Democrats because of the first reason I gave for the Republicans.

Capitalism works with competition, but does NOT work if there isn't real competition, and there isn't real competition in the health-insurance market right now. A public option would create competition and would drive down prices and drive up quality, just like competition between TV companies or car companies does the same thing. But without the public option, and WITH a requirement to buy insurance, we're going to get majorly screwed.

But you can't really blame the Democrats for that. The Republicans who are threatening to filibuster any public option out of existence, they deserve the blame.

As for people in government not being as good, I'm not sure. Nostalgia makes us think things were better back in the day when they really weren't. At the same time the Polio Vaccine was coming about, Joseph McCarthy was trying to prosecute anyone and everyone for being a "communist", for example. That is a dark spot in our nation's history as a "free country".

But you're right about the different mindset. At that time, we had just come out of WWII and we, as a country, were a real community who cared for one another. We wanted the best for each other, so no one was freaking out about tax money paying for the polio vaccine. Today, many people are greedy and selfish, so they whine when someone brings up the idea that some people need help and aren't getting it.

I'm not sure if that's the difference you were talking about, though.

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12/24/2009 11:26 AM

Good post, Steve.

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Twitter: @ftemoto
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12/24/2009 11:45 AM

wardy wrote:

Assurant.

it didn't ask on the online form i filled out a few years ago. ( it asked if anyone raced professionally) which we don't. However in the forms that we got on paper it had a variation of that wording. I asked my agent who lives accross the street and he says don't worry about it. I do of course but being self employed its' a pain in the butt to find coverage.

Nerd.

I sure hope your thoughts are right and it's going to work so well. I don't like what the system has become today either, i would rather see laws to force insurance companies to be more competitive, rather then force us as a consumer to buy insurance, or be fined.

It makes the person who can't pay damn near a criminal.

polio was a different era, and different mind set. today people in governement are not anywhere near what people were like in those days.

again my opinion.

"it didn't ask on the online form i filled out a few years ago. ( it asked if anyone raced professionally) which we don't. However in the forms that we got on paper it had a variation of that wording. I asked my agent who lives accross the street and he says don't worry about it. I do of course but being self employed its' a pain in the butt to find coverage."

My stomach turned reading this. Too many times have I been screwed by an "agent" of an insurance carrier who said "don't worry about it". even my family friend fo years who meant no harm!

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"I think you're pretty slow, everyone else on here knew that for years."

12/24/2009 11:55 AM

What turns my stomach is "I'll just tell them I fell off a ladder if I get hurt."
Great plan.

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RyanDungey: Got things kicked off tonight to the 2012 supercross season, 3rd place, looking forward to what's ahead thanks to the KTM crew and all fans!
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12/24/2009 6:51 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/17/2016 7:37 PM

Nerd wrote:

Uh, yeah it is.

If the Polio Vaccine had been discovered by Pfizer, do you know how much it would've cost? And because it would be so expensive, it wouldn't have been given to everyone, and by giving it to EVERYONE, that's how it was eradicated in our country.

And who paid for the research (hint: government-funded college)? And who paid to manufacture and deliver all of the vaccines to hundreds of millions of people (hint: "socialism")?

In the current system, if it worked this way when Jonas Salk made his discovery, we would still be dealing with polio as a real problem today. It's simply not something we think about anymore, thanks in large part to the U.S. Government and the American Taxpayer.

Apples to apples.

Pfizer ?


Pfizer?


Even *you* know that Jonas Salk, funded by grant money from the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (now known as the 'March of Dimes'. Hint: They asked for dimes from plain old folk like you and me for their funding.), discovered the polio vaccine in 1955.


Shoot. It's even on Wikipedia.


Pfizer? They market it now. Didn't have much to do with discovery and gov't certainly had little to do with it.

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12/24/2009 7:08 PM

Moto East Mag wrote:

What turns my stomach is "I'll just tell them I fell off a ladder if I get hurt."
Great plan.

`that damn ladder got me like ten years ago. thankfully i burned that stinking thing.........


problem with being "honest" with all this riding and racing amatuer........you will be basically blackballed and won't get insurance. It happened to me when i was like 22, equifax some how found out I raced. Within a few weeks my company sends me the "see ya" letter. After that I couldn't find any insurance and went with out for many, MANY years. Very costly when having a couple kids we had to pay out of pocket completely.

so absolutely government has to do something, but not real sure if the current plan isn't any more the "politics as usual".

sad to say.

nerd democrats and republicans both are equally at fault in my opinon on all this crap.

I say throw all the bums out and lets have a "do over"!!!

where the hell is the reset button when ya need one!

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12/25/2009 12:09 AM

WhipMeister wrote:

Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. But, of course, you knew that.

Nerd wrote:

Uh, yeah it is.

If the Polio Vaccine had been discovered by Pfizer, do you know how much it would've cost? And because it would be so expensive, it wouldn't have been given to everyone, and by giving it to EVERYONE, that's how it was eradicated in our country.

And who paid for the research (hint: government-funded college)? And who paid to manufacture and deliver all of the vaccines to hundreds of millions of people (hint: "socialism")?

In the current system, if it worked this way when Jonas Salk made his discovery, we would still be dealing with polio as a real problem today. It's simply not something we think about anymore, thanks in large part to the U.S. Government and the American Taxpayer.

Apples to apples.

WhipMeister wrote:

Pfizer ?


Pfizer?


Even *you* know that Jonas Salk, funded by grant money from the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (now known as the 'March of Dimes'. Hint: They asked for dimes from plain old folk like you and me for their funding.), discovered the polio vaccine in 1955.


Shoot. It's even on Wikipedia.


Pfizer? They market it now. Didn't have much to do with discovery and gov't certainly had little to do with it.

I think you need to re-read that Wiki page. Yes, the March of Dimes was contributing for years to the funding for Polio research, but Jonas Salk's involvement is just as much because of the state-funded college (University of Pittsburgh) and his research grants from a particular rich Pittsburgh family.

And you're missing the point, which is that if a PRIVATE pharmaceutical company would've discovered the vaccine under our current system, they would've patented it and tried to profit off of it as much as possible, which means the disease would not have been eradicated.

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12/25/2009 12:09 AM

Moto East Mag wrote:

What turns my stomach is "I'll just tell them I fell off a ladder if I get hurt."
Great plan.

wardy wrote:

`that damn ladder got me like ten years ago. thankfully i burned that stinking thing.........


problem with being "honest" with all this riding and racing amatuer........you will be basically blackballed and won't get insurance. It happened to me when i was like 22, equifax some how found out I raced. Within a few weeks my company sends me the "see ya" letter. After that I couldn't find any insurance and went with out for many, MANY years. Very costly when having a couple kids we had to pay out of pocket completely.

so absolutely government has to do something, but not real sure if the current plan isn't any more the "politics as usual".

sad to say.

nerd democrats and republicans both are equally at fault in my opinon on all this crap.

I say throw all the bums out and lets have a "do over"!!!

where the hell is the reset button when ya need one!

Who are we going to put in their places?

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12/25/2009 9:28 AM

wardy wrote:

for all the folks that think this is the way to go. I have a couple questions.


1. What happens when the government decides that "racing or riding" is to dangerous and stops it all because it "costs" them to much.

2. What happens when they "cover" pre existing injuries, like by this new possible law says, but it costs 5x more then we are paying now?

3. What happens when they can't stop adults but then say kids can't ride becasue of the cost and they know better what is "right" for you kids.

I have to buy my own insurance. It's not cheap. I had to find one that didn't ask about racing which I did..... I don't buy a big fancy plan, but something that we can afford and well cover the big deductable. I am very concerned about our sport since people seem to think that if we all get this government coverage that their won't be any "strings" attached.

Sorry but anytime the goverment has "stepped in" well it's a mess. Now can they pass laws to keep prices in check? thats a start.

Then can stop this lawsuit bullshit.

AlSO the goverment can INCLUDE insurance industry like all other companies in the ANTI TRUST laws. currently they can monopolize the market and get away with it.

2000 pages of bull in a law that is more about perks then it is about taking care of the normal joe is just evening news crap.

in the end it will screw it up, cost more, and may cost many the sports they love.

how is that for a merry rosey picture.

happy holidays.

wardy

Do you really think that Americans have been, are and will always be a bunch of retards? Why would this happen and it has not in all other Western modern developed countries who have a much older history than the US??

1 - Has not happened in any country where health care coverage is mainly government run.

2 - They cover everything in those countries, even the "oh so American" "Pre-existing" conditions. The cost of health care is still way cheaper than here. Compare the cost of 1 night of hospital here and compare it with 1 night in France. Compare the cost of a ACL replacement here and compare with what you'd pay in Europe.

3 - Why has this not happen in THOSE countries neither. How old is Roczen?

If you still enjoy donating your money to insurances that won't cover most medical needs, especially motocross injuries, go for it.


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The Journey is the Destination