from some very "inside" people at the sx races

WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 7:34am
Trauma wrote:
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved...
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved in height, that's about what it would have taken to save Villo from his get off. No idea how IT9 went down so can't really sit here and throw blame about his crash (anyone have a good source on what actually happened to IT9?).

They DID listen to Reed and they DID change the landing, it would not be fair to sit here with the advantage of hindsight and say they didn't change it enough.
Did you read CR's blog post? Does it sound like he thinks they had 'fixed' the problem?
Trauma
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4/20/2010 7:38am Edited Date/Time 4/20/2010 7:45am
Trauma wrote:
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved...
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved in height, that's about what it would have taken to save Villo from his get off. No idea how IT9 went down so can't really sit here and throw blame about his crash (anyone have a good source on what actually happened to IT9?).

They DID listen to Reed and they DID change the landing, it would not be fair to sit here with the advantage of hindsight and say they didn't change it enough.
Did you read CR's blog post? Does it sound like he thinks they had 'fixed' the problem?
Nope, links plz. I'm just going of the footage (I get it a few days late in AUS).
4/20/2010 7:42am
Some moron will be along any second to say "Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About...
Some moron will be along any second to say

"Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About a meellion guys jumped that same jump about a meellion tahmz without hurtin themselfz. It's there oawn dahumned fault they got thesselves busted up".
You are the only one saying that, no true fan would. The fact is Villopoto and Tedesco were injured in racing accidents in St. Louis last Saturday on a track which several others also competed on.
BobbyM
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4/20/2010 7:43am
TriRacer27 wrote:
I'm not saying Reed's injury was from the tracks. I'm just saying that keeping riders healthy should be the first priority if they want the sport...
I'm not saying Reed's injury was from the tracks. I'm just saying that keeping riders healthy should be the first priority if they want the sport to attract heavy investment. There's already enough danger (example Reed's injury), and when a team gets stacked like Kawasaki did, it sucks that both of their riders got injured.

A sponsor wont care why neither rider came away with the championship. When Monster funded 2 of the top 3 pre-season favorites and comes away with nothing, it can not be good motivation for further investment.
Tri gets it.
either that or just get the "numbers" to race and fill in the racing jerseys with replacement racers when the original gets hurt

The Shop

Ozy
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4/20/2010 8:19am
Trauma wrote:
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved...
My thoughts exactly, he was very very short on that jump, I cant say for sure but I doubt Reed wanted the landing lengthened and halved in height, that's about what it would have taken to save Villo from his get off. No idea how IT9 went down so can't really sit here and throw blame about his crash (anyone have a good source on what actually happened to IT9?).

They DID listen to Reed and they DID change the landing, it would not be fair to sit here with the advantage of hindsight and say they didn't change it enough.
Did you read CR's blog post? Does it sound like he thinks they had 'fixed' the problem?
Trauma wrote:
Nope, links plz. I'm just going of the footage (I get it a few days late in AUS).
Reeds confidence was buoyed with a convincing win in his heat race but that momentum was stalled going into the nights Main Event. A combination of uncharacteristic clutch issues and obstacles on the track becoming potentially dangerous when no track maintenance was undertaken before the Main Event saw Reed err on the side of caution.

Having already been sidelined for 12 weeks while he recovered from a hand injury Reed opted to ensure both he and his KX450F finish the race without injury or damage.

By the end of the 20 lap main event this strategy proved to be the smartest option by far. Reed took the chequered flag in a solid fifth place whilst team-mate and championship contender Ryan Villopoto and rival Ivan Tedesco fell victim to the unforgiving and unpredictable track.

“The track actually became quite dangerous as there was no maintenance done before the main,” Reed explained.

“The approaches to several jumps were rutted out leaving no margin for error. A number of riders including myself did voice our concerns regarding a number of different aspects of the circuit but unfortunately for the riders the much needed track maintenance was not carried out.

“It was a simple case of me riding the race focusing on ensuring no unnecessary risks were taken because although I am not in contention for the Supercross title my main priority is defending my motocross title,” he added.http://chadreedracing.com/2010/04/reeds-road-to-recovery-continues-at-st-louis/
Trauma
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4/20/2010 8:24am
Cheers Ozy, odd that he states that no maintenance was done before the main but the broadcast showed work being done to the landing and said/speculated that it was a result of him voicing his concern. So who got their facts wrong?
Ozy
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4/20/2010 8:30am
Trauma wrote:
Cheers Ozy, odd that he states that no maintenance was done before the main but the broadcast showed work being done to the landing and said/speculated...
Cheers Ozy, odd that he states that no maintenance was done before the main but the broadcast showed work being done to the landing and said/speculated that it was a result of him voicing his concern. So who got their facts wrong?
Reed is addressing the rutted face of the take off jump and the maintenance was done to the landing area 3 peaks down
Trauma
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4/20/2010 8:33am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:16pm
Ah I thought it was about the steep landing (front & back).
SIMX
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4/20/2010 8:40am
Some moron will be along any second to say "Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About...
Some moron will be along any second to say

"Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About a meellion guys jumped that same jump about a meellion tahmz without hurtin themselfz. It's there oawn dahumned fault they got thesselves busted up".

Whipmeister duuude...xcellent pts brah!


Seriously, you're exactly right though!
IceMan446
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4/20/2010 9:13am
Crush wrote:
It was Vegas 95, the year the lights went out... Jimmy Eickel's first form of revolt! Anyone who thinks RV's bike wouldn't have handled that landing...
It was Vegas 95, the year the lights went out... Jimmy Eickel's first form of revolt!

Anyone who thinks RV's bike wouldn't have handled that landing if the ramp was round hasn't been watching all the other factory guys case jumps...

RC even cased a triple a few years back and rode it out, cause the ramp was round enough to get away with it!!!
He wasn't going to case the jump at all, even if it was rounded. He was in full on endo as soon as he left that lip. Like his pegs drug on the rut before the take off and that killed all his momentum. The landing was dangerous although I have seen worse but the officials need to listen when some one speaks up. And not a red head number 4 guy that's complaining about the whoops being too big!!! Haha
captmoto
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4/20/2010 10:26am
Someone mentioned it already, where is Jeff Ward, does that job start next season and will Feld/ AMA even listen?
WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 10:29am
Trauma wrote:
Nope, links plz. I'm just going of the footage (I get it a few days late in AUS).
Scroll back up. It's posted in this thread.
WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 10:31am
You are the only one saying that, no true fan would. The fact is Villopoto and Tedesco were injured in racing accidents in St. Louis last...
You are the only one saying that, no true fan would. The fact is Villopoto and Tedesco were injured in racing accidents in St. Louis last Saturday on a track which several others also competed on.
Really? I'm sure I could go back and lift those very same statements (ok, without *that* spelling) in comments about this subject since Saturday.
4/20/2010 10:34am
You are the only one saying that, no true fan would. The fact is Villopoto and Tedesco were injured in racing accidents in St. Louis last...
You are the only one saying that, no true fan would. The fact is Villopoto and Tedesco were injured in racing accidents in St. Louis last Saturday on a track which several others also competed on.
Really? I'm sure I could go back and lift those very same statements (ok, without *that* spelling) in comments about this subject since Saturday.
Okay you're on, I never said it and don't remeber anyone else saying it, but pony up.
oldx
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4/20/2010 10:53am Edited Date/Time 4/20/2010 10:56am
WhKnuckle wrote:
At the end of the day, though, Villo was way short on that jump. I don't know why, but even if they'd cut it down to...
At the end of the day, though, Villo was way short on that jump. I don't know why, but even if they'd cut it down to 2' high, he wouldn't have cleared it cleanly. I don't know what actually happened to IT, but I heard he crashed in the corner.

Reed was absolutely right about that section, and kudos for speaking up. But shaving some off the top and improving the landing wouldn't help Villo.
You're absolutely right, RV was toast on the take off, not the landing. His front end was dropping faster than the space shuttle. He would have crashed regardless of what anyone did to the landing area. All anyone needs to do is watch it again.

However, I agree 100% they should have listened to someone with the experience of CR. and fixed it to his satisfaction,
Then again, the track turns to shit during a race too,exposed concrete,ruts on jumps with exposed rocks,ect.
4/20/2010 10:58am
Some moron will be along any second to say "Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About...
Some moron will be along any second to say

"Dood!?!? It's a danjeruhs spoart! Separaits the men from the bohuyz! Go big or go home! About a meellion guys jumped that same jump about a meellion tahmz without hurtin themselfz. It's there oawn dahumned fault they got thesselves busted up".
SIMX wrote:

Whipmeister duuude...xcellent pts brah!


Seriously, you're exactly right though!
It's a dangerous sport. You really aren't going to challenge that one are you?

Seperates the men from the boys. Doubt you will find anyone saying this unless they are bitching about the track. If that is the case then are they still a moron?

Go big or go home. I don't remember seeing that one.

About a million guys jumped that same jump.... There were several posts that had it in there that several of the racers jumped the same thing and didn't have a problem. Once again that is a factual statement, do you have a problem with that one.

It's their own fault they got theirselves busted up. Several posts that attribute the injuries incurred to a racing accident and/or misjudgement. Sorry but that is what it was.
WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 11:26am
Alright.

1) http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Chad-Reed-arguing-with-tra…

You'll find most of those comments in that thread. I'm not going to dig each and every one out for you. They're there.

2) I just rewatched the race. Reed said, "The jump face is too steep," (I think he was talking about the landing, not the takeoff because that's what they worked over later). "the slightest little mistake will end in tears" when he was discussing what he said to Gallagher with Erin.

3) I single-framed Villo's crash. His front end didn't start to drop until he bailed. His feet were clear of the pegs by several inches and hands off the bars before the front end rotated down. Coupled with CR's comments, I believe that Chad believes that if that landing were a roller the chance of getting hurt would be greatly reduced. Since two major stars had their season end right there, I'd say he got that pretty much SPOT ON.

But for those of you who enjoy watching half-full gates, I know I'm not going to change your mind about anything.
4/20/2010 11:42am
Alright. 1) http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Chad-Reed-arguing-with-track-officials,895016 You'll find most of those comments in that thread. I'm not going to dig each and every one out for you. They're there...
Alright.

1) http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Chad-Reed-arguing-with-tra…

You'll find most of those comments in that thread. I'm not going to dig each and every one out for you. They're there.

2) I just rewatched the race. Reed said, "The jump face is too steep," (I think he was talking about the landing, not the takeoff because that's what they worked over later). "the slightest little mistake will end in tears" when he was discussing what he said to Gallagher with Erin.

3) I single-framed Villo's crash. His front end didn't start to drop until he bailed. His feet were clear of the pegs by several inches and hands off the bars before the front end rotated down. Coupled with CR's comments, I believe that Chad believes that if that landing were a roller the chance of getting hurt would be greatly reduced. Since two major stars had their season end right there, I'd say he got that pretty much SPOT ON.

But for those of you who enjoy watching half-full gates, I know I'm not going to change your mind about anything.
So, now you are not going to go back and lift them? They aren't all there! Nobody was jumping up and down with a gleam in their eye because riders got hurt. Look a couple of posts up, I tried to help you out with it. Just calling you on what you said. Have a good day.
Madmax31
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4/20/2010 11:46am
Alright. 1) http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Chad-Reed-arguing-with-track-officials,895016 You'll find most of those comments in that thread. I'm not going to dig each and every one out for you. They're there...
Alright.

1) http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Chad-Reed-arguing-with-tra…

You'll find most of those comments in that thread. I'm not going to dig each and every one out for you. They're there.

2) I just rewatched the race. Reed said, "The jump face is too steep," (I think he was talking about the landing, not the takeoff because that's what they worked over later). "the slightest little mistake will end in tears" when he was discussing what he said to Gallagher with Erin.

3) I single-framed Villo's crash. His front end didn't start to drop until he bailed. His feet were clear of the pegs by several inches and hands off the bars before the front end rotated down. Coupled with CR's comments, I believe that Chad believes that if that landing were a roller the chance of getting hurt would be greatly reduced. Since two major stars had their season end right there, I'd say he got that pretty much SPOT ON.

But for those of you who enjoy watching half-full gates, I know I'm not going to change your mind about anything.
AMEN! JC I'm sick of these babies! Wah the track was too dificult. Same bitchers that would be crying it was too easy next week.

God you people amaze me. WAH WAH. It's a dangerous sport and a few people got hurt. Hell fill in all the jumps and make it a flat track.
Ozy
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4/20/2010 11:54am
I doubt the top guys lap times would be much different if all the jumps on the track were table tops since they have so much talent very few jumps actually scare them. What does that say about the few jumps that do scare them - when the margin for error is so small that the slightest miscalculation ends their season.

Sure crash and burn is appealing from the perspective of a casual fan but does this element of risk actually put more new fans in stadium seats on race night?
WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2010 12:58pm
Madmax31 wrote:
AMEN! JC I'm sick of these babies! Wah the track was too dificult. Same bitchers that would be crying it was too easy next week. God...
AMEN! JC I'm sick of these babies! Wah the track was too dificult. Same bitchers that would be crying it was too easy next week.

God you people amaze me. WAH WAH. It's a dangerous sport and a few people got hurt. Hell fill in all the jumps and make it a flat track.
There you go. Any questions?
4/20/2010 1:20pm
Madmax31 wrote:
AMEN! JC I'm sick of these babies! Wah the track was too dificult. Same bitchers that would be crying it was too easy next week. God...
AMEN! JC I'm sick of these babies! Wah the track was too dificult. Same bitchers that would be crying it was too easy next week.

God you people amaze me. WAH WAH. It's a dangerous sport and a few people got hurt. Hell fill in all the jumps and make it a flat track.
There you go. Any questions?
Look Whip, if you are reffering to me this doesn't answer the questions for you. Since you don't want to go back and answer them, I'll let it go. If you change your mind and want to do what you said, let me know. Otherwise, I'm glad you're into mx/sx. Have a good day.
Ozzy
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4/20/2010 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:17pm
This type of thing is so so easy to avoid.
It is!
Each week, each race, get the top guys, heck 1 of each color, their team managers and simply have a chat after the 1st practice. Racing is dangerous enough. SX is dangerous enough. These things can happen anywhere at anytime sure I get all that. To long you say, or he came up to short you say, look, the tracks need to be challenging but not career or season ending. Difficult, but smart safe tracks need to become paramount. Between the 250 & 450's which are now the norm, it has to work & be competitive yet safe & doable for all.
Safe & doable for all. 250 & 450, hero to zero!
For me the issue & problem is clear as day, & I respect them all on all the sides that it takes to through together a SX race at this level, but to ignore dangerous issues, or not act accordingly is what it is, totally unacceptable. If I was in charge heads would roll.
Why? Cause it's always something. And this is major to me.
All the teams now that we're in the 4stk. age spare no expense motor wise. 4stks. can hurt people by virtue of the many moving parts alone, so none leave anything to chance.
The same work ethic needs to be applied here. I know the many and none I'm sure wish to see any hurt, top guy or not, & again it happens all to easy most of the time, but when the fire alarm rings heed the warning, and this time it was a band aid deal.
Piss poor judgement across the board.
Unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!
Dave O. Angry








BobbyM
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4/20/2010 1:23pm
There you go. Any questions?
goddam boy...yer a future predictor. hehehe...
Tiki
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4/20/2010 1:27pm


Bob caught a big one with this bait. Congrats Bob.
Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him.
WhipMeister
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4/20/2010 1:32pm
BobbyM wrote:
goddam boy...yer a future predictor. hehehe...
So's Reed:

Reed:

"The last jump before the whoops, it's just really, really steep and
pointy... the smallest mistake and it's going to end in tears, if not worse...
tried to give advice to mellow it out. We don't need to be carting people out of here."

[Later] Emig:

"... this is what he was talking about. After the first turn area, double, double, triple in.
And it was that sharp peaked last jump that he was talking about" [Bobcat on screen working the landing jump].

[Later]

[carting people out]

4/20/2010 1:38pm
Ozzy wrote:
This type of thing is so so easy to avoid. It is! Each week, each race, get the top guys, heck 1 of each color, their...
This type of thing is so so easy to avoid.
It is!
Each week, each race, get the top guys, heck 1 of each color, their team managers and simply have a chat after the 1st practice. Racing is dangerous enough. SX is dangerous enough. These things can happen anywhere at anytime sure I get all that. To long you say, or he came up to short you say, look, the tracks need to be challenging but not career or season ending. Difficult, but smart safe tracks need to become paramount. Between the 250 & 450's which are now the norm, it has to work & be competitive yet safe & doable for all.
Safe & doable for all. 250 & 450, hero to zero!
For me the issue & problem is clear as day, & I respect them all on all the sides that it takes to through together a SX race at this level, but to ignore dangerous issues, or not act accordingly is what it is, totally unacceptable. If I was in charge heads would roll.
Why? Cause it's always something. And this is major to me.
All the teams now that we're in the 4stk. age spare no expense motor wise. 4stks. can hurt people by virtue of the many moving parts alone, so none leave anything to chance.
The same work ethic needs to be applied here. I know the many and none I'm sure wish to see any hurt, top guy or not, & again it happens all to easy most of the time, but when the fire alarm rings heed the warning, and this time it was a band aid deal.
Piss poor judgement across the board.
Unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!
Dave O. Angry








Having a rep from each team sounds good to me but then I don't think it would cover your "zero" riders as well as the "hero" riders would be covered. I agree that they need to do something.
RACEGUY
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4/20/2010 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:17pm
It's a platform for a great idea, Dave.

At each round of our National series, we now have a meeting involving riders/teams, promotors, track builders, and sanctioning body before we send 'em to the gate for real.

It appears to be working from where I'm sitting. Better yet, there is a much better relationship between each of those little special interest groups now that they meet and talk regularly.

It's not all that time consuming, and may be saving a lot of shit.
Ozzy
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4/20/2010 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:17pm
I'm lucky to have been around back in the day when road racing greats like Freddie Spencer were honing their rise to the top while the even greater legend was schooling them all, and I mean the 1 and only King Kenny Roberts.
When Kenny spoke ALL listened.
Road racing is extremely dangerous, extremely!
Tracks, good bad and otherwise ALL listened.
In other words, his word was good enough for ALL.
Heroes to zeros, if there were track issues it was simply dealt with.
That same mentality needs to be had here regardless of,
scheduling,
time,
lack of time, whatever, make & take the time.
That's how you get it right.
This has nothing to do with the ease or difficulty of the track itself as some above seem to write. Build stuff that challenges them all. But as in anything, build them safe. The racing can challenge all the best, but as you tweak the set-up of the bike itself, they need to tweak the tracks as well. Can't have 1 without the other. When you don't, you have this. Multiple injuries from 1 event shouldn't be happening.
This is way beyond crying wolf every time a guys falls off.
Dave O. Wink
mjskier
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4/20/2010 2:41pm
SX is a lot harder to make safe than a road course though. For the road course you basically don't want to be hitting anything. So if a rider says "hey, this barrier is too close", or "this turn doesn't have enough run-off" it is probably pretty obvious to everybody.
But I get what you are saying. If one of the top guy says the track is dangerous, they ought to listen.
I would go one step further than your suggestion about team involvement after the 1st practice. I think a couple of riders ought to be involved up front in the track design. Both from the 450 and the 250 ranks. They have done it before. Wasn't it a couple or 3 years ago where RC, KW, and JS all designed one of the track? KW's had that big gap jump over the start straight.

Post a reply to: from some very "inside" people at the sx races

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