factory teams running throttle return cables?

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3/6/2014 1:04 AM

do factory riders use the return throttle cable?

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3/6/2014 5:41 AM

yes

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3/6/2014 5:49 AM

Why wouldn't they?

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3/6/2014 6:09 AM

Here is the better question, if they didn't.... Why wouldn't you?

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

3/6/2014 6:27 AM

RC's bike had it removed.

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3/6/2014 7:20 AM

i stood beside Windhams 450 in 06 at southwick it had one cable

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3/6/2014 9:46 AM

nytsmaC wrote:

RC's bike had it removed.

Yep, no need for it.

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3/6/2014 9:48 AM

I heard he removed the carb belts and muffler gaskets also, less restriction I guess.

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3/6/2014 11:04 AM

Take them off... helps with arm pump no end.

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3/6/2014 2:03 PM

nytsmaC wrote:

RC's bike had it removed.

Brent wrote:

Yep, no need for it.

Ricky didn't need the throttle to return.......ever.

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3/6/2014 2:39 PM

Honestly, is there a draw back to removing it?

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Motorcycle Body Armor
Protective Gear Built for Progression.

SAFETY--> = SPEED

3/6/2014 3:16 PM

Dungey Ktm has a return cable so does Barcias Honda and RVs Kawasaki and Stewarts Suzuki.
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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 3:27 PM

Yes it is needed.

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well we ain't the smartest folks in the world...i mean we're fucking dirtbike riders for christ sakes.- BobbyM

If you chose not to decide you still have made a chioce.



3/6/2014 3:39 PM

But my car doesn't have any??!!!

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3/6/2014 4:49 PM

They might be there but they aren't connected.

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3/6/2014 5:13 PM

chillrich wrote:

They might be there but they aren't connected.

thats what i was thinking, maybe they took the wire cable inside the black conduit out so it just looks like there running em
Theres a few advantages to not usinng the return cable, alot crispier throttle response on and off, smoother which gives less arm pump. why wouldn't a factory rider want that? I think the only way a throttle can get stuck when not running the return is from lack of maintenance, with factory guys thats on a concern.

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3/6/2014 5:34 PM

chillrich wrote:

They might be there but they aren't connected.

mauimotox99 wrote:

thats what i was thinking, maybe they took the wire cable inside the black conduit out so it just looks like there running em
Theres a few advantages to not usinng the return cable, alot crispier throttle response on and off, smoother which gives less arm pump. why wouldn't a factory rider want that? I think the only way a throttle can get stuck when not running the return is from lack of maintenance, with factory guys thats on a concern.

LOL How in the world would a EFI 450 have "alot crispier throttle response on and off" by not running a return cable ? where in the hell do you guys come up with this stuff?????? laughing laughing laughing laughing

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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 6:30 PM

lol ok forgot bout the efi part, guess i should of said a few yrs ago with carbs

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3/6/2014 6:49 PM

mauimotox99 wrote:

thats what i was thinking, maybe they took the wire cable inside the black conduit out so it just looks like there running em
Theres a few advantages to not usinng the return cable, alot crispier throttle response on and off, smoother which gives less arm pump. why wouldn't a factory rider want that? I think the only way a throttle can get stuck when not running the return is from lack of maintenance, with factory guys thats on a concern.

laughing laughing laughing
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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

3/6/2014 7:06 PM

chillrich wrote:

They might be there but they aren't connected.

mauimotox99 wrote:

thats what i was thinking, maybe they took the wire cable inside the black conduit out so it just looks like there running em
Theres a few advantages to not usinng the return cable, alot crispier throttle response on and off, smoother which gives less arm pump. why wouldn't a factory rider want that? I think the only way a throttle can get stuck when not running the return is from lack of maintenance, with factory guys thats on a concern.

you guys get some good stuff in Hawaii, huh? unsure

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3/6/2014 7:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/6/2014 7:38 PM

mauimotox99 wrote:

lol ok forgot bout the efi part, guess i should of said a few yrs ago with carbs

Makes no difference if its EFI or Carb. The push cable has nothing to do with crisper throttle response. pinch or even arm pump.When you let off the throttle the push cable becomes a pull cable and still has the help of the return spring so any added resistance is not noticeable.

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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 7:49 PM

lostboy819 wrote:

Makes no difference if its EFI or Carb. The push cable has nothing to do with crisper throttle response. pinch or even arm pump.When you let off the throttle the push cable becomes a pull cable and still has the help of the return spring so any added resistance is not noticeable.

I'm interested in the safety factor here. The extra cable indeed adds drag to the system. Ever tried removing a return cable to see how the throttle operates? Without said cable, I get that 2 stroke "snap" back in my 06 CRF throttle. While there may not be in increase in throttle response within the fuel system, an easy to turn, quick responding throttle, is just that!

I've wanted to leave my return cable disconnected, but fear a safety issue. I've read numerous times it's not a problem, but haven't taken the chance. There's no doubt there's a difference and especially with riders who suffer from arm-pump.

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Motorcycle Body Armor
Protective Gear Built for Progression.

SAFETY--> = SPEED

3/6/2014 7:52 PM

Those four strokes flow soooooo much air if you don't have a return cable it ups the chances of the throttle sticking or hanging up. As the vitards say.....STAMP IT.

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3/6/2014 7:59 PM

mauimotox99 wrote:

lol ok forgot bout the efi part, guess i should of said a few yrs ago with carbs

lostboy819 wrote:

Makes no difference if its EFI or Carb. The push cable has nothing to do with crisper throttle response. pinch or even arm pump.When you let off the throttle the push cable becomes a pull cable and still has the help of the return spring so any added resistance is not noticeable.

velocitygear wrote:

I'm interested in the safety factor here. The extra cable indeed adds drag to the system. Ever tried removing a return cable to see how the throttle operates? Without said cable, I get that 2 stroke "snap" back in my 06 CRF throttle. While there may not be in increase in throttle response within the fuel system, an easy to turn, quick responding throttle, is just that!

I've wanted to leave my return cable disconnected, but fear a safety issue. I've read numerous times it's not a problem, but haven't taken the chance. There's no doubt there's a difference and especially with riders who suffer from arm-pump.

Fire the bike up and see if there is any difference with the pull cable disconnected , I bet that 2 stroke snap that you had with the bike not running is now gone. You are correct that it could become a safety issue if you ride with it disconnected as it is there for a reason.

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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 8:05 PM

silver753 wrote:

Those four strokes flow soooooo much air if you don't have a return cable it ups the chances of the throttle sticking or hanging up. As the vitards say.....STAMP IT.

Good info, thanks for posting..

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[LINK TO IMAGE]


Motorcycle Body Armor
Protective Gear Built for Progression.

SAFETY--> = SPEED

3/6/2014 8:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/6/2014 9:20 PM

silver753 wrote:

Those four strokes flow soooooo much air if you don't have a return cable it ups the chances of the throttle sticking or hanging up. As the vitards say.....STAMP IT.

Correct and the style of pull on the slide is different also, on the old style carbs it was a coil spring sitting on top of a slide , pretty simple but on the 4 stroke style carbs you have a pulley system with linkage and barrel style return spring that have a much higher failure rate so just turning the throttle is a more complicated process to move the slide and like you are saying you can get throttle slide floating from intake flow but that is more of a deceleration lag.

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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 8:08 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/6/2014 8:11 PM

lostboy819 wrote:

Fire the bike up and see if there is any difference with the pull cable disconnected , I bet that 2 stroke snap that you had with the bike not running is now gone. You are correct that it could become a safety issue if you ride with it disconnected as it is there for a reason.

Thanks Silver753 and lostboy, that's something I hadn't tried. So, that brings us back to those that run only one cable. You don't think a single cable has enough force to overcome the incoming air flow?

My throttle, without the return cable, "snaps" back, With the cable, not even close. Nothing wrong with the cables...

How many here run only 1 cable? Please post?

I just want to hear of a person, who's tried the single cable and HAD a problem...

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[LINK TO IMAGE]


Motorcycle Body Armor
Protective Gear Built for Progression.

SAFETY--> = SPEED

3/6/2014 8:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/6/2014 8:18 PM

This is a must have book for anyone who does any tuning, even the sudco catalog has a huge amount of information on all the styles of carbs

http://www.sudco.com/Carburetor01.html

http://www.amazon.com/SUDCO-MIKUNI-TUNING-MANUAL-002-999/dp/B0055DM1EK

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Ed Johnson

3/6/2014 8:41 PM

velocitygear wrote:

Thanks Silver753 and lostboy, that's something I hadn't tried. So, that brings us back to those that run only one cable. You don't think a single cable has enough force to overcome the incoming air flow?

My throttle, without the return cable, "snaps" back, With the cable, not even close. Nothing wrong with the cables...

How many here run only 1 cable? Please post?

I just want to hear of a person, who's tried the single cable and HAD a problem...

There is something wrong with your cables.....

I tried this on my 350 tonight and there was absolutely no difference in ease of opening or difference in "snapping" shut.

Route your throttle cables and lube them correctly, running one cable is pointless.

I would also like to see real world proof of intake flow holding the throttle plate open, sounds like some solid vital theory to me.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

3/6/2014 9:18 PM

BobPA wrote:

There is something wrong with your cables.....

I tried this on my 350 tonight and there was absolutely no difference in ease of opening or difference in "snapping" shut.

Route your throttle cables and lube them correctly, running one cable is pointless.

I would also like to see real world proof of intake flow holding the throttle plate open, sounds like some solid vital theory to me.

I have never heard of a throttle stuck open from intake flow but you can get slide floating, but that is more just a lag in throttle response when deceleration but with a return cable its a non issue. Now I have seen people who have cut coils out of their carb spring on 2 strokes to get a lighter feel and when they bottomed out hard the slide would bounce up and take them for a real short unexpected ride. wink

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Ed Johnson