did anyone else catch this...

zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 11:01am
ok,so fox gear co. would not sign stewart if he did sx only. remember those days? l&m made it clear that they do only sx. so,if josh hill is on l&m,is he doing the outdoors? or did fox change there minds about signing a sx only rider.
|
Yaya
Posts
1114
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Wetumpka, AL US
Fantasy
2089th
1/3/2010 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:46pm
You know that is a good point. I would have to probably agree with the latter. The way I see it done though is he will have L&M parts, everything paid for, etc. but may do it with another respected Yamaha supported team. Similiar to the way Anstie and his ktm did over the summer with Jason's team.
jeffro503
Posts
27513
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
1/3/2010 1:38pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2010 1:39pm
WOW!!....good catch.....I didn't even think about Josh riding on James team , and the outdoor thing. I don't think there is any way in hell Josh would skip out on the nationals though.....no matter who he is riding for.
Alpine91290
Posts
123
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
1/3/2010 1:52pm
I thought it was that fox would only sign factory riders, and why they let Ivan go. I thought Tedesco mentioned that in an interview that GuyB did for vital? anyone remember?
RuFfRyDaH
Posts
250
Joined
5/18/2009
Location
Halle DE
1/3/2010 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:46pm
maybe they dont have to pay hill the amount they have to pay mr. stewart? anybody thought about that...so even if he's just racing sx, as of mr. hill, they probably got him A LOT cheaper then what they would have had to pay mr. stewart...and they do get good exposure with L&M...

i dont know, i dont think he's riding outdoors...never heard or read about it

The Shop

zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/3/2010 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2010 2:16pm
fox co. never said it was about money when they did not resign stewart.
also, i may be wrong, but i would think fox has deeper pockets than answer.
Jarid332
Posts
5334
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Somewhere north of Toronto CA
Fantasy
776th
1/3/2010 2:24pm
I don't know man. Answer is distributed by Tucker Rocky, which has I imagine has deep pockets.
1/3/2010 2:29pm
Did anyone else get the feeling last year, that it was more Stewart deciding to move on, and not so much Fox being the ones letting him go. Fox came up with the story of "we support the sport of motocross" Story to try and make themselves look better.
Now they have Hill riding for them, I guess they were hoping we all have short term memory.
Alpine91290
Posts
123
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
1/3/2010 2:35pm
Stewart was not let go, he left on good terms. He wanted change, thats why he left Fox and Kawasaki.
R-acer
Posts
4047
Joined
3/20/2008
Location
Toronto CA
1/3/2010 2:39pm
I was one of the first to call BS on fox's side of the story. I didnt buy it for a second about pullilg support because he wasnt doing the outdoors.
It's all Business...$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Shenzi
Posts
2588
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL US
Fantasy
617th
1/3/2010 3:00pm
RuFfRyDaH wrote:
maybe they dont have to pay hill the amount they have to pay mr. stewart? anybody thought about that...so even if he's just racing sx, as...
maybe they dont have to pay hill the amount they have to pay mr. stewart? anybody thought about that...so even if he's just racing sx, as of mr. hill, they probably got him A LOT cheaper then what they would have had to pay mr. stewart...and they do get good exposure with L&M...

i dont know, i dont think he's riding outdoors...never heard or read about it
of course it's about the $$. Stewart got a much better offer (money and service) from Tucker Rocky + Bell helmets + Alpinestars boots than what Fox was offering for a head-to-toe deal, and he took the better offer. Fox then comes back with some good PR about the SX vs the SX + MX deal, but who's really naive to believe it's true.

JH75 is not doing the Nationals (maybe some on his own) but will be doing the X Games' SX race.
zippy895
Posts
5495
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
1/3/2010 3:55pm
whats the reason for sponsor co.'s or riders to lie. if fox didnt want to sign stewart because he asked for more than they wanted to give, they could of said 'it wasnt in our budget' or 'couldnt come to terms'.if stewart wanted to move on ,he could of said to fox......nothing.just go to other sponsors. he is in control of this sport right now and they all know it. instead he says i wish i could of stayed with fox,been with them from the beginnig.
geeess,war may break out if people started telling the truth in this world.
Jake-247
Posts
947
Joined
10/21/2009
Location
Queensland AU
1/3/2010 4:50pm
Whoever says its not about money is lying.
Alpine91290
Posts
123
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
1/3/2010 5:07pm
Jake-247 wrote:
Whoever says its not about money is lying.
With this economy, you can bet your ass its all about the money. Its a struggle to stay alive at this point
Alpine91290
Posts
123
Joined
10/23/2009
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
1/3/2010 5:08pm
RuFfRyDaH wrote:
maybe they dont have to pay hill the amount they have to pay mr. stewart? anybody thought about that...so even if he's just racing sx, as...
maybe they dont have to pay hill the amount they have to pay mr. stewart? anybody thought about that...so even if he's just racing sx, as of mr. hill, they probably got him A LOT cheaper then what they would have had to pay mr. stewart...and they do get good exposure with L&M...

i dont know, i dont think he's riding outdoors...never heard or read about it
Shenzi wrote:
of course it's about the $$. Stewart got a much better offer (money and service) from Tucker Rocky + Bell helmets + Alpinestars boots than what...
of course it's about the $$. Stewart got a much better offer (money and service) from Tucker Rocky + Bell helmets + Alpinestars boots than what Fox was offering for a head-to-toe deal, and he took the better offer. Fox then comes back with some good PR about the SX vs the SX + MX deal, but who's really naive to believe it's true.

JH75 is not doing the Nationals (maybe some on his own) but will be doing the X Games' SX race.
Hill always does X Games, so he should be there again this year. Good payout if you win, Hansen made about $40k from X Games this year
Casemark
Posts
206
Joined
11/28/2009
Location
CA US
1/4/2010 12:34am
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX was jacking with Bubba during negotiations and he pulled the plug and went and signed with Answer. FOX thought he was a lifer and wouldn't leave no matter what they did or how many times they lied to him. It wasn't that Bubba wanted to leave FOX, but more like he couldn't stay there with everyone at FOX not being truthful with him.
Casemark
Posts
206
Joined
11/28/2009
Location
CA US
1/4/2010 12:38am
Actually the post was about Hill signing with FOX, even thou he's doing Supercross only. I guess FOX had a change of heart and saw how much exposure Supercross gets, even when I rider doesn't do the Outdoor part of the year.

Maybe they should have not been so quick to start BS-ing Bubba when he said he was going to do Supercross only. I'm sure they're sorry they sucked him over now.
FastEddy
Posts
13609
Joined
8/3/2008
Location
., FL US
Fantasy
322nd
1/4/2010 1:32am Edited Date/Time 1/4/2010 1:33am
Casemark wrote:
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX...
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX was jacking with Bubba during negotiations and he pulled the plug and went and signed with Answer. FOX thought he was a lifer and wouldn't leave no matter what they did or how many times they lied to him. It wasn't that Bubba wanted to leave FOX, but more like he couldn't stay there with everyone at FOX not being truthful with him.
Makes sense.

I can remember James not being happy about Fox's PR on the topic of why he left.
04RC51
Posts
47
Joined
8/11/2009
Location
New York, NY US
1/4/2010 3:41am
I thought Stewart wanted his own line of gear and Fox wouldn't let him have a JS line. So now they don't have the best rider on the planet wearing Fox gear but Answer has a "JS Collection" line of gear on the racks.

Fox gear looks like pastel vomit anyway.
gea521
Posts
39
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
1/4/2010 5:44am
Casemark wrote:
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX...
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX was jacking with Bubba during negotiations and he pulled the plug and went and signed with Answer. FOX thought he was a lifer and wouldn't leave no matter what they did or how many times they lied to him. It wasn't that Bubba wanted to leave FOX, but more like he couldn't stay there with everyone at FOX not being truthful with him.
Your only partially correct. First that negotiation went on for many months. If you think both sides don't twist things and bluff or "lie", your crazy. Thats the nature of negotiating those contracts at that level. After things started looking like they may not come to an agreement, fox made Dungey an offer while still working on James deal to secure a top guy. This was before the FC deal as well. This was also when Ryan was training with James and why that got weird as well. The Stewarts got pissed at this and bailed. It probably all worked out in Fox's favor. Right after that the economy took a hard dive and Answer/TR got stuck with a big bill for Stewart with gear sales at an all time low for everyone. There is no way they are getting their ROI on him at this point with sales down like they are. Of course both sides tried to do damage control, pretty normal when things go south like that. No one rider controls the sport, the companies do. James is the man right now but companies like Thor and Fox have been through this time and time again. Look at the staple of riders fox has had over the years. Everytime they lose a guy everyone thinks the company is screwed but this hardly effects much more then bragging rights.
Shenzi
Posts
2588
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL US
Fantasy
617th
1/4/2010 6:18am
Casemark wrote:
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX...
It's so funny to hear you guys guess at what and why James Stewart isn't riding for FOX. But not one of you are correct. FOX was jacking with Bubba during negotiations and he pulled the plug and went and signed with Answer. FOX thought he was a lifer and wouldn't leave no matter what they did or how many times they lied to him. It wasn't that Bubba wanted to leave FOX, but more like he couldn't stay there with everyone at FOX not being truthful with him.
gea521 wrote:
Your only partially correct. First that negotiation went on for many months. If you think both sides don't twist things and bluff or "lie", your crazy...
Your only partially correct. First that negotiation went on for many months. If you think both sides don't twist things and bluff or "lie", your crazy. Thats the nature of negotiating those contracts at that level. After things started looking like they may not come to an agreement, fox made Dungey an offer while still working on James deal to secure a top guy. This was before the FC deal as well. This was also when Ryan was training with James and why that got weird as well. The Stewarts got pissed at this and bailed. It probably all worked out in Fox's favor. Right after that the economy took a hard dive and Answer/TR got stuck with a big bill for Stewart with gear sales at an all time low for everyone. There is no way they are getting their ROI on him at this point with sales down like they are. Of course both sides tried to do damage control, pretty normal when things go south like that. No one rider controls the sport, the companies do. James is the man right now but companies like Thor and Fox have been through this time and time again. Look at the staple of riders fox has had over the years. Everytime they lose a guy everyone thinks the company is screwed but this hardly effects much more then bragging rights.
and Dungey was all One Ind. a didn't change to Fox until after A1 and the J-Law drama ?! Are you sure about what you wrote? JS7 was already confirmed at Answer Racing before September '08. At the time Dungey became a One Ind. rider.

Actually as far as sales, if you have the nationwide dealer numbers, I wouldn't be so sure that Answer didn't start to make the ROI and I wouldn't be so sure that Fox's number are not on the down, surely for different reasons.
gea521
Posts
39
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
1/4/2010 7:11am
Dungey didn't take the fox offer initially and went with One, until the Jlaw deal happened then that opened that back up.
FastEddy
Posts
13609
Joined
8/3/2008
Location
., FL US
Fantasy
322nd
1/4/2010 7:40am
Shenzi wrote:
and Dungey was all One Ind. a didn't change to Fox until after A1 and the J-Law drama ?! Are you sure about what you wrote...
and Dungey was all One Ind. a didn't change to Fox until after A1 and the J-Law drama ?! Are you sure about what you wrote? JS7 was already confirmed at Answer Racing before September '08. At the time Dungey became a One Ind. rider.

Actually as far as sales, if you have the nationwide dealer numbers, I wouldn't be so sure that Answer didn't start to make the ROI and I wouldn't be so sure that Fox's number are not on the down, surely for different reasons.
Yep....
If I remember correctly One Ind. had a huge PR and everything about Dungey in the fall well before the season even started....
MX4Fun
Posts
3
Joined
1/4/2010
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
1/4/2010 7:52am
Here is the real story. James continually started asking Fox to renew his contract 6 months prior to the expiration date. The marketing guy Jim Anfuso, the biggest poser tool bag Fox has ever hired, continually blew him off by not returning phone calls. James then went around Anfuso, and started calling Pete Fox directly. Again, kept getting the big blow off. James was supposed to be a Groomsman in Pete’s wedding, but because he was not shown any respect at all, James decided not to attend the wedding, on his only free weekend during the 08 outdoor season. Needless to say Fox let personal emotions kill the deal. James was also not too stoked on Fox, as he saw Motocross no longer being a priority for the company. In short, this was the biggest blunder ever by Fox, now the are scrambling to fill the void.
gea521
Posts
39
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
1/4/2010 8:04am
MX4Fun wrote:
Here is the real story. James continually started asking Fox to renew his contract 6 months prior to the expiration date. The marketing guy Jim Anfuso...
Here is the real story. James continually started asking Fox to renew his contract 6 months prior to the expiration date. The marketing guy Jim Anfuso, the biggest poser tool bag Fox has ever hired, continually blew him off by not returning phone calls. James then went around Anfuso, and started calling Pete Fox directly. Again, kept getting the big blow off. James was supposed to be a Groomsman in Pete’s wedding, but because he was not shown any respect at all, James decided not to attend the wedding, on his only free weekend during the 08 outdoor season. Needless to say Fox let personal emotions kill the deal. James was also not too stoked on Fox, as he saw Motocross no longer being a priority for the company. In short, this was the biggest blunder ever by Fox, now the are scrambling to fill the void.
Wasn't gonna go that deep into it, no need to trash people like that.
DrSweden
Posts
6767
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm SE
1/4/2010 8:22am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:46pm
Fox wanted SX and MX, remember Stew was supposed to do some Nats, even some GPs, as I get it was because Fox likes the MX-exposure. They figure we maggots watching MX actually buy gear, while SX-people probably don't as much (they like beer)? How on earth did the guy rejecting Nelson Mandelas invitation doing the South African GP turn around and now thinking of doing som GPs (Him doing some GPs was all over the net)In Stew case I always think; "follow the money"...

Because then Stew suddenly got a deal with Answer, and this talk about doing some MX went up in the air. I remember reading a PR (usually BS) letter from Fox where THEY say no to Stew and they said the reason was because his SX only deal, which killed their interest (for that amount of cash).

I have no facts supporting this all shit, but it totally make sense and so far I haven't heard any better story...

Fox have more cash than Stew and will probably contiune doing business after me and Stew is long dead, so they call the shit I assume.

This have been suggested a few times before.

I think L&M think MX sux balls since there's not enough cash, but if the rider is "forced" by other sponsors they give the bloke a ride.
Shenzi
Posts
2588
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL US
Fantasy
617th
1/4/2010 10:06am
DrSweden wrote:
Fox wanted SX and MX, remember Stew was supposed to do some Nats, even some GPs, as I get it was because Fox likes the MX-exposure...
Fox wanted SX and MX, remember Stew was supposed to do some Nats, even some GPs, as I get it was because Fox likes the MX-exposure. They figure we maggots watching MX actually buy gear, while SX-people probably don't as much (they like beer)? How on earth did the guy rejecting Nelson Mandelas invitation doing the South African GP turn around and now thinking of doing som GPs (Him doing some GPs was all over the net)In Stew case I always think; "follow the money"...

Because then Stew suddenly got a deal with Answer, and this talk about doing some MX went up in the air. I remember reading a PR (usually BS) letter from Fox where THEY say no to Stew and they said the reason was because his SX only deal, which killed their interest (for that amount of cash).

I have no facts supporting this all shit, but it totally make sense and so far I haven't heard any better story...

Fox have more cash than Stew and will probably contiune doing business after me and Stew is long dead, so they call the shit I assume.

This have been suggested a few times before.

I think L&M think MX sux balls since there's not enough cash, but if the rider is "forced" by other sponsors they give the bloke a ride.
some of the posters above are very close to the deal. They already explained what went down.
1/4/2010 10:25am
I have no idea as to what happened with JBS and Fox, but I can speculate with the best of them.....

When I started seeing Fox hoodies and T-shirts at Ross department stores (discount chain) for 1/2 of the retail price, I knew the economy was having an effect on everyone, even on an extreme sports outfitter powerhouse like Fox.

The only reason you don't return JBS calls is that you have no intention on re-signing him. Thats the only reason to me that makes any sense at all. If Fox wanted JBS back on the payroll, he would be back on the payroll. Same with Reed and Suzuki and IT9 with Honda.

Cutting costs is cutting costs. ROI with advertising takes a backseat to keeping a company profitable. Retailers know how the economy works. Having JBS as a poster child for 2009 more than likely would not have helped them sell Fox T-shirts at Pac-Sun at the mall. And it would not have helped them sell more gear to us when we were all stretching our pennies for one reason or another.

Look at how many rider/team/sponsor relationships were not resigned in 2009. It was about money. They had no choice in most cases. So no matter how deep Fox's pockets are, as long as I can get a Fox T-shirt for $9.99 (and hoody for $23.99) at Ross any day of the week, I am guessing they will not be paying top dollar for top riders to pitch their goods. I bet if JBS thought he could have gotten more money from Fox, with our without royalties from his own JBS colection, his "new direction" may not have been so new.

Just my thoughts.
DrSweden
Posts
6767
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm SE
1/4/2010 12:35pm Edited Date/Time 1/4/2010 12:37pm
Shenzi wrote:
some of the posters above are very close to the deal. They already explained what went down.
Yes, giving the thread some more attention made me relieze that as well. Not totally sure who these guys close to thruth are, but I guess there's a reason why mx4fun first post became this thread...
TeamGreen
Posts
31748
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
1/4/2010 1:23pm
I think James is doin' jus' fine...

Seperate deals for Helmet, Gear, Boots...etc. isn't hurting him one lil' bit.

I'm jus' sayin'...

Post a reply to: did anyone else catch this...

The Latest