Zero-emission doesn't mean it has to be an electric motorcycle

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11/30/2020 10:06 PM

Random thought tonight: an internal combustion engine could burn hydrogen or many other substances and produce carbon-free emissions (burning hydrogen creates H2O). It doesn't have to be an electric engine to comply with zero-emission mandates (electric changes the entire nature of the machine and sport).
The conversion to ZEV doesn't have to mean elimination of internal combustion engines. Someone call Elon Musk.

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11/30/2020 11:14 PM

Sierra Ranger wrote:

Random thought tonight: an internal combustion engine could burn hydrogen or many other substances and produce carbon-free ...more

I’m honestly surprised the focus has been more on electric than hydrogen.

I thought 10 years ago it would take off but then went stale.

It’d be pretty damn complex to implement a hydrogen system onto a motocross bike though.

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12/1/2020 12:32 AM

I think you will find storage transport and production of hydrogen isn't easy. If u have a leak on your fuel tank of a dirtbike you will be horribly burnt. Hydrogen will disappear and only be used in things like rockets etc.

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12/1/2020 1:34 AM

Hydrogen is the answer but as kyle173 has stated, the issue is not how to use it as fuel but how to store it and transport it safely. If it wasn’t for that we’d all be using hydrogen now.

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12/1/2020 3:00 AM

There is already a high performance, zero emissions fuel. You don’t even have to make any changes to your motor. Just pour it in, and it burns completely clean.

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12/1/2020 3:03 AM

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12/1/2020 3:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/1/2020 3:19 AM

Pink wrote:

There is already a high performance, zero emissions fuel. You don’t even have to make any changes to your motor. Just pour it ...more

Personally not convinced.

They skimmed over one very crutial part.
HOW DO YOU EXTRACT CARBON FROM CO2? CO2 by itself is pretty happy to stick in its form (if i'm not mistaken). How much electricity you consume to produce the oil? The fan on the top of that building does not rotate due to the goodwill of all ecofascist on the earth, i assume.

It is "easy" to make basically anything from anything but you need to account all the energy you need for transport & transformation of stuff. Not speaking about that the production of electricity around the world is not green by any means.

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the ultimate MX renegade from the east shore of the big cold pond

12/1/2020 4:14 AM

There is no such thing as zero emissions. I saw a Tesla the other day with a Zero Emissions license plate on the front. No moron. The power plant 15 miles from here is shoveling coal in to burner to make electricity to charge your batteries.

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12/1/2020 5:35 AM

Question: why do we care? Do dirtbikes contribute to even a fraction of a percent of the worlds emissions?

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

12/1/2020 5:44 AM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Question: why do we care? Do dirtbikes contribute to even a fraction of a percent of the worlds emissions?

They probably contribute .00000000000001%

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12/1/2020 6:04 AM

Still a way away but the only viable solution. Electric is a joke.

There are four basic issues regarding hydrogen-fueled engines and vehicles: engine backfire and susceptibility of hydrogen to surface ignition, somewhat reduced engine power, high nitric oxide (NOx) emissions, and the problem of on-board storage of the fuel and safety. Although partial solutions have been found to most of these problems, there still is no general consensus of the best method to finally resolve all of these issues.

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12/1/2020 6:08 AM

Gordon Liddy wrote:

There is no such thing as zero emissions. I saw a Tesla the other day with a Zero Emissions license plate on the front. No ...more

Tell him hey nice coal fired car.....they dont like that.

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12/1/2020 6:26 AM

The Law of Thermodynamics
"Energy can not be created or destroyed". The amount of energy expended to create a zero emission should be factored in. But that would require some common sense of which the governments around the world are short of.

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12/1/2020 6:27 AM

I have seen positive results adding an HHO to ICE motors. They run much cleaner, adds a bit of power, and more efficient. The engineer who built the system, an Indonesian guy, was building small systems to add to motorcycles as well. Of course this application wasn't to eliminate the ICE motor completely, and isn't for MX bikes, but it did work as intended.

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12/1/2020 6:38 AM

Gordon Liddy wrote:

There is no such thing as zero emissions. I saw a Tesla the other day with a Zero Emissions license plate on the front. No ...more

Very true. Even more so they emit in other ways. Such as brake dust! Can never escape it all!

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I'll keep my guns, freedom and money, and you can keep the "change"

12/1/2020 7:06 AM

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12/1/2020 7:36 AM

I remember a push for hydrogen cars in california like 15 years ago. Arnold was driving a hydrogen suburban around, I think more than half of the interior was used for a fuel cell.

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12/1/2020 7:56 AM

Gordon Liddy wrote:

There is no such thing as zero emissions. I saw a Tesla the other day with a Zero Emissions license plate on the front. No ...more

While youre technically correct, the zero emissions means from the car itself. Before you had power plant emissions and fuel emissions. Because you eliminate the fuel emissions from the car that is what makes it zero. The powerplants are running no matter what. That being said its impossible to convert energy without hazardous waste or emissions anyway. we can reduce emissions into the atmosphere but we will then have hazardous waste problems later on with piles of batteries and nuclear waste. Hopefully theres a way to recycle it or shoot it off into space.

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12/1/2020 8:08 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/1/2020 8:10 AM

Electric motors and batteries have more benefits than just tailpipe emissions. Reduced sound, reduced part counts, control over power delivery, flexibility of packaging are all attractive aspects when it comes to designing and building a bike or car. In addition there are lots and lots of other applications for advanced battery technology.

There are some low pressure hydrogen matrix technologies that could be game changers, but nothing on a proof of concept scale.

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12/1/2020 9:31 AM

early wrote:

Electric motors and batteries have more benefits than just tailpipe emissions. Reduced sound, reduced part counts, control ...more

You ever see someone try and fix a crashed Tesla? Your reduced parts count theory will go right out the window....

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

12/1/2020 9:36 AM

BobPA wrote:

You ever see someone try and fix a crashed Tesla? Your reduced parts count theory will go right out the window....

You think any manufacturer cares how hard it is to fix a wrecked vehicle?

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12/1/2020 9:40 AM

early wrote:

Electric motors and batteries have more benefits than just tailpipe emissions. Reduced sound, reduced part counts, control ...more

BobPA wrote:

You ever see someone try and fix a crashed Tesla? Your reduced parts count theory will go right out the window....

That has everything to do with Tesla still maturing as a manufacturer of luxury cars, moreso than electric technology itself, though.

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12/1/2020 10:13 AM

I'm employed in the hydrogen industry regarding testing and certification of all related components for transportation applications. The company I work for has tested complete hydrogen fuel cell systems for 3 Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. The systems were integrated into a small scooter design and were not prototypes these things were production units. The technology is solid but the infrastructure (north America) is a ways behind. In the past 15 years there has been a dribbling of money spent for promotion and infrastructure which has been wasted by bureaucrats and moronic engineering which hasn't done the industry any justice. Currently the company I work for does almost no work for any north American companies and is mostly testing for the Korean ,Japanese and continental European markets.

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12/1/2020 10:16 AM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Question: why do we care? Do dirtbikes contribute to even a fraction of a percent of the worlds emissions?

Well, China and India alone contribute 95% of the world’s ocean waste. Hasn’t stopped the snobby EU do gooders from shitting on the USA about it.

Just saying, actual pollution stats don’t matter to those psychos. Perception is everything to them.

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12/1/2020 10:41 AM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Question: why do we care? Do dirtbikes contribute to even a fraction of a percent of the worlds emissions?

Gruesome Newsom has already enacted a ban on internal combustion engines beginning in 2035 (off-road engines too).
If the entire state of California produced no carbon emissions, it would decrease global emissions by 1 percent. But we're going to spend billions to get there, in the hopes that others follow, I guess.

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12/1/2020 11:17 AM

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12/1/2020 11:25 AM

FWIW, the hydrogen cells most are referring to in this thread (not the op) are still to power electric vehicles. They are just a different storage methodology than batteries.

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12/1/2020 11:56 AM

godog wrote:

I'm employed in the hydrogen industry regarding testing and certification of all related components for transportation ...more

Where are these production units for sale? Sounds interesting.

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12/1/2020 12:09 PM

Most of the units aren't currently for sale they were planned for the 2022 model year. Many of them were to be unveiled and used at the 2020 Olympics in Japan.

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12/1/2020 12:51 PM

early wrote:

Electric motors and batteries have more benefits than just tailpipe emissions. Reduced sound, reduced part counts, control ...more

BobPA wrote:

You ever see someone try and fix a crashed Tesla? Your reduced parts count theory will go right out the window....

early wrote:

You think any manufacturer cares how hard it is to fix a wrecked vehicle?

Sorry, that was not really my point. I was more referring to the complicated mess that electric vehicle powertrains consist of. It ain't just and electric motor and a battery running the vehicle. I am just pointing out that a "reduced parts count' is just a pipe dream for todays vehicles.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....