"Zero Emissions" MX Bikes

CSAR FE
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641
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Location
Tucson, AZ US
Edited Date/Time 10/30/2021 5:51pm
I just listened to Ping's discussion about this issue on the Vital YouTube page. I share a lot of the same feelings that he mentioned on the issue. I am interested to hear the thoughts of you all on the seemingly inevitable move to all electric (or some sort of hybrid) dirt bikes in the future. For me, this is a deeper issue than the type of energy we use to go kinetic.

I am 32 years old. My fascination with the internal combustion engine (ICE), especially with regard to dirtbikes, has been a lifelong thing. My obsession with dirt bikes in general has been life long. I love everything about two strokes; how they sound, how they make power, how they "feel", and of course, the smell. I also feel the same about the four stroke, even though I was resistant to them during the four stroke revolution in my youth. I love the development, research, testing and tuning aspect of the ICE as well.

I feel that we will lose a huge piece of what is so fun about riding, if and when we go all electric. I'm sure there will be a handful of pros to it, like being able to ride in more areas without noise complants. But what will happen to off-road racing? Will the requirement to run the Baja 1000 be a trailer full of expensive batteries and double the pits? Can a single battery last at race pace for a full outdoors moto?

The day we can't buy a two or four stroke and the manufacturers no longer support ICE based bikes very well could be the day I hang up my boots, which is a depressing thought.
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10/22/2021 2:04pm
There are four year olds out there riding stacyc bikes, which will move on to an E5, then the next e-bike and will never ride an ICE bike. They will never miss it.

THEY are the target demographic, it’s not about you or I anymore.
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crowe660
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10/22/2021 2:25pm
I rode an Alta, and it was just as much fun, if not more, as riding my four stroke. Stop being a drama queen. Nobody is going to quit anything.
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CSAR FE
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641
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Tucson, AZ US
10/22/2021 2:31pm
crowe660 wrote:
I rode an Alta, and it was just as much fun, if not more, as riding my four stroke. Stop being a drama queen. Nobody is...
I rode an Alta, and it was just as much fun, if not more, as riding my four stroke. Stop being a drama queen. Nobody is going to quit anything.
I've admittedly never ridden an Alta, though I would be interested to see what its like. As I understand it, it was close to a 250F in power. Would you say that was the case in your experience?

I wouldn't really call it being a drama queen, just a point of view. Thanks for your input.
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3

The Shop

crowe660
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10/22/2021 2:42pm
crowe660 wrote:
I rode an Alta, and it was just as much fun, if not more, as riding my four stroke. Stop being a drama queen. Nobody is...
I rode an Alta, and it was just as much fun, if not more, as riding my four stroke. Stop being a drama queen. Nobody is going to quit anything.
CSAR FE wrote:
I've admittedly never ridden an Alta, though I would be interested to see what its like. As I understand it, it was close to a 250F...
I've admittedly never ridden an Alta, though I would be interested to see what its like. As I understand it, it was close to a 250F in power. Would you say that was the case in your experience?

I wouldn't really call it being a drama queen, just a point of view. Thanks for your input.
I had a 350 at the time I rode the Alta. It (MXR model?)didn’t seem far off that. I was hitting everything I would on my KTM within a half a lap. I was comfortable almost instantly. Pretty unreal thinking back. I’ve never jumped on a bike and just started laying over in ruts and greasing jumps like that. I’m excited to see what the big companies deliver when that time comes. I promise you’ll get every feeling you do riding a 4 stroke. As soon as they’re announced, I’m selling my 450, buying 125/150 and an E bike..
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Moto Nomad
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10/22/2021 2:47pm
Zero emission doesn’t have to be electric. There is hydrogen technology and potentially others. I don’t know how viable they are.
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2
Magoofan
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Shadow Glen (for those who remember), CA US
10/22/2021 2:57pm
Race gas wafting thru the stadium/pits, exhaust, the noise of the motors.... It's going to be real hard to hold interest for me.

Long live the Braaap.

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6
10/22/2021 3:02pm
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc. So i feel like i can objectively comment on this.

I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced? If it has ample power, who gives a shit? Fun to me is going fast around a track, consistently, improving my lap times and skill level. In the past 3 years, my riding skill level has increased dramatically just because of my Altas.

I'll be the first person to say Electric is not ready for every type of riding possible out there. Baja 1000? Cmon dude, would you bring a stock dirtbike with a 1.5gal tank to the Baja1000? Obviously you'd need a massive battery to be able to do that on electric, just like those baja 1000 bikes have super large fuel tanks.

For your weekend warrior motocrosser, the Alta MXR is absolutely sufficient for most riders. Most weekend warriors can only do 10 minute sessions anyway. Guys like me can go 20+ mins pushing hard but i wouldn't say that's common. The Alta already has the range to last that long.

For your trail rider, the Alta EXR is more than capable. I've done multiple 90+ minute rides in tight single track trail riding on a single full charge. Range is just one thing, though. How about performance? Its way easier to ride in tight, technical stuff than any other dirtbike, hands down, no questions. Want to wheelie over something? Easy. No clutch and no gears to deal with. Just whick the throttle. Need to crawl up a rocky hill? No problem, the power is super manageable with just your right wrist, and provides more traction than even a 4 stroke. Not to mention, you've got 4 different power maps stock (and lets just say more are possible). Dont forget the bike is ultra quiet and doesn't vibrate! If you were to close your eyes and imagine the best offroading experience, you'd imagine yourself on an Alta EXR in tight, technical terrain having a fricken blast.

That said, the current Alta MXR with 50% more range would be the absolute ideal motocross and offload bike IMO. Also one with the ability to quick swap batteries instead of having to wait an hour for the bike to recharge. It hasn't really been a big deal for me because i usually bring 2 bikes to the track all the time, but its worth mentioning.

There are so many advantages to electric: Wayyyyyyy less maintenance,, wayyyyy longer motor life, a power curve that no gas engine can match, a power curve that can easily be configured to mimic ANY current motocross engine, power that is ALWAYS consistent no matter the temperature/elevation/ "age of the engine", did i mention i never have to waste time making a mess cleaning air filters or changing oil? And i'm saying this as a person who enjoys wrenching on mechanical things. Its absolute LUXURY not having to worry about that stuff on a dirtbike.

My Altas are hands down my go-to bikes to chose when going motocross riding. Any other bike is just a chore at this point. Sure, i have to lug a generator + charger to the track, but i'd much rather have to do that than clean an air filter after every ride, or change transmission oil after 5 hours, or engine oil after 8-10 hours.
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mattyhamz2
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10/22/2021 3:37pm
One thing we all really need to understand is that going electric WILL NOT open more areas for us to ride. Maybe temporarily, but the noise complaint will move to dust. Then after dust it will move to us “destroying the earth.” There will always be something else for them to go after until we can no longer ride. I don’t understand why this is so hard for us to understand.

As riders, we are not liked! We are actually hated for the most part.
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9
mattyhamz2
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10/22/2021 3:45pm
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc...
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc. So i feel like i can objectively comment on this.

I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced? If it has ample power, who gives a shit? Fun to me is going fast around a track, consistently, improving my lap times and skill level. In the past 3 years, my riding skill level has increased dramatically just because of my Altas.

I'll be the first person to say Electric is not ready for every type of riding possible out there. Baja 1000? Cmon dude, would you bring a stock dirtbike with a 1.5gal tank to the Baja1000? Obviously you'd need a massive battery to be able to do that on electric, just like those baja 1000 bikes have super large fuel tanks.

For your weekend warrior motocrosser, the Alta MXR is absolutely sufficient for most riders. Most weekend warriors can only do 10 minute sessions anyway. Guys like me can go 20+ mins pushing hard but i wouldn't say that's common. The Alta already has the range to last that long.

For your trail rider, the Alta EXR is more than capable. I've done multiple 90+ minute rides in tight single track trail riding on a single full charge. Range is just one thing, though. How about performance? Its way easier to ride in tight, technical stuff than any other dirtbike, hands down, no questions. Want to wheelie over something? Easy. No clutch and no gears to deal with. Just whick the throttle. Need to crawl up a rocky hill? No problem, the power is super manageable with just your right wrist, and provides more traction than even a 4 stroke. Not to mention, you've got 4 different power maps stock (and lets just say more are possible). Dont forget the bike is ultra quiet and doesn't vibrate! If you were to close your eyes and imagine the best offroading experience, you'd imagine yourself on an Alta EXR in tight, technical terrain having a fricken blast.

That said, the current Alta MXR with 50% more range would be the absolute ideal motocross and offload bike IMO. Also one with the ability to quick swap batteries instead of having to wait an hour for the bike to recharge. It hasn't really been a big deal for me because i usually bring 2 bikes to the track all the time, but its worth mentioning.

There are so many advantages to electric: Wayyyyyyy less maintenance,, wayyyyy longer motor life, a power curve that no gas engine can match, a power curve that can easily be configured to mimic ANY current motocross engine, power that is ALWAYS consistent no matter the temperature/elevation/ "age of the engine", did i mention i never have to waste time making a mess cleaning air filters or changing oil? And i'm saying this as a person who enjoys wrenching on mechanical things. Its absolute LUXURY not having to worry about that stuff on a dirtbike.

My Altas are hands down my go-to bikes to chose when going motocross riding. Any other bike is just a chore at this point. Sure, i have to lug a generator + charger to the track, but i'd much rather have to do that than clean an air filter after every ride, or change transmission oil after 5 hours, or engine oil after 8-10 hours.
Bryan, this is not me being a jerk or disrespectful so if it comes across that way I do apologize, just an honest question looking for your honest opinion.

Did your riding skill actually increase all the way across the board and on all bikes because of riding the Alta, or did you get better/faster on the Alta because you don’t have to do anything other than twist the throttle and brake? I.e no shifting/clutch
3
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CSAR FE
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641
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Tucson, AZ US
10/22/2021 3:46pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
One thing we all really need to understand is that going electric WILL NOT open more areas for us to ride. Maybe temporarily, but the noise...
One thing we all really need to understand is that going electric WILL NOT open more areas for us to ride. Maybe temporarily, but the noise complaint will move to dust. Then after dust it will move to us “destroying the earth.” There will always be something else for them to go after until we can no longer ride. I don’t understand why this is so hard for us to understand.

As riders, we are not liked! We are actually hated for the most part.
Case in point here being the treatment of E-MTBs on the trail systems.

I do think that it would create the ability to open up more tracks closer to the suburbs, without the issues surrounding it getting shut down by the community because of noise issues.
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Yeti831
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UT US
10/22/2021 3:50pm
Ask non-motorized mountain bikers how well that’s worked out for keeping their trail open.

It’s just a compliance gimmick with zero foundation on longevity because emissions is the current recreational outrage.

People who are trying to shut down trails, tracks and land will continue that fight well after these come into play. It just won’t be carbon emissions.
18
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b_kowalsk
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Thomaston, CT US
10/22/2021 3:51pm
CSAR FE wrote:
I just listened to Ping's discussion about this issue on the Vital YouTube page. I share a lot of the same feelings that he mentioned on...
I just listened to Ping's discussion about this issue on the Vital YouTube page. I share a lot of the same feelings that he mentioned on the issue. I am interested to hear the thoughts of you all on the seemingly inevitable move to all electric (or some sort of hybrid) dirt bikes in the future. For me, this is a deeper issue than the type of energy we use to go kinetic.

I am 32 years old. My fascination with the internal combustion engine (ICE), especially with regard to dirtbikes, has been a lifelong thing. My obsession with dirt bikes in general has been life long. I love everything about two strokes; how they sound, how they make power, how they "feel", and of course, the smell. I also feel the same about the four stroke, even though I was resistant to them during the four stroke revolution in my youth. I love the development, research, testing and tuning aspect of the ICE as well.

I feel that we will lose a huge piece of what is so fun about riding, if and when we go all electric. I'm sure there will be a handful of pros to it, like being able to ride in more areas without noise complants. But what will happen to off-road racing? Will the requirement to run the Baja 1000 be a trailer full of expensive batteries and double the pits? Can a single battery last at race pace for a full outdoors moto?

The day we can't buy a two or four stroke and the manufacturers no longer support ICE based bikes very well could be the day I hang up my boots, which is a depressing thought.
Just because they quit making gas powered bikes doesn't mean you have to quit riding either. Just ride your old bikes, people still ride and have fun on Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki two strokes even though they are no longer produced...
8
CSAR FE
Posts
641
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Location
Tucson, AZ US
10/22/2021 3:55pm
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc...
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc. So i feel like i can objectively comment on this.

I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced? If it has ample power, who gives a shit? Fun to me is going fast around a track, consistently, improving my lap times and skill level. In the past 3 years, my riding skill level has increased dramatically just because of my Altas.

I'll be the first person to say Electric is not ready for every type of riding possible out there. Baja 1000? Cmon dude, would you bring a stock dirtbike with a 1.5gal tank to the Baja1000? Obviously you'd need a massive battery to be able to do that on electric, just like those baja 1000 bikes have super large fuel tanks.

For your weekend warrior motocrosser, the Alta MXR is absolutely sufficient for most riders. Most weekend warriors can only do 10 minute sessions anyway. Guys like me can go 20+ mins pushing hard but i wouldn't say that's common. The Alta already has the range to last that long.

For your trail rider, the Alta EXR is more than capable. I've done multiple 90+ minute rides in tight single track trail riding on a single full charge. Range is just one thing, though. How about performance? Its way easier to ride in tight, technical stuff than any other dirtbike, hands down, no questions. Want to wheelie over something? Easy. No clutch and no gears to deal with. Just whick the throttle. Need to crawl up a rocky hill? No problem, the power is super manageable with just your right wrist, and provides more traction than even a 4 stroke. Not to mention, you've got 4 different power maps stock (and lets just say more are possible). Dont forget the bike is ultra quiet and doesn't vibrate! If you were to close your eyes and imagine the best offroading experience, you'd imagine yourself on an Alta EXR in tight, technical terrain having a fricken blast.

That said, the current Alta MXR with 50% more range would be the absolute ideal motocross and offload bike IMO. Also one with the ability to quick swap batteries instead of having to wait an hour for the bike to recharge. It hasn't really been a big deal for me because i usually bring 2 bikes to the track all the time, but its worth mentioning.

There are so many advantages to electric: Wayyyyyyy less maintenance,, wayyyyy longer motor life, a power curve that no gas engine can match, a power curve that can easily be configured to mimic ANY current motocross engine, power that is ALWAYS consistent no matter the temperature/elevation/ "age of the engine", did i mention i never have to waste time making a mess cleaning air filters or changing oil? And i'm saying this as a person who enjoys wrenching on mechanical things. Its absolute LUXURY not having to worry about that stuff on a dirtbike.

My Altas are hands down my go-to bikes to chose when going motocross riding. Any other bike is just a chore at this point. Sure, i have to lug a generator + charger to the track, but i'd much rather have to do that than clean an air filter after every ride, or change transmission oil after 5 hours, or engine oil after 8-10 hours.
These are some interesting points. I didn't consider the ease of maintenance like you did, however, I also enjoy wrenching on my bikes as well. I do think its funny that there's a push for a "zero emissions" bike, but people are lugging a gas powered generator out to charge it in the pits. Sort of defeats the purpose. I am sure as technology continues to evolve, we will see huge leaps in these bikes. I just don't see it being there yet. But 2030 (or was it 2035) is a way off, and a lot can change in that timeframe.

Perhaps my mindset is from a different era as a whole, or maybe its just me. But like another poster said, change is indeed hard. All the fun doesn't come from simply what the engine is necessarily, but for me its a part of the whole experience, and I enjoy it. To each their own!
1
5
Bret
Posts
819
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Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
10/22/2021 4:06pm
There is a finite supply of oil. We will run out one day but not likely while anybody reading this is alive. Alcohol might be a viable option for an internal combustion engine. Maybe some other plant derived combustible will be discovered. Seems like the internal combustion engine could be kept around for quite some time if some enterprising chemists were able to cook up some sort of super fuel. Whatever happens, it is really inspiring to see the different approaches being taken to solve this problem. We were lucky enough to have lived at a time that we got to experience the thrill of riding a motorcycle with a fire breathing engine underneath us. Change is inevitable.
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5
jridout12
Posts
381
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Location
IA US
10/22/2021 4:13pm
For me It would be really hard to stop riding if the industry goes to all electric. I wouldn't be a fan of it at all and it would take a lot of the fun out of it for me but I'd still ride. Probably just start hoarding gas bikes starting soon so I don't have to make the transition for a long time. Now on the other hand I could see myself giving up attending the races in person when they go to electric bikes. For me half the experience of going a supercross or outdoor race is the sound and the smell. I don't think I could ever get used to or enjoy watching 40 bikes go around the track with the only noise being chains slapping. I'd rather just stay home and watch the race on tv in the comfort of my home. The day is coming when we will be forced to make the transition and it will be a sad one for sure.
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4
10/22/2021 4:21pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
One thing we all really need to understand is that going electric WILL NOT open more areas for us to ride. Maybe temporarily, but the noise...
One thing we all really need to understand is that going electric WILL NOT open more areas for us to ride. Maybe temporarily, but the noise complaint will move to dust. Then after dust it will move to us “destroying the earth.” There will always be something else for them to go after until we can no longer ride. I don’t understand why this is so hard for us to understand.

As riders, we are not liked! We are actually hated for the most part.
i ride my yard and/or some close state-owned land virtually every day on my altas. i could do neither on my yz250f, which continues to stay parked in the garage.
2
-MAVERICK-
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Ontario CA
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10/22/2021 4:22pm
Bryan wrote:

"I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced?"

Why? Because people like different things.

McDonald's vs Wendy's
Coke vs Pepsi
MTN Bike vs E MTN Bikes

How hard is it to understand people like different things. Not everyone is on the electric bandwagon. BFD!

Some people actually like changing gears and working on their bikes.
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2
yota
Posts
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Location
Crystal River, FL US
10/22/2021 4:28pm
the opposition to riding off road is deeply rooted and implacable. it is unrelenting. they don't care if you are quiet. the opposition's resistance will turn to dust and erosion. don't expect it to go away because your machine is quiet.
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KONG
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FR
10/22/2021 5:07pm
RyanD797 wrote:
Change is hard.
Especially when it's a stupid change.
Tongue
9
4
Bruce372
Posts
6341
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Location
US
10/22/2021 6:04pm
Bret wrote:
There is a finite supply of oil. We will run out one day but not likely while anybody reading this is alive. Alcohol might be a...
There is a finite supply of oil. We will run out one day but not likely while anybody reading this is alive. Alcohol might be a viable option for an internal combustion engine. Maybe some other plant derived combustible will be discovered. Seems like the internal combustion engine could be kept around for quite some time if some enterprising chemists were able to cook up some sort of super fuel. Whatever happens, it is really inspiring to see the different approaches being taken to solve this problem. We were lucky enough to have lived at a time that we got to experience the thrill of riding a motorcycle with a fire breathing engine underneath us. Change is inevitable.
It's not about the fuel resrouce, it's about the product of combustion, CO2.

Years ago on Tomorrow's world TV show in UK, they showed an engine running on finely powdered and dried algae. They routed the exhaust back to help grow more algae.

Ethanol also produces CO2, but its a renewable fuel... however, it takes a lot of energy to process, and also growing corn takes a lot of precious water.

So many things to consider....
1
10/22/2021 6:34pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Bryan, this is not me being a jerk or disrespectful so if it comes across that way I do apologize, just an honest question looking for...
Bryan, this is not me being a jerk or disrespectful so if it comes across that way I do apologize, just an honest question looking for your honest opinion.

Did your riding skill actually increase all the way across the board and on all bikes because of riding the Alta, or did you get better/faster on the Alta because you don’t have to do anything other than twist the throttle and brake? I.e no shifting/clutch
No offense taken bud. Its a good question, and i get asked it a lot.

The Alta has progressed my technique on all bikes across the board. Not having to clutch and shift is a huge advantage. Instead of having to spend a tiny bit of focus on shifting and clutch work, I spend more of my focus on line choice, technique, etc. Not only that, but I'm able to stand up more often on the Alta vs any gas bike because shifting under acceleration usually has to be done sitting down... dont have to do that on the Alta. Its quite an amazing experience, honestly. Any fun you may think is lost is easily overcome by being able to ride faster easier, and to me going fast is having fun. It's the smoothest power delivery you'll ever feel on a dirtbike and its power that isn't restricted to hitting a rev limiter in a particular gear. Because of that and because of the massive torque the electric motor makes, the gas gyro effect in the air that raises the front wheel is much more than a gas bike. This means its easy to get yourself out of hairy, endo-ish situations when you hit a knuckle on a jump face or something like that.

That all being said, i can easily jump between my Alta and my KX125 absolutely fine. Its not like you forget how to shift and use the clutch after riding an electric bike. The Alta makes having to shift and using the clutch feel like an extra chore while riding. The instant response of the electric motor spoils you real quick. Kinda like the introduction of 4 strokes spoiled riders because of the added torque down low. Its a similar jump in feeling moving over to the Alta from a 4-stroke.

You gotta try it.
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4
endurox
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Garden City, ID US
10/22/2021 6:45pm
So if one takes into account the team semi's traveling the country, airplane flights for the riders and rubber for the tires, a zero emissions is ridiculous.
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2
10/22/2021 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2021 7:08pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Bryan wrote: [i]"I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered...
Bryan wrote:

"I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced?"

Why? Because people like different things.

McDonald's vs Wendy's
Coke vs Pepsi
MTN Bike vs E MTN Bikes

How hard is it to understand people like different things. Not everyone is on the electric bandwagon. BFD!

Some people actually like changing gears and working on their bikes.
i guess my definition of fun is different than some people, then. I can have fun on any type of bike. That sucks if you only enjoy motocross riding YOUR bike. The point is, riding is still fun (i'd argue more fun) with an electric motor.

Literally EVERY person i've let ride one of my Alta's has come back from that ride with a huge smile on their face, and cant help themselves but say how good the bike is.

Including guys like Jeff Walker (this was my EXR):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqibD_d9NA
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10
bama205
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Location
Williamson County, TN US
10/22/2021 7:15pm
I LOVE my sons e5. He’s faster and more comfy on it. Plug and play.

Having said that the argument that we must change because we will run out of oil isn’t a good argument. Lithium must be mined too. We will run out of lithium too.

7
langhammx
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Santa Clarita, CA US
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10/22/2021 7:18pm
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc...
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc. So i feel like i can objectively comment on this.

I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced? If it has ample power, who gives a shit? Fun to me is going fast around a track, consistently, improving my lap times and skill level. In the past 3 years, my riding skill level has increased dramatically just because of my Altas.

I'll be the first person to say Electric is not ready for every type of riding possible out there. Baja 1000? Cmon dude, would you bring a stock dirtbike with a 1.5gal tank to the Baja1000? Obviously you'd need a massive battery to be able to do that on electric, just like those baja 1000 bikes have super large fuel tanks.

For your weekend warrior motocrosser, the Alta MXR is absolutely sufficient for most riders. Most weekend warriors can only do 10 minute sessions anyway. Guys like me can go 20+ mins pushing hard but i wouldn't say that's common. The Alta already has the range to last that long.

For your trail rider, the Alta EXR is more than capable. I've done multiple 90+ minute rides in tight single track trail riding on a single full charge. Range is just one thing, though. How about performance? Its way easier to ride in tight, technical stuff than any other dirtbike, hands down, no questions. Want to wheelie over something? Easy. No clutch and no gears to deal with. Just whick the throttle. Need to crawl up a rocky hill? No problem, the power is super manageable with just your right wrist, and provides more traction than even a 4 stroke. Not to mention, you've got 4 different power maps stock (and lets just say more are possible). Dont forget the bike is ultra quiet and doesn't vibrate! If you were to close your eyes and imagine the best offroading experience, you'd imagine yourself on an Alta EXR in tight, technical terrain having a fricken blast.

That said, the current Alta MXR with 50% more range would be the absolute ideal motocross and offload bike IMO. Also one with the ability to quick swap batteries instead of having to wait an hour for the bike to recharge. It hasn't really been a big deal for me because i usually bring 2 bikes to the track all the time, but its worth mentioning.

There are so many advantages to electric: Wayyyyyyy less maintenance,, wayyyyy longer motor life, a power curve that no gas engine can match, a power curve that can easily be configured to mimic ANY current motocross engine, power that is ALWAYS consistent no matter the temperature/elevation/ "age of the engine", did i mention i never have to waste time making a mess cleaning air filters or changing oil? And i'm saying this as a person who enjoys wrenching on mechanical things. Its absolute LUXURY not having to worry about that stuff on a dirtbike.

My Altas are hands down my go-to bikes to chose when going motocross riding. Any other bike is just a chore at this point. Sure, i have to lug a generator + charger to the track, but i'd much rather have to do that than clean an air filter after every ride, or change transmission oil after 5 hours, or engine oil after 8-10 hours.
Bryan,
When the guys with Altas show up at our tracks and have to plug in their bikes to charge it back up, they run their loud ass / gas burning generators, which are annoying AF. This is the biggest downside of riding an Alta at the track.

But… I will admit that when I rode my buddies, I was immediately comfortable on it and jumped every jump on the track on my first lap. I was very surprised at how easy it was to get comfortable on. The power it had in the race mode was much better than I could have imagined.

With that said, I will own an electric bike eventually, but I’ll never get rid of my other bikes. I ride a lot of off-road / single track and our rides consist of 60-80 mile loops. I’d sure hate to run out of battery power in some of the places we ride !
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10/22/2021 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2021 7:31pm
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc...
I have experience riding all type of bikes. I've owned 2 different Alta's (MXR and EXR), 125s, 250s, 450s, ridden many 250fs, 350s, a 500cc, etc. So i feel like i can objectively comment on this.

I really question people who claim that the "fun" in riding is due to the engine in the bike. Really? Sure, power is delivered differently between a 125, 250f, 250, 450F, etc..... but why do people care so much how the power is produced? If it has ample power, who gives a shit? Fun to me is going fast around a track, consistently, improving my lap times and skill level. In the past 3 years, my riding skill level has increased dramatically just because of my Altas.

I'll be the first person to say Electric is not ready for every type of riding possible out there. Baja 1000? Cmon dude, would you bring a stock dirtbike with a 1.5gal tank to the Baja1000? Obviously you'd need a massive battery to be able to do that on electric, just like those baja 1000 bikes have super large fuel tanks.

For your weekend warrior motocrosser, the Alta MXR is absolutely sufficient for most riders. Most weekend warriors can only do 10 minute sessions anyway. Guys like me can go 20+ mins pushing hard but i wouldn't say that's common. The Alta already has the range to last that long.

For your trail rider, the Alta EXR is more than capable. I've done multiple 90+ minute rides in tight single track trail riding on a single full charge. Range is just one thing, though. How about performance? Its way easier to ride in tight, technical stuff than any other dirtbike, hands down, no questions. Want to wheelie over something? Easy. No clutch and no gears to deal with. Just whick the throttle. Need to crawl up a rocky hill? No problem, the power is super manageable with just your right wrist, and provides more traction than even a 4 stroke. Not to mention, you've got 4 different power maps stock (and lets just say more are possible). Dont forget the bike is ultra quiet and doesn't vibrate! If you were to close your eyes and imagine the best offroading experience, you'd imagine yourself on an Alta EXR in tight, technical terrain having a fricken blast.

That said, the current Alta MXR with 50% more range would be the absolute ideal motocross and offload bike IMO. Also one with the ability to quick swap batteries instead of having to wait an hour for the bike to recharge. It hasn't really been a big deal for me because i usually bring 2 bikes to the track all the time, but its worth mentioning.

There are so many advantages to electric: Wayyyyyyy less maintenance,, wayyyyy longer motor life, a power curve that no gas engine can match, a power curve that can easily be configured to mimic ANY current motocross engine, power that is ALWAYS consistent no matter the temperature/elevation/ "age of the engine", did i mention i never have to waste time making a mess cleaning air filters or changing oil? And i'm saying this as a person who enjoys wrenching on mechanical things. Its absolute LUXURY not having to worry about that stuff on a dirtbike.

My Altas are hands down my go-to bikes to chose when going motocross riding. Any other bike is just a chore at this point. Sure, i have to lug a generator + charger to the track, but i'd much rather have to do that than clean an air filter after every ride, or change transmission oil after 5 hours, or engine oil after 8-10 hours.
langhammx wrote:
Bryan, When the guys with Altas show up at our tracks and have to plug in their bikes to charge it back up, they run their...
Bryan,
When the guys with Altas show up at our tracks and have to plug in their bikes to charge it back up, they run their loud ass / gas burning generators, which are annoying AF. This is the biggest downside of riding an Alta at the track.

But… I will admit that when I rode my buddies, I was immediately comfortable on it and jumped every jump on the track on my first lap. I was very surprised at how easy it was to get comfortable on. The power it had in the race mode was much better than I could have imagined.

With that said, I will own an electric bike eventually, but I’ll never get rid of my other bikes. I ride a lot of off-road / single track and our rides consist of 60-80 mile loops. I’d sure hate to run out of battery power in some of the places we ride !
Yeah the loud generator in the pits is definitely a negative. I usually stick mine on the other side of the truck to use as a sound barrrier.

I suspect once electric dirtbikes become more mainstram, local tracks will have 240V RV hookups so no generators would be needed. Hell, i would gladly pay 5-10$ extra on top of the gate fee if i was able to just plug in to electricity on the property.
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9
-MAVERICK-
Posts
50599
Joined
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Location
Ontario CA
Fantasy
3739th
10/22/2021 7:54pm
i guess my definition of fun is different than some people, then. I can have fun on any type of bike. That sucks if you only...
i guess my definition of fun is different than some people, then. I can have fun on any type of bike. That sucks if you only enjoy motocross riding YOUR bike. The point is, riding is still fun (i'd argue more fun) with an electric motor.

Literally EVERY person i've let ride one of my Alta's has come back from that ride with a huge smile on their face, and cant help themselves but say how good the bike is.

Including guys like Jeff Walker (this was my EXR):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqibD_d9NA
Again, people like to have fun different ways. Some like fly fishing, and others like fishing from a boat.

Both are still having fun fishing. Two different ways, same passion for the hobby.
5
sumdood
Posts
5574
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Location
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10/22/2021 11:21pm
Hey Bryan what’s up hope you don’t take this wrong way. One of the otmx races at Cahuilla you were at I was pitted “on the other side of your truck/sound barrier” I was over your generator pretty early on and we joked about how quiet these electric bikes are. 😂. It was weird as fuck when you passed me in practice, I had no idea you were there, (if I cut you off sorry haha), it’s weird not hearing anything except your chain. I’m not against electric bikes at all, they seem fun and easy to ride. My biggest issue with them and maybe it’s just me being old and not liking to be told what I can and can’t do, is the fact that they’re going to be stuffed down our throats because of people who complain. In my mind people who are a bunch of pussy ass whiny bitches. “Oh we don’t like hearing noise” Fucking waaah stfu with that shit. A few people complain about some noise and all of a sudden their wants are more important than mine. The powers that be are now more concerned with their happiness than mine, and I have to stop doing what I like because I’m “Bothering” them, and how big a deal is motorcycle noise off in the distance anyway ? Hear me out (nyuk nyuk..) We hardly live in a quiet world, there’s freeways and airplanes and where I live in San Clemente it seems like I hear sirens all day and night, helicopters and planes all night, not to mention the bombs going off on Camp Pendleton. It’s noisy as hell around here. But if one of those noises is a motorcycle in the hills oh shit call the cops. Having grown up riding in the hills in every town I’ve lived in and it never being an issue until recent years makes me fucking hate those whining cocksucker complaining bitches even more. What bothers me about them is being told “This is what you’re going to have to ride come such and such a time”. And why is that ? Because at some point in time people started complaining and the powers that be feel if a few people complain then their job is to make them happy. How come no one ever gets told “yeah the kids are playing the hills, don’t like the noise shut the window or move” I’m tired of all the new rules and regulations we keep getting bombarded with because Mrs Crabapple was upset when her zen was interrupted while she was farting around in the garden. What happened to Live and let live ? How many tracks that we lost around here ? I’m so tired of people saying oh we lost that track because of the noise, bullshit we lost the track because some bitter miserable prick complained about the noise. They probably complain about shit all day. Anyway sorry for the long rant, I have absolutely no problem with electric motorcycles, cars, dirt bikes, electric whatever. My problem is they want to stuff them down our throats and tell us that’s are only option, and why ? Because some old bitty or yuppie hippy granola eater doesn’t like them. Well too fucking bad there’s lots of things I don’t like. I don’t like bums and tweakers doing drugs in the bushes and shitting in the streets in this town, I don’t like the fact that people can steal up to $1000 worth of shit and the cops don’t even fucking care, and never mind the Weedwhacker’s that you hear everywhere in every neighborhood every day, never mind those fucking guys let’s go after the dirt bikes. And (IMO) it has nothing to do with air pollution. If they were really worried about air pollution we’d have 40mpg mini trucks available. Give me a break my 85’ Toyota truck got just as good of mileage as a 2021. That’s how much technology had been thrown at energy efficient trucks. I’m sure people will look at me like grandpa Simpson being angry and yelling at the clouds, and that’s fine. But for all those reasons I think I must subconsciously (and unfairly) correlate electric dirt bikes with a loss of freedom. It’s the only real reason I can come up with as to why they just bug me Laughing
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