You wanted a 'chase format'...we got it

reynardfan1
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reynardfan1
Edited Date/Time 4/13/2017 8:14pm
I guess we get to see a small glimpse of a chase format in the coming weeks but only between two guys...

The only thing I think a chase would do is cause a lot of dnf's all year long...I ain't winning so I'm out, see you when the chase starts...
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Stuntman949
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Stuntman949 4/12/2017 4:04pm
4/12/2017 4:04pm
Have to get in this supposed chase somehow. Cant just start your series at the 10th round. Certainly made things more exciting for Arenacross this year.
RD757
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RD757 4/12/2017 4:10pm
4/12/2017 4:10pm
The only difference is Tomac deserves to be tied with dungey at this point in the season
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DPR250R 4/12/2017 4:15pm
4/12/2017 4:15pm
Its the 100 year storm. See you in 2117 for the next time a series is good down the stretch.

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2smokertillend 4/12/2017 5:09pm
4/12/2017 5:09pm
Say we had a chase format, what would the standings be like. Because Tomac and Dungey should be tied.
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Sweendoggy 4/12/2017 5:24pm
4/12/2017 5:24pm
With a chase format, Tomac would be killing Dungey right now as the chase would have erased his deficit before last weekend most likely...
jeffro503
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jeffro503 4/12/2017 6:51pm
4/12/2017 6:51pm
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen.

What is the point of even running the first half of the season? Even if it were a " Top 10 in the chase " ....being a top rider , you could just fuck around and not have to worry about anything until the 1/2 way point? Stupid.
Fat Fingers
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Fat Fingers 4/12/2017 7:08pm
4/12/2017 7:08pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen. What is the point of even running the first half...
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen.

What is the point of even running the first half of the season? Even if it were a " Top 10 in the chase " ....being a top rider , you could just fuck around and not have to worry about anything until the 1/2 way point? Stupid.
and that's exactly what a lot of riders would do.. why risk pulling out big moves when the points are going to be reset. Riders could even mess around with their training so they only peak for the last few rounds making the first 8 or 10 rounds a farce. Stupid.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 4/12/2017 7:20pm
4/12/2017 7:20pm
RD757 wrote:
The only difference is Tomac deserves to be tied with dungey at this point in the season
No way they could be tied at this point in the year........
TheNewOriginal 4/12/2017 7:20pm
4/12/2017 7:20pm
Sweendoggy wrote:
With a chase format, Tomac would be killing Dungey right now as the chase would have erased his deficit before last weekend most likely...
Eli gained 4 points this weekend. So, 4 points is killing...?????
GuyB
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GuyB 4/12/2017 7:47pm
4/12/2017 7:47pm
What we have is a three-race sprint for the championship.
cable
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cable 4/12/2017 7:56pm
4/12/2017 7:56pm
who has the most friends on the track?
Heavyrider
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Heavyrider 4/12/2017 7:57pm
4/12/2017 7:57pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen. What is the point of even running the first half...
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen.

What is the point of even running the first half of the season? Even if it were a " Top 10 in the chase " ....being a top rider , you could just fuck around and not have to worry about anything until the 1/2 way point? Stupid.
Spot on Jeffro
early
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early 4/12/2017 7:59pm
4/12/2017 7:59pm
In a way this season actually provides an argument for a chase.

We are seeing what an exciting, close end of season can look like.

Right now only 2 riders are participating in the Championship, the rest are just playing spoilers (Reed, Musquin)

If there were more riders involved in the championship at this point team tactics would not be as beneficial/detrimental.
mx617
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mx617 4/12/2017 8:06pm
4/12/2017 8:06pm
This has absolutely zero resemblance to a chase. This is two riders duking it out to the best of their abilities. It's real, not some artificially scripted creation.

Like hockey, they say the breakaway is the most exciting part. And it is. But when they say the "shootout will be exciting because it's a bunch of breakaways" It's dead wrong. Because it's an artificial multiple of a very rare event.
kzizok
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kzizok 4/12/2017 8:48pm
4/12/2017 8:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2017 8:50pm
Who was it that said they wanted a chase format?

A chase format is just a shortened season with exhibitions thrown in at the beginning.
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Huevos 4/13/2017 7:41am
4/13/2017 7:41am
This is not a resemblance of a chase format. This is a reminder that a championship series can be worthwhile for the whole 17 rounds like in 2011, 2009, 2006, 2004, etc. Tomac and Dungey are both tied right now due to their performances over the past 14 rounds... they have both earned all year long to be in the position they're in. A chase format would completely cheapen it.
cmarona463
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cmarona463 4/13/2017 8:04am
4/13/2017 8:04am
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't have to be "all riders are reset to even points after X events". There are so many variations that can be made to it that actually keep the races relevant that lead up to the chase. Bonus points for main event wins, heat race wins, top qualifier. These bonus points are then awarded starting in the first round of the chase. That awards the riders that have consistently been at the top of the field all year long. I'm not saying it is a necessity for our sport, but saying that it cheapens things or that it penalizes riders for being good early, are weak arguments.

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BroFoSho
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BroFoSho 4/13/2017 8:13am
4/13/2017 8:13am
Huevos wrote:
This is not a resemblance of a chase format. This is a reminder that a championship series can be worthwhile for the whole 17 rounds like...
This is not a resemblance of a chase format. This is a reminder that a championship series can be worthwhile for the whole 17 rounds like in 2011, 2009, 2006, 2004, etc. Tomac and Dungey are both tied right now due to their performances over the past 14 rounds... they have both earned all year long to be in the position they're in. A chase format would completely cheapen it.
So in the past 13 years, SX has had five exciting finishes.

All the more reason for a chase format
PRM31
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PRM31 4/13/2017 8:20am
4/13/2017 8:20am
I have an idea for a chase; how about everybody get reset to zero at the start of the season and each race counts equal and the guy with the most points wins?

In an event with as much risk as SX, a chase, or anything that makes some events more important than others, is stupid. If riders could get into the chase by missing a race they will. All the bonuses that reward a season long performance remove the reason for having a chase. You either have the entire season count or you make the end count. You can't have both. Anything that closes the points up towards the end puts greater weight on the end and less on the earlier events.
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jeffro503 4/13/2017 8:37am
4/13/2017 8:37am
cmarona463 wrote:
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't...
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't have to be "all riders are reset to even points after X events". There are so many variations that can be made to it that actually keep the races relevant that lead up to the chase. Bonus points for main event wins, heat race wins, top qualifier. These bonus points are then awarded starting in the first round of the chase. That awards the riders that have consistently been at the top of the field all year long. I'm not saying it is a necessity for our sport, but saying that it cheapens things or that it penalizes riders for being good early, are weak arguments.
OK , fair enough. Can you give us an example? I'm all for getting an extra point for a Heat win , or maybe even a holeshot or something like that. But resetting the points to zero is just dumb.

If a chase was introduced and the points reset at the 1/2 way mark , Eli would have a huge points lead over Ryan. But the way it is....we have a tie...and it's been done the old fashion way. Racing! The strongest and fastest riders prevail at the end of a 17 round series. They don't need some gimmick points chase to help the slower riders and hurt the faster ones....which is exactly what would happen.
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 4/13/2017 8:50am
4/13/2017 8:50am
cmarona463 wrote:
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't...
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't have to be "all riders are reset to even points after X events". There are so many variations that can be made to it that actually keep the races relevant that lead up to the chase. Bonus points for main event wins, heat race wins, top qualifier. These bonus points are then awarded starting in the first round of the chase. That awards the riders that have consistently been at the top of the field all year long. I'm not saying it is a necessity for our sport, but saying that it cheapens things or that it penalizes riders for being good early, are weak arguments.
jeffro503 wrote:
OK , fair enough. Can you give us an example? I'm all for getting an extra point for a Heat win , or maybe even a...
OK , fair enough. Can you give us an example? I'm all for getting an extra point for a Heat win , or maybe even a holeshot or something like that. But resetting the points to zero is just dumb.

If a chase was introduced and the points reset at the 1/2 way mark , Eli would have a huge points lead over Ryan. But the way it is....we have a tie...and it's been done the old fashion way. Racing! The strongest and fastest riders prevail at the end of a 17 round series. They don't need some gimmick points chase to help the slower riders and hurt the faster ones....which is exactly what would happen.
Artificially manipulating the points is weak. Our sport is better than that.
PRM31
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PRM31 4/13/2017 8:53am
4/13/2017 8:53am
I'm not closed minded, if you can show me a system that incentivizes the early rounds and sets up for a close finish, I'm all ears.
SKlein
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SKlein 4/13/2017 9:02am
4/13/2017 9:02am
jeffro503 wrote:
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen. What is the point of even running the first half...
Chase is freaking stupid for this sport. And I hope to god it never does happen.

What is the point of even running the first half of the season? Even if it were a " Top 10 in the chase " ....being a top rider , you could just fuck around and not have to worry about anything until the 1/2 way point? Stupid.
So are you discounting the importance of a 50k/100k race win bonus? This isn't me saying the change would be good/bad, but I don't think those top guys are suddenly going to stop caring about that.
steveada
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steveada 4/13/2017 9:03am
4/13/2017 9:03am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2017 9:06am
What the chase format tries to do is artificially even out the competition, which is stupid in my opinion. Why not just red flag every race halfway through, line em back up again and finish the race? It is the exact same concept. The guys that initially got the start/fought to be up front are rewarded with a red flag and a restart every time. Pretty quickly they would learn that the first start and first half of the race are meaningless and save themselves for the restart. Is that more exciting or does it just give us 10 minutes to go to the bathroom, pop some popcorn, and get a fresh beer before the real race starts? And guess what, in the long run the same guys are going to end up out front anyway so what is the point.
cmarona463
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cmarona463 4/13/2017 9:13am
4/13/2017 9:13am
cmarona463 wrote:
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't...
The only people that are totally against a "chase" are the ones that don't fully understand the possibilities of how it can be formatted. It wouldn't have to be "all riders are reset to even points after X events". There are so many variations that can be made to it that actually keep the races relevant that lead up to the chase. Bonus points for main event wins, heat race wins, top qualifier. These bonus points are then awarded starting in the first round of the chase. That awards the riders that have consistently been at the top of the field all year long. I'm not saying it is a necessity for our sport, but saying that it cheapens things or that it penalizes riders for being good early, are weak arguments.
jeffro503 wrote:
OK , fair enough. Can you give us an example? I'm all for getting an extra point for a Heat win , or maybe even a...
OK , fair enough. Can you give us an example? I'm all for getting an extra point for a Heat win , or maybe even a holeshot or something like that. But resetting the points to zero is just dumb.

If a chase was introduced and the points reset at the 1/2 way mark , Eli would have a huge points lead over Ryan. But the way it is....we have a tie...and it's been done the old fashion way. Racing! The strongest and fastest riders prevail at the end of a 17 round series. They don't need some gimmick points chase to help the slower riders and hurt the faster ones....which is exactly what would happen.
wreckitrandy wrote:
Artificially manipulating the points is weak. Our sport is better than that.
You're not artificially manipulating anything. It's creating a new system. What is the reasoning for first place in our current system paying 25 points, when second place pays 22? It's like that because at some point someone decided that's how it should be. There is literally no other reason than that.
cmarona463
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cmarona463 4/13/2017 9:16am
4/13/2017 9:16am
steveada wrote:
What the chase format tries to do is artificially even out the competition, which is stupid in my opinion. Why not just red flag every race...
What the chase format tries to do is artificially even out the competition, which is stupid in my opinion. Why not just red flag every race halfway through, line em back up again and finish the race? It is the exact same concept. The guys that initially got the start/fought to be up front are rewarded with a red flag and a restart every time. Pretty quickly they would learn that the first start and first half of the race are meaningless and save themselves for the restart. Is that more exciting or does it just give us 10 minutes to go to the bathroom, pop some popcorn, and get a fresh beer before the real race starts? And guess what, in the long run the same guys are going to end up out front anyway so what is the point.
OK, what if at that red flag the leader got 5 points? Would that still make the race before the red flag meaningless?

You're proving my point. The chase doesn't have to be "everyone resets to equal points". I agree that would be stupid.
Jeff_Crutcher 4/13/2017 10:04am
4/13/2017 10:04am
I guess you guys forgot our pro racers get paid on results. And the fact that they race to win.

Go ask AX riders how many of them are laying down because the first x amount of races don't matter. They do matter. If you don't do well, you don't make money.
Ted722
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Ted722 4/13/2017 10:05am
4/13/2017 10:05am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2017 6:15pm
I'm really trying to keep an open mind on this "chase" format and have tried to get more into Arenacross this year. I like their head to head format and multiple mains, but still not on board with the points reset. It works for stick and ball sports, because they don't play everyone every weekend. But, when you're racing everyone every weekend, the "chase/playoffs" makes no sense. Owen has almost twice the main event wins as Faith and 5 times as many as Blose. Going into the 2nd to last round, he's 9 points behind Faith and 1 point behind Blose going into Denver. Cool! Grow the Sport!

Here's a few screenshots to summarize where they are (and the points reset):



After Southhaven


After New Orleans (points reset)


After Sacramento


Firefly47
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Firefly47 4/13/2017 10:06am
4/13/2017 10:06am
RD757 wrote:
The only difference is Tomac deserves to be tied with dungey at this point in the season
Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.

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