Yamaha US , Yamaha Europe...do they ever talk ?

Xsenter
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Edited Date/Time 3/10/2012 4:36am
Just a curious thought...

The talk has gone on and on now for almost 3 seasons, James blames the new Yamaha for his bad results, Steve Mathes claims the pro's hate the new Yamaha , the bike is a turd. Etc, etc, etc...

Clearly Yamaha US must have noticed the talk. And I'm not saying it's the bike, because personally I love it. But if the real problem is the bike, then why do you never ever hear any bad talk about that bike here in the Europe pro- scen ?

Steven Frossard, David Philippaerts and Gautier Paulin have all won on the new generation bike. And currently Frossard and Philippaerts have been killing it in the 2012 Italian International mx championship ! Beating Cairoli straight up in almost every heat.

And some might say... Ahhh you just can't compare a GP bike with a AMA bike with the production rule and all this. But I tell you what, the Rinaldi factory Yamaha team build their racing suspension out of the stock shock and fork. Sure they change the internals but still cool that they make it out of the stock base components.

Anyway... let's just say that Stewart and JGR actually go for the 2012 Nationals ( I highly doubt it but let's just dream a little), wouldn't it be wise to just make a call over to Yamaha of Europe and get some advice on their setup !? I'm not saying their stuff will suit the US Nationals but wouldn't it be worth a try ?

As I said, you never hear any complaints from those Rinaldi Yamaha riders.
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Falcon
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3/8/2012 3:46pm
YMUS and Yamaha EU are two different sub-companies. You would think they share at least SOME sort of info though...

I have to think it is something other than the bike. I cannot claim to be anywhere near pro speed, but I'm pretty decent and I don't think I could ever blame any 450cc motocross bike for the gap in my results that James is experiencing. With the resources available to him through Yamaha and JGR, you'd think he could make that bike pretty darn competitive. If he was having perfect races and still not winning, then I'd be looking at the bike. His fastest lap times are usually on pace or very close to the other guys, however.
I think the thing that is wrong is the thing that made him so fast in the first place - the component between his ears.
Sherwood
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3/8/2012 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 3/8/2012 3:54pm
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX?

The AMA outdoor tracks develop different than the GP's.
englishman
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3/8/2012 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 3/8/2012 4:07pm
Osbournes bike worked well at SX this year for sure.

The Shop

RACEGUY
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3/8/2012 4:07pm
Sherwood wrote:
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX? The AMA outdoor tracks develop different...
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX?

The AMA outdoor tracks develop different than the GP's.
I, too, am always shocked at how dense some of these people are. Do we need ID checks, or IQ checks, or moderated death?

Works bikes...AMA production rules...do people really think there is THAT much difference?...in the age of 4-strokes?? Read the rules. It saves you from hurting yourself when shooting off your mouth.
Sherwood
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3/8/2012 4:14pm Edited Date/Time 3/8/2012 4:15pm
Sherwood wrote:
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX? The AMA outdoor tracks develop different...
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX?

The AMA outdoor tracks develop different than the GP's.
RACEGUY wrote:
I, too, am always shocked at how dense some of these people are. Do we need ID checks, or IQ checks, or moderated death? Works bikes...AMA...
I, too, am always shocked at how dense some of these people are. Do we need ID checks, or IQ checks, or moderated death?

Works bikes...AMA production rules...do people really think there is THAT much difference?...in the age of 4-strokes?? Read the rules. It saves you from hurting yourself when shooting off your mouth.
Ask KTM about how big of a difference there is.
RACEGUY
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3/8/2012 4:45pm
Was that your "OH YEAHHHH" moment, Sherwood? Based on that crappy image, I would be hard pressed to give you an answer. Production is simple. Frame geometry - do what you want with the steering head and rear mechanicals. Engine cases - stuff them with whatever you like as long as you don;t mess with the bore + stroke, and some limited restrictions on what you can do with the gearbox. Engine - top end - just don't mess with the bore & stroke.

It's not like the GP teams are running one-off carbon-fibre frames, ceramic brakes, and pneumatic valve actuation.

Get real...annodized billet anything is NOT what the production rule is all about. Bling, fuckin' bling. The GP teams are more likely to OD on stupid ideas than your AMA guy. There are very few restrictions on good tuners in your series, and too many superhero engineer nerds in theirs.

Don't tell me you don't remember RC finding the 4-T Suzuki impossible to ride and the R & D work that went into building a chassis to his liking. History has my back.
Sherwood
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3/8/2012 4:56pm
Cool, bring over one of those Yamaha 450's from the GPs and race it. Should be legal right?
RACEGUY
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3/8/2012 6:24pm
why are you trying to distort what I said? Why do so many of you guys embrace this idea that AMA bikes are stock? Are you stupid, brainwashed, or just too stubborn to look at what the rules actually say? If it was the elite of AMA Pro racing complaining that production standards were critically restrictive, it would be one thing. For guys who think trick billet bits are exclusive to "works" GP equipment and unavailable to AMA teams, GET A GRIP!!! Those knife-edge perfectly balanced crank-shafts inside your AMA bike cost as much as 2 complete bikes off the showroom floor. Your "production" rule gives complete latitude to the engine builder. Aside from the aluminium box that crank is bolted into, production is just a buzz-word.
RACEGUY
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3/8/2012 6:35pm
Sherwood wrote:
Electro wrote:
Those Monster Yamahas are best looking bikes I have ever seen. Love the Blue lettered ones also.
Ohhhh shit. Yeah. I forgot about the way they look. That damn "works" look is worth about a dozen horsepower.
AZ35
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3/8/2012 6:35pm
They should get a better international calling plan.

Maybe try a Verizon sponsorship package that includes free international minutes?

I understand budget cuts and all, but a fixed rate unlimited international calling plan might be a reasonable option....?Wink
FHKRacingZ
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3/8/2012 6:41pm
RACEGUY wrote:
why are you trying to distort what I said? Why do so many of you guys embrace this idea that AMA bikes are stock? Are you...
why are you trying to distort what I said? Why do so many of you guys embrace this idea that AMA bikes are stock? Are you stupid, brainwashed, or just too stubborn to look at what the rules actually say? If it was the elite of AMA Pro racing complaining that production standards were critically restrictive, it would be one thing. For guys who think trick billet bits are exclusive to "works" GP equipment and unavailable to AMA teams, GET A GRIP!!! Those knife-edge perfectly balanced crank-shafts inside your AMA bike cost as much as 2 complete bikes off the showroom floor. Your "production" rule gives complete latitude to the engine builder. Aside from the aluminium box that crank is bolted into, production is just a buzz-word.
IMO your statement is null, the thing that makes the works bikes so much different than the AMA bikes is they have the ability to change geometry and actual production chassis characteristics. AC222 was killing it on the 350f, then alessi and short get on it and both had problems on it. Coppins even talks about how touchy the chassis is to engine changes, well if you can change the production geometry of the chassis to fix its problems, im sure the bike would be just fine for the top AMA pros.
Mstock
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3/8/2012 6:44pm
What is the extent of Yamaha US in regards to MX and SX? Without a team or riders what do they do? Are they involved in the testing with the satellite teams? Do they provide parts and information to the teams? Is it hundreds of people or just a couple dudes? The GP's are on another level with full works bikes and such so maybe they don't bother with the US division.
Myke
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3/8/2012 7:27pm
Maybe it's not ridden as fast over there...............
bvm111
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3/8/2012 7:30pm
You just cannot compare Europe to US. Period! [img]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/mx473/fat_americans_RE_USA_vs_Europe-s472x300-79992.jpg[/img]
You just cannot compare Europe to US. Period!

ddddoooooohhhhh.... seriously.... I just went blind!!!!
Mstock
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3/8/2012 7:42pm
You just cannot compare Europe to US. Period! [img]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/mx473/fat_americans_RE_USA_vs_Europe-s472x300-79992.jpg[/img]
You just cannot compare Europe to US. Period!

It's impossible to argue that. There are over 60,000,000 obese people in the US and we spend over 100 billion dollars per year in medical costs treating those tank ass slugs. (link: http://www.bigfatfacts.com/). One possible solution is burn them for fuel or make carpet out them or something. Or they could hit the gym everyday and stop eating. lol
onetimepost
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3/8/2012 8:13pm
Mstock wrote:
It's impossible to argue that. There are over 60,000,000 obese people in the US and we spend over 100 billion dollars per year in medical costs...
It's impossible to argue that. There are over 60,000,000 obese people in the US and we spend over 100 billion dollars per year in medical costs treating those tank ass slugs. (link: http://www.bigfatfacts.com/). One possible solution is burn them for fuel or make carpet out them or something. Or they could hit the gym everyday and stop eating. lol
Easy fix ... it is called 23 and 1/2 hours

https://youtu.be/aUaInS6HIGo
rangot
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3/9/2012 12:26am
Nah, europeans are too dumb to understand what SX is. Just look at KTM : they'll never a 450 SX. Oh, wait...
pmcc
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3/9/2012 2:47am Edited Date/Time 3/9/2012 2:50am
RACEGUY wrote:
Was that your "OH YEAHHHH" moment, Sherwood? Based on that crappy image, I would be hard pressed to give you an answer. Production is simple. Frame...
Was that your "OH YEAHHHH" moment, Sherwood? Based on that crappy image, I would be hard pressed to give you an answer. Production is simple. Frame geometry - do what you want with the steering head and rear mechanicals. Engine cases - stuff them with whatever you like as long as you don;t mess with the bore + stroke, and some limited restrictions on what you can do with the gearbox. Engine - top end - just don't mess with the bore & stroke.

It's not like the GP teams are running one-off carbon-fibre frames, ceramic brakes, and pneumatic valve actuation.

Get real...annodized billet anything is NOT what the production rule is all about. Bling, fuckin' bling. The GP teams are more likely to OD on stupid ideas than your AMA guy. There are very few restrictions on good tuners in your series, and too many superhero engineer nerds in theirs.

Don't tell me you don't remember RC finding the 4-T Suzuki impossible to ride and the R & D work that went into building a chassis to his liking. History has my back.
+1
Hawwy
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3/9/2012 4:21am
englishman wrote:
Osbournes bike worked well at SX this year for sure.
Get outta here... talking sense an all Wink
3/9/2012 4:40am Edited Date/Time 3/9/2012 6:51am
Sherwood wrote:
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX? The AMA outdoor tracks develop different...
You want them to call Yamaha Europe and ask them for what? An outdoor setting that will work in SX?

The AMA outdoor tracks develop different than the GP's.
RACEGUY wrote:
I, too, am always shocked at how dense some of these people are. Do we need ID checks, or IQ checks, or moderated death? Works bikes...AMA...
I, too, am always shocked at how dense some of these people are. Do we need ID checks, or IQ checks, or moderated death?

Works bikes...AMA production rules...do people really think there is THAT much difference?...in the age of 4-strokes?? Read the rules. It saves you from hurting yourself when shooting off your mouth.
X2

I'm pretty at the end of the day performance wise there's nothing in it,GPs run tighter exhaust restrictions and lower octane fuel too don't they? There will be tuning/alterations to engine set up to accommodate for this but both series can and do run a lot of trick parts,long gone are days of the exotic machines of yesteryear,that said even some parts back then may well have had as much of a placebo effect as a performance effect too

Desalle was very impressed with the bike he rode in that National he did,and even though he couldn't run his own suspension,Osborne has been mentioned too
PaleBlue
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3/10/2012 3:11am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2012 3:12am
steedmills wrote:
.
PaleBlue wrote:
WSB effort???
steedmills wrote:
.
I'm well aware that WSB stands for World SuperBike. My point is that there are NO Yamaha's in WSB any longer. All Yamahas budget is being spent on Moto-GP, and with no title sponser to pick up that bill it's a LOT of money. This is probably a contributing factor to the amount of factory support the supercross team's receiving at the moment.

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