Yamaha,Suzuki, Kawasaki Factory Edition?

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2/19/2020 9:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2020 9:56 AM

Why doesn't these brands do a factory edition on their 450s? I would totally buy it a factory edition bike.

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2/19/2020 9:54 AM

You would "totally" buy three new 450s ?

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Violence You Can Believe In

2/19/2020 9:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2020 9:58 AM

Next year's updates a few months early at a price premium on a Suzuki?
Sign me up!

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2/19/2020 9:57 AM

usp4u wrote:

You would "totally" buy three new 450s ?

no smart ass. I ride Yamahas and I feel like these brands could be missing out on revenue.

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2/19/2020 10:44 AM

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

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2/19/2020 10:48 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

with KTM/Husky you get more then slip on. Better wheels and triple clamps too. which if done separately after purchase would make up the cost difference and then some.

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2/19/2020 10:53 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

soggy wrote:

with KTM/Husky you get more then slip on. Better wheels and triple clamps too. which if done separately after purchase would make up the cost difference and then some.

correct, and with the Honda you get a bunch of stuff other than graphics and slip ons as well

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

2/19/2020 10:54 AM

The Factory Edition was used by KTM to get around Homologation rules so they could have their factory riders riding the most up to date technology (that would follow in the coming year's production bike).

I doubt they looked at this as a big money grab. But as of late, with less drastic updates to the machines, the highlight of the bikes have been just graphics, slip on, clamps and some bling. In fact, I bet they jack up the prices so that they don't have to produce a ton and meet the supply/demand curve at the minimun units they're willing to produce.

Unrelated fun fact: Rolex was faced with increasing demand, to keep up with demand they would have had to expand production and operations. Instead of wanting more volume, they jacked up the price so that the existing supply equaled out to the demand. (they raised the price so that new demand was lowered back to existing volume).

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2/19/2020 11:04 AM

Hudd_421 wrote:

The Factory Edition was used by KTM to get around Homologation rules so they could have their factory riders riding the most up to date technology (that would follow in the coming year's production bike).

I doubt they looked at this as a big money grab. But as of late, with less drastic updates to the machines, the highlight of the bikes have been just graphics, slip on, clamps and some bling. In fact, I bet they jack up the prices so that they don't have to produce a ton and meet the supply/demand curve at the minimun units they're willing to produce.

Unrelated fun fact: Rolex was faced with increasing demand, to keep up with demand they would have had to expand production and operations. Instead of wanting more volume, they jacked up the price so that the existing supply equaled out to the demand. (they raised the price so that new demand was lowered back to existing volume).

Not only that, Rolex cut their Dealer network by 2/3. My wife is a Jeweler, and she says Rolex has actually cut back on production.

As far as factory editions go, one could assume that Yam, Kaw and Suzuki in may not think that producing Factory Editions may make any difference in sales.

Honda now has HRC running their show, so you have a group of race guys giving input.

KTM is of course run by racers and not accountants...

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2/19/2020 11:07 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

soggy wrote:

with KTM/Husky you get more then slip on. Better wheels and triple clamps too. which if done separately after purchase would make up the cost difference and then some.

kiwifan wrote:

correct, and with the Honda you get a bunch of stuff other than graphics and slip ons as well

Bingo.

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2/19/2020 11:13 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

I don't think I've ever seen a local pro or fast guy on an FE around here, but the Fox Raceway Vet track is littered with FE Garage Queens on the weekends...

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2/19/2020 11:28 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

Brent wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen a local pro or fast guy on an FE around here, but the Fox Raceway Vet track is littered with FE Garage Queens on the weekends...

It's funny you mentioned that. I just noticed several local pros buy Factory Edition KTMs because they already come with premium wheels, clamps, and exhaust which is about all that most of them do to a 450. My local dealer used to get 1 bike. Now I think they get 3-4. I don't buy that "rich guy' BS anymore. I also don't think everyone pays MSRP. I'm not trying to argue, as I probably wouldn't buy one. But the minute you think that they are only going to sell a FE to some 45 yr old vet guy, some 18 year old kid will walk out the door with a $25k side by side.

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2/19/2020 11:52 AM

bierbower105 wrote:

I don't understand the factory edition appeal. - corny red bull graphics and a slip on?


for 10-12k? What am I missing here?


Most of the factory edition owners I see are well off vet guys.

Brent wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen a local pro or fast guy on an FE around here, but the Fox Raceway Vet track is littered with FE Garage Queens on the weekends...

MXer391 wrote:

It's funny you mentioned that. I just noticed several local pros buy Factory Edition KTMs because they already come with premium wheels, clamps, and exhaust which is about all that most of them do to a 450. My local dealer used to get 1 bike. Now I think they get 3-4. I don't buy that "rich guy' BS anymore. I also don't think everyone pays MSRP. I'm not trying to argue, as I probably wouldn't buy one. But the minute you think that they are only going to sell a FE to some 45 yr old vet guy, some 18 year old kid will walk out the door with a $25k side by side.

amen to that. To me its worth the money for what you get out of that FE.

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2/19/2020 12:04 PM

Dirty Points wrote:

Next year's updates a few months early at a price premium on a Suzuki?
Sign me up!

the shiny titanium kickstarter would be worth it imho.

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2/19/2020 12:10 PM

kawi should re-release monster editions like they did in 09. I have a 450 and 250 monster edition and they came with green hubs and black wheels with custom plastics and graphics.

Maybe the 2021 version has the same graphics, wheels and a PC pipe like ET’s bike with some motocross suspension valving and better ecu settings. Maybe be like ktm too and try out better frame designs or something.

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2/19/2020 12:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2020 12:13 PM

Why not just buy a brand new 2018 RMZ450 for $6k and spend another $4k making it really "factory?" A-kit suspension, anodized blink, gripper seat, red bull butt plug, etc...

Call it a DIY Factory Edition

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2/19/2020 12:18 PM

usp4u wrote:

You would "totally" buy three new 450s ?

Tyler_Coff303 wrote:

no smart ass. I ride Yamahas and I feel like these brands could be missing out on revenue.

I could be way off base, but the FE model is more about product development and less about revenue. FE Buyers are more than likely already KTM/Husky buyers. Just like you’re a Yamaha guy that would buy a Yamaha FE. How much additional revenue does that generate and is it profitable revenue? Now, if it could draw buyers from other brands it would make sense.

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2/19/2020 12:22 PM

Takes a lot of logistics and the Japanese companies are bigger. Would be hard to make it work.

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2/19/2020 12:25 PM

usp4u wrote:

You would "totally" buy three new 450s ?

Tyler_Coff303 wrote:

no smart ass. I ride Yamahas and I feel like these brands could be missing out on revenue.

Panic_Rev wrote:

I could be way off base, but the FE model is more about product development and less about revenue. FE Buyers are more than likely already KTM/Husky buyers. Just like you’re a Yamaha guy that would buy a Yamaha FE. How much additional revenue does that generate and is it profitable revenue? Now, if it could draw buyers from other brands it would make sense.

its 100% an investment. You are putting top tier brands or equipment to later get that return in later purchases. A lot of companies will look at the revenue but a lot of them are going to look at the marketing value of it. I'm sure they are making money off those bikes might not be a lot but they aren't at a loss.

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2/19/2020 12:28 PM

Hudd_421 wrote:

The Factory Edition was used by KTM to get around Homologation rules so they could have their factory riders riding the most up to date technology (that would follow in the coming year's production bike).

I doubt they looked at this as a big money grab. But as of late, with less drastic updates to the machines, the highlight of the bikes have been just graphics, slip on, clamps and some bling. In fact, I bet they jack up the prices so that they don't have to produce a ton and meet the supply/demand curve at the minimun units they're willing to produce.

Unrelated fun fact: Rolex was faced with increasing demand, to keep up with demand they would have had to expand production and operations. Instead of wanting more volume, they jacked up the price so that the existing supply equaled out to the demand. (they raised the price so that new demand was lowered back to existing volume).

i think at first it was just to get around the homologation rules ( and because dungey needed the new chassis to win), but they have continued to do it because of the success. *I think they have to have atleast 400, or 500 in the country to meet that rule and atleast around here they sell out very quick. I doubt any other manufacturers jump on board though. And def not suzuki considering they don't even have a factory team.

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2/19/2020 12:30 PM

Hudd_421 wrote:

The Factory Edition was used by KTM to get around Homologation rules so they could have their factory riders riding the most up to date technology (that would follow in the coming year's production bike).

I doubt they looked at this as a big money grab. But as of late, with less drastic updates to the machines, the highlight of the bikes have been just graphics, slip on, clamps and some bling. In fact, I bet they jack up the prices so that they don't have to produce a ton and meet the supply/demand curve at the minimun units they're willing to produce.

Unrelated fun fact: Rolex was faced with increasing demand, to keep up with demand they would have had to expand production and operations. Instead of wanting more volume, they jacked up the price so that the existing supply equaled out to the demand. (they raised the price so that new demand was lowered back to existing volume).

soggy wrote:

i think at first it was just to get around the homologation rules ( and because dungey needed the new chassis to win), but they have continued to do it because of the success. *I think they have to have atleast 400, or 500 in the country to meet that rule and atleast around here they sell out very quick. I doubt any other manufacturers jump on board though. And def not suzuki considering they don't even have a factory team.

I really feel with the success that yamaha has been having with the 250 side of things or even the 450. They would see a great market with it.

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2/19/2020 12:37 PM

Hudd_421 wrote:

The Factory Edition was used by KTM to get around Homologation rules so they could have their factory riders riding the most up to date technology (that would follow in the coming year's production bike).

I doubt they looked at this as a big money grab. But as of late, with less drastic updates to the machines, the highlight of the bikes have been just graphics, slip on, clamps and some bling. In fact, I bet they jack up the prices so that they don't have to produce a ton and meet the supply/demand curve at the minimun units they're willing to produce.

Unrelated fun fact: Rolex was faced with increasing demand, to keep up with demand they would have had to expand production and operations. Instead of wanting more volume, they jacked up the price so that the existing supply equaled out to the demand. (they raised the price so that new demand was lowered back to existing volume).

soggy wrote:

i think at first it was just to get around the homologation rules ( and because dungey needed the new chassis to win), but they have continued to do it because of the success. *I think they have to have atleast 400, or 500 in the country to meet that rule and atleast around here they sell out very quick. I doubt any other manufacturers jump on board though. And def not suzuki considering they don't even have a factory team.

Tyler_Coff303 wrote:

I really feel with the success that yamaha has been having with the 250 side of things or even the 450. They would see a great market with it.

I don't think the success of the race team would affect the market that much. I know a few guys who bought Rockstar Husky's and neither of them bought them because of the success of the husky factory team. I think it boils down to what is offered on the bike compared to the normal version. The amount of leftover bikes I see here from Yam, Kaw, and Zuke lead me to believe there wouldn't be a huge market.

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2/19/2020 12:44 PM

kiwifan wrote:

correct, and with the Honda you get a bunch of stuff other than graphics and slip ons as well

🤔

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2/19/2020 12:45 PM

soggy wrote:

i think at first it was just to get around the homologation rules ( and because dungey needed the new chassis to win), but they have continued to do it because of the success. *I think they have to have atleast 400, or 500 in the country to meet that rule and atleast around here they sell out very quick. I doubt any other manufacturers jump on board though. And def not suzuki considering they don't even have a factory team.

Tyler_Coff303 wrote:

I really feel with the success that yamaha has been having with the 250 side of things or even the 450. They would see a great market with it.

soggy wrote:

I don't think the success of the race team would affect the market that much. I know a few guys who bought Rockstar Husky's and neither of them bought them because of the success of the husky factory team. I think it boils down to what is offered on the bike compared to the normal version. The amount of leftover bikes I see here from Yam, Kaw, and Zuke lead me to believe there wouldn't be a huge market.

I think racing does 2 things in regards to bike sales:

1. Reinforces perception (back in the 90's Honda dominated and we were reminded with McGrath that the Honda was probably the best bike throughout the decade (before 97 lol)
2. Can improve a stigmatized perception. Yamaha has come along way from being the butt of many jokes. Once their 250f came out and dominated, and now that Barcia has turned the corner on his 2020 YZ, our perception of the YZ is alot better.

You may be saying to yourself...Suzuki dominated, and had modern riders (ala Dungey and Roczen) win on their bike and that dind't improve perception....well you're right. There's no helping the boys in yellow silly grin

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2/19/2020 12:46 PM

That kit JGR was selling for the RMZ's was kinda like a diy factory edition, I kinda wish I would have snagged one before they quit selling them but oh well.

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2/19/2020 12:48 PM

Yamaha's are so good they run them stock bro, no factory edition needed

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2/19/2020 1:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2020 1:13 PM

Harv379 wrote:

Yamaha's are so good they run them stock bro, no factory edition needed

the great thing about the 2020 YZ450F is that it is great all around bike for most riders of all abilities, you can argue the Suzuki 450 suits amateur/vet riders and the Honda 450 the pros (+ the WE's and FE's).

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

2/19/2020 1:22 PM

MXer391 wrote:

It's funny you mentioned that. I just noticed several local pros buy Factory Edition KTMs because they already come with premium wheels, clamps, and exhaust which is about all that most of them do to a 450. My local dealer used to get 1 bike. Now I think they get 3-4. I don't buy that "rich guy' BS anymore. I also don't think everyone pays MSRP. I'm not trying to argue, as I probably wouldn't buy one. But the minute you think that they are only going to sell a FE to some 45 yr old vet guy, some 18 year old kid will walk out the door with a $25k side by side.

Oil field guys are big into the SxS's. They have the coin to spend.

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2/19/2020 1:31 PM

I think it's fine to have a factory edition. But I don't think it's necessary for the other brands to fall in line. If you want a factory edition Yamaha then fork over the extra cash and get it with the full GYTR setup.

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2/19/2020 1:50 PM

Tyler_Coff303 wrote:

I really feel with the success that yamaha has been having with the 250 side of things or even the 450. They would see a great market with it.

soggy wrote:

I don't think the success of the race team would affect the market that much. I know a few guys who bought Rockstar Husky's and neither of them bought them because of the success of the husky factory team. I think it boils down to what is offered on the bike compared to the normal version. The amount of leftover bikes I see here from Yam, Kaw, and Zuke lead me to believe there wouldn't be a huge market.

Hudd_421 wrote:

I think racing does 2 things in regards to bike sales:

1. Reinforces perception (back in the 90's Honda dominated and we were reminded with McGrath that the Honda was probably the best bike throughout the decade (before 97 lol)
2. Can improve a stigmatized perception. Yamaha has come along way from being the butt of many jokes. Once their 250f came out and dominated, and now that Barcia has turned the corner on his 2020 YZ, our perception of the YZ is alot better.

You may be saying to yourself...Suzuki dominated, and had modern riders (ala Dungey and Roczen) win on their bike and that dind't improve perception....well you're right. There's no helping the boys in yellow silly grin

1. Int he 90's I think it mattered more. Now you have badass riders in all aspects of the sport on all brands doing badass stuff.

2. Barcia hasnt really turned any corners he's getting the same results he was last year until he got injured.

Basing how a factory rider does on a bike to guide your purchase is foolish. Even the 'factory' edition is a far cry from what they actually are using.

I think good mag/media (Keefer) reviews have altered the perception of the yz more then anything.

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