YZF250 is an unfair advantage compared to the rest

tek14
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tek14 9/19/2020 10:10pm
9/19/2020 10:10pm
d394 wrote:
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
langhammx wrote:
Huh ? 50HP is about all you’re going to get from any of the 250’s, without losing all the bottom end/ torque. Mitch’s bikes were blowing...
Huh ?

50HP is about all you’re going to get from any of the 250’s, without losing all the bottom end/ torque. Mitch’s bikes were blowing up trying to keep up with Geico and Star bikes. I doubt he’s able to pull as much from the Kawi
Isnt new Kawasaki 250f with bigger valves and pretty much same "base" as KTM/others? They even did make intake angle to make it closer to Yamaha also, so what is keeping them to match Honda numbers?
Motofinne
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Motofinne 9/19/2020 10:21pm
9/19/2020 10:21pm
Jett cleared the difficult triple step up with ease just like the Star Yamahas.
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 9/19/2020 11:21pm
9/19/2020 11:21pm
Motofinne wrote:
Jett cleared the difficult triple step up with ease just like the Star Yamahas.
I noticed that too. And he’s bigger than Hampshire who was casing it almost every lap, same with A Mart. Good on Geico....
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LKHill
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LKHill 9/19/2020 11:39pm
9/19/2020 11:39pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2020 11:44pm
I would estimate 1-2 on top and a little more in the middle. Unfair? This is the kind of thinking that has destroyed all most all other forms of motor racing. Why not just give everybody participation trophies and call it a day.
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NoonMoon
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NoonMoon 9/20/2020 1:59am
9/20/2020 1:59am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2020 2:09am
toomanykaws wrote:
4-5 hp easy. But the torque. Doesn’t matter the Star rider if they got a clear shot and crack the throttle and hook. They pull on...
4-5 hp easy. But the torque. Doesn’t matter the Star rider if they got a clear shot and crack the throttle and hook. They pull on whatever is next to them.
Nairb#70 wrote:
4-5 easy? Surely you jest. With that much more it wouldn't even be a race. But as far as the rest of your post, you're spot...
4-5 easy? Surely you jest. With that much more it wouldn't even be a race. But as far as the rest of your post, you're spot on.
5% more under the curve maybe a bit more peak is about right.
Bikes look like they are 280's
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NoonMoon
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NoonMoon 9/20/2020 2:07am
9/20/2020 2:07am
d394 wrote:
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
langhammx wrote:
Huh ? 50HP is about all you’re going to get from any of the 250’s, without losing all the bottom end/ torque. Mitch’s bikes were blowing...
Huh ?

50HP is about all you’re going to get from any of the 250’s, without losing all the bottom end/ torque. Mitch’s bikes were blowing up trying to keep up with Geico and Star bikes. I doubt he’s able to pull as much from the Kawi
tek14 wrote:
Isnt new Kawasaki 250f with bigger valves and pretty much same "base" as KTM/others? They even did make intake angle to make it closer to Yamaha...
Isnt new Kawasaki 250f with bigger valves and pretty much same "base" as KTM/others? They even did make intake angle to make it closer to Yamaha also, so what is keeping them to match Honda numbers?
It will be really detailed work on the intake port and further upstream; not necessarily a visible big difference. Remember the 1000 cc Moto GP bikes are making upwards of 60 to 65 hp per cylinder

Mixture tumble-like a barrel rolling in the cylinder is the name of the game with modern 4 valve engines.

Whoever is doing the Star cylinder heads -CNC porting from a good base- and providing the valves and springs- knows their craft.

They could be running 16:1 compression and a degree or 2 less advance than the competition.
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NoonMoon
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NoonMoon 9/20/2020 2:10am
9/20/2020 2:10am
It will be really detailed work on the intake port and further upstream; not necessarily a visible big difference. Remember the 1000 cc Moto GP bikes are making upwards of 60 to 65 hp per cylinder

Mixture tumble-like a barrel rolling in the cylinder is the name of the game with modern 4 valve engines.

Whoever is doing the Star cylinder heads -CNC porting from a good base- and providing the valves and springs- knows their craft.

They could be running 16:1 compression and a degree or 2 less advance than the competition.
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inthebadboycorner 9/20/2020 2:18am
9/20/2020 2:18am
motokiwi wrote:
How many more HP do you think a STAR YZF250 makes than a GEICO CRF250? 5?
d394 wrote:
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
There are Green YZ250f,s?
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Ingjr1
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Ingjr1 9/20/2020 3:09am
9/20/2020 3:09am
You guys ever watch MXGP? Whole different story on the other side of the map.
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AC271
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AC271 9/20/2020 4:19am
9/20/2020 4:19am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2020 4:19am
Unfair? Sounds like Star has worked their asses off to figure out extra speed and the others need to catch up....
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Philly215
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Philly215 9/20/2020 4:20am
9/20/2020 4:20am
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win. My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules...
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win.

My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules similar to Limited at Lorettas. More riders could compete and would push more to the 450 class.
Probably not a bad idea because it’s harder to compete in the 250 class then 450. With the 450s you can get away with a more stock motor. In the 250s you can’t compete unless you have a super built motor. And those those also need to get replaced more. So hard for someone coming up to compete when it costs more to run a 250 program.
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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 9/20/2020 4:21am
9/20/2020 4:21am
Motofinne wrote:
Jett cleared the difficult triple step up with ease just like the Star Yamahas.
hubbardmx50 wrote:
I noticed that too. And he’s bigger than Hampshire who was casing it almost every lap, same with A Mart. Good on Geico....
I think some of the clearing of the step up was line choice by Hampshire trying to block Ferrandis from coming through and perhaps gear/gearing choice.

But doesn't hide that the Star Yamaha's consistently start at the front of the pack and must be pack'n. I remember a Washougal Nat'l a few years back where it was (?) four Yamaha's at the front of the start.
motoarmageddon 9/21/2020 9:40am
9/21/2020 9:40am
Motocross action still pumps up Ktm “44 hp, until you have 44 hp youre just an also-ran...”. Tell that to Yam and Honda. Oh and mention it to the KTM riders too
Johnny Lock 9/21/2020 10:59am
9/21/2020 10:59am
AC271 wrote:
Unfair? Sounds like Star has worked their asses off to figure out extra speed and the others need to catch up....
Star Yamaha 250 = Broad.

Broad - something my dad used to call my mom when he was mad usually prefaced by “dumb” or “stupid”.

Broad - wide of depth or something like that.
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mx317
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mx317 9/21/2020 11:19am
9/21/2020 11:19am
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win. My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules...
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win.

My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules similar to Limited at Lorettas. More riders could compete and would push more to the 450 class.
vitalriderCrf wrote:
I really like this idea. What exactly could teams like Geico and Star not do that would make it more fair for privateers though? There’s really...
I really like this idea. What exactly could teams like Geico and Star not do that would make it more fair for privateers though? There’s really good product available for privateers to buy, I guess it just depends on your budget. It’s not like Star is running special fuel that privateers can’t buy or something (not making an inside joke here LOL). There’s already a price limit on 250 suspension right? Maybe they could have a price limit on engines possibly? I’m just spit balling..
It’s probably the long hours of dyno room, dirt dyno and R&D that Privateers don’t have access to that really makes the difference.
No rule on outdoor suspension I believe. There was on SX stuff at one time, but not sure if it's still in the rulebook.
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MotoChris
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MotoChris 9/21/2020 11:55am
9/21/2020 11:55am
Bigoldbeef wrote:
They’re 4 now
Brad460 wrote:
Ban 4 valves Wink
CPR wrote:
Ban valves!

....unless it’s a power valve of course.....
Or REED VALVES.
kijen
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kijen 9/21/2020 12:10pm
9/21/2020 12:10pm
unfair? Is this compition or not, i dont understand the belief that every one or everything is equal, the race is to show what team or individual id better, either through equipment or skill. If you want fair then give out participation trophies.
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philG
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philG 9/21/2020 12:27pm
9/21/2020 12:27pm
motokiwi wrote:
How many more HP do you think a STAR YZF250 makes than a GEICO CRF250? 5?
d394 wrote:
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
Only if you have a 10hp stick .

rohr397
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rohr397 9/21/2020 1:06pm
9/21/2020 1:06pm
NoonMoon wrote:
It will be really detailed work on the intake port and further upstream; not necessarily a visible big difference. Remember the 1000 cc Moto GP bikes...
It will be really detailed work on the intake port and further upstream; not necessarily a visible big difference. Remember the 1000 cc Moto GP bikes are making upwards of 60 to 65 hp per cylinder

Mixture tumble-like a barrel rolling in the cylinder is the name of the game with modern 4 valve engines.

Whoever is doing the Star cylinder heads -CNC porting from a good base- and providing the valves and springs- knows their craft.

They could be running 16:1 compression and a degree or 2 less advance than the competition.
I believe DASA Racing handles (or handled) their head work.
Falcon
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Falcon 9/21/2020 1:10pm
9/21/2020 1:10pm
250cc. Not an unfair advantage.

Oh, wait.....
RMT
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RMT 9/21/2020 1:51pm
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