Would racing be better on bone stock bikes?

thehuck.0
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thehuck.0
Edited Date/Time 9/20/2012 10:52pm
All racers would be required to race bone stock bikes...only bars could be changed.

Or would it make stock bikes cost $25,000?
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ninesevenfour 9/20/2012 11:00am
9/20/2012 11:00am
I'm not sure whether or not it would raise the cost of bikes. But it would kill the professional racing series. It would eliminate money and product coming from all of the aftermarket companies..

Also in my opinion good suspension is necessary for those guys!
GuyB
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GuyB 9/20/2012 11:12am
9/20/2012 11:12am
No.

Also, there are lots of smart people on the race teams, and enforcement would be far beyond a nightmare.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/20/2012 11:15am
9/20/2012 11:15am
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book?

*The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire field.

I think this year's results achieved by MCR might suggest a certain "point of view"...?

Some of you will miss the Few Factory goodies you do get to see. Especially you Hondaphiles!
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BAMX 9/20/2012 11:27am
9/20/2012 11:27am
GuyB wrote:
No.

Also, there are lots of smart people on the race teams, and enforcement would be far beyond a nightmare.
Right on the money GuyB.....If you look at other series like NASCAR which have spec series. They are a nightmare. First, everyone thinks everyone else is cheating. Second, everyone is in fact cheating. In the end, it cost more to polish your turd than to just buy the good stuff.

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slipdog
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slipdog 9/20/2012 11:30am
9/20/2012 11:30am
Yes it would!

The top guys will still win, but the guys that can't afford $5k motors, $8k suspension and $30.00/gal gas would be much more competitive.
thehuck.0
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thehuck.0 9/20/2012 11:31am
9/20/2012 11:31am
slipdog wrote:
Yes it would! The top guys will still win, but the guys that can't afford $5k motors, $8k suspension and $30.00/gal gas would be much more...
Yes it would!

The top guys will still win, but the guys that can't afford $5k motors, $8k suspension and $30.00/gal gas would be much more competitive.
Kind of what I was thinking...
GuyB
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GuyB 9/20/2012 11:37am
9/20/2012 11:37am
TeamGreen wrote:
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book? *The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire...
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book?

*The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire field.

I think this year's results achieved by MCR might suggest a certain "point of view"...?

Some of you will miss the Few Factory goodies you do get to see. Especially you Hondaphiles!
While Mike's bikes are production-based, they're obviously nowhere near stock...and I can think of one time this season when it was apart and I was asked, "Can you please not shoot that particular part?"
therealjonon
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therealjonon 9/20/2012 11:46am
9/20/2012 11:46am
TeamGreen wrote:
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book? *The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire...
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book?

*The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire field.

I think this year's results achieved by MCR might suggest a certain "point of view"...?

Some of you will miss the Few Factory goodies you do get to see. Especially you Hondaphiles!
GuyB wrote:
While Mike's bikes are production-based, they're obviously nowhere near stock...and I can think of one time this season when it was apart and I was asked...
While Mike's bikes are production-based, they're obviously nowhere near stock...and I can think of one time this season when it was apart and I was asked, "Can you please not shoot that particular part?"
that's suspicious Wink
scott_nz
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scott_nz 9/20/2012 11:51am
9/20/2012 11:51am
GuyB wrote:
No.

Also, there are lots of smart people on the race teams, and enforcement would be far beyond a nightmare.
agreed, when was the last time you saw a bike pulled down to check the current rules,

also, most stock 250F's would not handle the top guys revving them like they do on their race bikes now,
GuyB
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GuyB 9/20/2012 11:57am
9/20/2012 11:57am
therealjonon wrote:
that's suspicious Wink
Not really. I try to honor reasonable requests like that. They obviously felt like it was something that they had that no one else did, and I saw it while walking through their pit area.
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FastEddy 9/20/2012 12:01pm
9/20/2012 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/20/2012 12:06pm
thehuck.0 wrote:
All racers would be required to race bone stock bikes...only bars could be changed.

Or would it make stock bikes cost $25,000?
There were guys back in the 1980's & 1990's that pretty much ran stock setups like you are talking about and I would assume there are still a few here & there.
Seen some riders holeshot nationals back in the day on bone stock bikes against the factory guys - true story.
I always wanted to see a stock/manufactures class and then a mod/works class at the top of the pro ranks. Smile
I always thought it would be interesting to see how it would work at another angel of marketing for the factories/manufactures.
But I do not think it would make the racing any better....just may help with marketing in a sense.It may also give the consumer a look at stock bikes being pushed to higher levels then what they are used to seeing at local races.
If that makes any sense.
It could possibly open the door for other and or new manufactures to get involved in pro racing at the stock level.
Rather then try to step up to the plate and be far in over their heads.
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OldYZRider1 9/20/2012 12:08pm
9/20/2012 12:08pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2012 7:01am
Could follow the Moto3 GP roadracing concept; let the teams build the bike frame and suspension, Honda supplies the motors. Engine wise their all the same performance. Let the differences in the riders come out; reduce the focus on the machinery? We're halfway to this concept anyway with the effective elimination of the two stroke engine based bikes now.

Maybe go full IROC concept. Let the manufacturers bid on supplying all the bike used in a pro racing class for the season and have them prep them all equally. Then the only difference is the rider!

Edit: Realized I stated this wrong, its the Moto2 GP class that allows teams to build the bikes; Honda supplies the 4 cylinder 600cc motors. Don't know if the other manufacturers get any piece of the action or not.

Moto3 is the 125cc two stroke replacement class running 250cc four stroke engines. Appears that only Honda and KTM are building engines for that class. Looks like KTM's gonna take the title this year. Just another feather in their cap for their racing efforts this year!
slipdog
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slipdog 9/20/2012 12:10pm
9/20/2012 12:10pm
slipdog wrote:
Yes it would! The top guys will still win, but the guys that can't afford $5k motors, $8k suspension and $30.00/gal gas would be much more...
Yes it would!

The top guys will still win, but the guys that can't afford $5k motors, $8k suspension and $30.00/gal gas would be much more competitive.
thehuck.0 wrote:
Kind of what I was thinking...
Back in the day when the World Mini still had the Race of Champions, the results were much less predictable with everyone on stock KX 80's than the normal 80exp classes... "and it's another win for the R&D Suzukis!" Whistling
julienmark
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julienmark 9/20/2012 12:20pm
9/20/2012 12:20pm
Of course this would kill the aftermarket accseory companies.
tns
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tns 9/20/2012 12:23pm
9/20/2012 12:23pm
yes it would if at the begining of the year each of the manufacturers gave bikes to the teams who were using their bikes and the teams then had to put the bikes into an ama lock up enough bikes were taken to each race to provide the teams with bikes for the race then the racing would be closer.i raced a production car class and at the first meeting of the year our engines were sealed if you needed to work on you engine because of a faliure then a scrutineer come and watched then resealed the engine.
If any car seemed much faster than everyone else someone would protest and the car would be stripped.The racing was very close had to do more body work than engine
gabrielmalinois 9/20/2012 12:39pm
9/20/2012 12:39pm
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add a little more intrigue to the whole thing.
dkg
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dkg 9/20/2012 12:46pm
9/20/2012 12:46pm
No.

I see it hurting the aftermarket guys as well as slowing bike development.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/20/2012 1:00pm
9/20/2012 1:00pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book? *The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire...
Would racing be better w/ a much more "Production" oriented(*) & truly production based rule book?

*The Elimination of any/all parts not avail to the entire field.

I think this year's results achieved by MCR might suggest a certain "point of view"...?

Some of you will miss the Few Factory goodies you do get to see. Especially you Hondaphiles!
GuyB wrote:
While Mike's bikes are production-based, they're obviously nowhere near stock...and I can think of one time this season when it was apart and I was asked...
While Mike's bikes are production-based, they're obviously nowhere near stock...and I can think of one time this season when it was apart and I was asked, "Can you please not shoot that particular part?"
therealjonon wrote:
that's suspicious Wink
OK,

Now we're getting into "Muzzyisms" (named for Rob Muzz's contempt for the AMAs use of so-called "Production Rules" & the way the various entities ignore them).

Everything done to Mike's bikes was done with parts that came from waaaaay outside the Factory Realm & are of the EXACT same caliber as Chad's bikes over at 11-Ten; however, the 2 different Teams have a different "selection" of Parts, Sponsors, Tuners & Experience.

Also, both Teams have their Secrets...& for good reasons...they have figured things out that they DON'T want to share w/ the Competition; hence, "Hey, uh...Steve? We'd rather not have THAT photo'd!"

The Point:

Mike's Bikes are ATTAINABLE.
11-Ten will build you a 250F that can win a SX/MX Nats Lites race.

In both cases, you're gonna need a good rider.

I am truly...jus' knowin'...

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GuyB
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GuyB 9/20/2012 1:08pm
9/20/2012 1:08pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add...
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add a little more intrigue to the whole thing.
I think the open rules package for the MEC is a whole lot more intriguing than a showroom stock race.
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Racer92 9/20/2012 1:11pm
9/20/2012 1:11pm
dkg wrote:
No.

I see it hurting the aftermarket guys as well as slowing bike development.
Like a weekend warrior can use all the power & suspension of ANY 2012 dirt bike out there already?

These bikes have way, way surpassed what the average bubba needs.
gabrielmalinois 9/20/2012 1:23pm
9/20/2012 1:23pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add...
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add a little more intrigue to the whole thing.
GuyB wrote:
I think the open rules package for the MEC is a whole lot more intriguing than a showroom stock race.
I don't know, I think it would be cool to see some of the other guys feel like they had a shot to win the $1,000,000. It certainly would make it more competitive. I think you would see some guys really hang it out and if they knew they were on the same equipment. A million bucks is a pretty motivating force, and guys who are accustomed to riding more stock like bikes might fare pretty well in that scenario.
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GuyB 9/20/2012 1:33pm
9/20/2012 1:33pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
I don't know, I think it would be cool to see some of the other guys feel like they had a shot to win the $1,000,000...
I don't know, I think it would be cool to see some of the other guys feel like they had a shot to win the $1,000,000. It certainly would make it more competitive. I think you would see some guys really hang it out and if they knew they were on the same equipment. A million bucks is a pretty motivating force, and guys who are accustomed to riding more stock like bikes might fare pretty well in that scenario.
My .02 when it comes to racing for $1,000,00? I think the results would be almost exactly the same if they were on stock bikes or their full-blown fire-breathers...but they'd actually be safer on their regular race bikes.

If a stock component that's not as strong as an aftermarket component broke, and a rider got injured? That'd be a bad deal.
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slipdog 9/20/2012 1:54pm
9/20/2012 1:54pm
GuyB wrote:
My .02 when it comes to racing for $1,000,00? I think the results would be almost exactly the same if they were on stock bikes or...
My .02 when it comes to racing for $1,000,00? I think the results would be almost exactly the same if they were on stock bikes or their full-blown fire-breathers...but they'd actually be safer on their regular race bikes.

If a stock component that's not as strong as an aftermarket component broke, and a rider got injured? That'd be a bad deal.
Ask Craig Decker about how that worked out for him... Oh, wait, he was on a factory bike. Wink
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GuyB 9/20/2012 2:03pm
9/20/2012 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/20/2012 2:04pm
slipdog wrote:
Ask Craig Decker about how that worked out for him... Oh, wait, he was on a factory bike. Wink
As long as motorcycles are being ridden, stuff will break. But as an example, I'd rather see guys who are going big on aftermarket wheels than stockers.
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reded 9/20/2012 2:08pm
9/20/2012 2:08pm
dkg wrote:
No.

I see it hurting the aftermarket guys as well as slowing bike development.
Racer92 wrote:
Like a weekend warrior can use all the power & suspension of [i]ANY[/i] 2012 dirt bike out there already? These bikes have way, way surpassed what...
Like a weekend warrior can use all the power & suspension of ANY 2012 dirt bike out there already?

These bikes have way, way surpassed what the average bubba needs.
Kinda what I was thinking. How much faster do they need to go? How much more techno, geegollywhiz bullshit do they need to bolt on them?
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Racer92 9/20/2012 2:15pm
9/20/2012 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 9/20/2012 2:16pm
reded wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking. How much faster do they need to go? How much more techno, geegollywhiz bullshit do they need to bolt on them?
It could be argued, and Id bet supported with data, that these newer 4-strokes have given the average weekend bubba WAY more confidence than their skill is prepared to handle. With the smokers, if you wanted to clear a certain jump, you had to work up to it. Clearing jumps right out of corners, all of that. IMHO these newer bikes have put more guys in the ER than the smokers ever did. That was the beauty of the tiddler class, it caused young riders to learn to ride and polished their skill instead of letting an expensive valve muncher do the work for you.
thehuck.0
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thehuck.0 9/20/2012 2:15pm
9/20/2012 2:15pm
dkg wrote:
No.

I see it hurting the aftermarket guys as well as slowing bike development.
Racer92 wrote:
Like a weekend warrior can use all the power & suspension of [i]ANY[/i] 2012 dirt bike out there already? These bikes have way, way surpassed what...
Like a weekend warrior can use all the power & suspension of ANY 2012 dirt bike out there already?

These bikes have way, way surpassed what the average bubba needs.
Stewart Hater!
brakkeman_ 9/20/2012 2:17pm
9/20/2012 2:17pm
CP377 runs close to stock engines.

But hey, he's not even good enough for the French MXDN team.Unsure
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gsxr6 9/20/2012 2:20pm
9/20/2012 2:20pm
gabrielmalinois wrote:
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add...
What if it was just for a one off race like the MEC. I think that would up the exposure for the bike companies and add a little more intrigue to the whole thing.
GuyB wrote:
I think the open rules package for the MEC is a whole lot more intriguing than a showroom stock race.
this. As far as stock bikes, if it was done right now there would be way more mechanicals(think broken shocks, wheels, etc) short term as well as even MORE injuries. Long term the price of bikes would no doubt rise significantly. At that point 25000 dollar factory edition specials would be the norm while we would get something entirely different. Even if it happened, we'd see models winning that were imported by the hundreds not thousands . 400 bikes is the current homologation minimum right?

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