Would MC still be King in 4 stroke era?

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8/24/2020 3:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 3:16 PM

This excellent skill thread just made me recall how much of McGrath's unique skills were things he innately did for maintaining momentum through complicated sections.

Wondering... Would that skill even be a significant factor any more with so much traction and power on every bike?
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8/24/2020 3:22 PM

I would think if you took the same group of riders with the same skillset on todays bikes he would still have laid the smack down on everyone... however I think you are correct that the increase of traction and power of modern day machines would have taken away some of the advantage he had from his fluid style that suited a 2T so well

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8/24/2020 3:25 PM

When comparing athletes of different eras it is really hard. But I remember Mario Lemieux was asked a similar question on how him and Gretzky would be in modern hockey, as in could they dominate. He basically said yes. Reason is, they were on another level of their peers and pushed the boundaries of what other players could do at that time.

So in a way, I feel like that applies to MC. The guy is just so skilled and if he were coming up now, he would've been mastering all of the current techniques that have evolved since his day. So I think that still keeps him ahead of most of the guys now. He is a generational talent, much like RC, RV and Eli today. I believe the great ones would excel in any era. Just my opinion.

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8/24/2020 3:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 3:39 PM

AH387 wrote:

When comparing athletes of different eras it is really hard. But I remember Mario Lemieux was asked a similar question on how him and Gretzky would be in modern hockey, as in could they dominate. He basically said yes. Reason is, they were on another level of their peers and pushed the boundaries of what other players could do at that time.

So in a way, I feel like that applies to MC. The guy is just so skilled and if he were coming up now, he would've been mastering all of the current techniques that have evolved since his day. So I think that still keeps him ahead of most of the guys now. He is a generational talent, much like RC, RV and Eli today. I believe the great ones would excel in any era. Just my opinion.

I guess that is what I am asking. From a foundational standpoint: what he was a transcendent talent at (maintaining momentum through sections) may not even be in the top 5 of riding skills anymore.

Lemieux and Gretzky were still using the same basic equipment as a modern player. Yes, I know there have been advances, but they are still used in the exact way as their priors. So what if the equipment in soccer changed so fundamentally that Pele had to use his hands to play? Is he still a generational talent?

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8/24/2020 3:50 PM

Jeremy was not even born in the 4-stroke era........oh, you're speaking of the double displacement era. Never mind. 8-)

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8/24/2020 3:53 PM

Yes

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

8/24/2020 4:05 PM

Dirty Points wrote:

I guess that is what I am asking. From a foundational standpoint: what he was a transcendent talent at (maintaining momentum through sections) may not even be in the top 5 of riding skills anymore.

Lemieux and Gretzky were still using the same basic equipment as a modern player. Yes, I know there have been advances, but they are still used in the exact way as their priors. So what if the equipment in soccer changed so fundamentally that Pele had to use his hands to play? Is he still a generational talent?

I know nothing about soccer so I can't stray into that lol. But for hockey, the equipment changed, the rules have changed a bit and so has the play-style etc etc. So it's a lot different, yet still the same. But what made those guys great is their ability to adapt and push, given the era that they played in.

So for MC, I think had he come up in the scrub era, the 4stroke era etc, he's just a freak talent. So his level of progression still would've out-paced most of the pros, in my opinion. No way to know, of course, but I truly believe he would still be as great or close to it.

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8/24/2020 4:06 PM

Did you make a clerical error?I believe you meant RC and the answer is yes he would still dominate

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8/24/2020 4:09 PM

karsmakers wrote:

Did you make a clerical error?I believe you meant RC and the answer is yes he would still dominate

RC could dominate on Stacyc, I am talking about MC here.

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8/24/2020 4:20 PM

Sure


/thread

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8/24/2020 4:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 5:35 PM

AH387 wrote:

When comparing athletes of different eras it is really hard. But I remember Mario Lemieux was asked a similar question on how him and Gretzky would be in modern hockey, as in could they dominate. He basically said yes. Reason is, they were on another level of their peers and pushed the boundaries of what other players could do at that time.

So in a way, I feel like that applies to MC. The guy is just so skilled and if he were coming up now, he would've been mastering all of the current techniques that have evolved since his day. So I think that still keeps him ahead of most of the guys now. He is a generational talent, much like RC, RV and Eli today. I believe the great ones would excel in any era. Just my opinion.

Dirty Points wrote:

I guess that is what I am asking. From a foundational standpoint: what he was a transcendent talent at (maintaining momentum through sections) may not even be in the top 5 of riding skills anymore.

Lemieux and Gretzky were still using the same basic equipment as a modern player. Yes, I know there have been advances, but they are still used in the exact way as their priors. So what if the equipment in soccer changed so fundamentally that Pele had to use his hands to play? Is he still a generational talent?

AH387 wrote:

I know nothing about soccer so I can't stray into that lol. But for hockey, the equipment changed, the rules have changed a bit and so has the play-style etc etc. So it's a lot different, yet still the same. But what made those guys great is their ability to adapt and push, given the era that they played in.

So for MC, I think had he come up in the scrub era, the 4stroke era etc, he's just a freak talent. So his level of progression still would've out-paced most of the pros, in my opinion. No way to know, of course, but I truly believe he would still be as great or close to it.

A little primer on soccer.: It is just another ball/field sport like pretty much all of them. Rules are identical to hockey: you advance a ball/object up a field of play and attempt to put it in a goal. In fact, there is even a variant played on a hockey rink, with mostly hockey rules.

Soccer takes basically a lifetime to learn, and some people make hundreds of millions for how skilled they are.. But I have never heard of even "transcendent" talents to switch to even one other limb regardless of how talented they are.

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8/24/2020 4:36 PM

Fuck yeah brah

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scte3.0 pro-line trinity tekin

8/24/2020 4:41 PM

Jeremy was riding part time and did well is SX on a 450, that should tell ya something. The greats can ride anything.

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8/24/2020 4:48 PM

I think he would still be at the sharp end of the stick.

I think it took more skill to ride the 250 2 stroke than the modern era bikes. Also there is more parity now because of the bikes.

That said in MC's partime year back on a Honda he finished top 5 on a two stroke and four, he is just the King!

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8/24/2020 4:48 PM

Yes. He was the cream of the crop in SX no matter how many strokes he's riding.

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8/24/2020 4:51 PM

Mit12 wrote:

Jeremy was riding part time and did well is SX on a 450, that should tell ya something. The greats can ride anything.

But would his technical skill regularly surpass a current "point-and-shoot" kid?

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8/24/2020 5:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 5:46 PM

He would still have a partial advantage, but with larocco and swink having powerfful bikes, i dont see him winning so much. look how mc did in 97 on the suzuki. he couldnt jump low as often, as he didnt have the honda power..

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8/24/2020 5:59 PM

Photo
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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

8/24/2020 6:04 PM

Lol Gretzky and Lemieux would get waxed in today’s age of hockey. The athletes of today’s game are Olympic status in physical endurance, strength, and skill. They were not back in the day. The same applies to Mx.

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8/24/2020 6:36 PM

I was listening to the pulpmx "lazergate" podcast today for some entertainment, and a caller asked RV about comparisons to RC if they were both at the top of their game. RV said there is no way to know.

The speculation is left to us fans, and it's fun to speculate. My view is that these champions are champions no matter the era. Racers like MC, RC, RV, Dungey, and others have something extra that makes them champions that others lack.

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8/24/2020 6:52 PM

cable wrote:

He would still have a partial advantage, but with larocco and swink having powerfful bikes, i dont see him winning so much. look how mc did in 97 on the suzuki. he couldnt jump low as often, as he didnt have the honda power..

MC mechanic had a few screwups in 97. I was at Indy, MC is looking faster than anyone. Then he drops way back, clutch was gone. That ball bearing was missing on the clutch arm. Gainsville he forgot to mix oil with the gas. Ruined the race engine, other cylinder wasn,t much. Sounded and Looked slow, almost beat Emig tho.

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8/24/2020 7:35 PM

Dirty Points wrote: This excellent skill thread just made me recall how much of McGrath's unique skills were things he innately did for maintaining momentum through complicated sections.

Wondering... Would that skill even be a significant factor any more with so much traction and power on every bike?

I'm guessing he would still be a multi-time champion if he was in the current generation. 7 out of 8 SX titles, no.

I believe his skills and style meshed well with the evolution of motocross chassis' in the late 80's, whereas today I can't imagine someone having the same technical advantage.

Maybe a bad example but RC became even more dominant once 4 strokes came into the picture. These guys' insane level of talent really shines when they have to adapt to something new.

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8/24/2020 7:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 7:56 PM

cable wrote:

He would still have a partial advantage, but with larocco and swink having powerfful bikes, i dont see him winning so much. look how mc did in 97 on the suzuki. he couldnt jump low as often, as he didnt have the honda power..

Pfft!!! Having a complete shit mechanic and bike in 97', he still damn near won the SX Championship. It was mechanical issues and a few instances of bad luck that cost him the championship, not an underpowered bike.

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8/24/2020 8:02 PM

cable wrote:

He would still have a partial advantage, but with larocco and swink having powerfful bikes, i dont see him winning so much. look how mc did in 97 on the suzuki. he couldnt jump low as often, as he didnt have the honda power..

RACERX69 wrote:

Pfft!!! Having a complete shit mechanic and bike in 97', he still damn near won the SX Championship. It was mechanical issues and a few instances of bad luck that cost him the championship, not an underpowered bike.

Oh, No You Di'n't!
shocked
laughing

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

8/24/2020 8:06 PM

MC completely changed the way riders hit jumps and other obstacles. Riders eventually were able to copy his technique but it took time and while everyone else was learning MC's techniques, he was kicking their collective asses.

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8/24/2020 8:10 PM

RbR wrote:

MC completely changed the way riders hit jumps and other obstacles. Riders eventually were able to copy his technique but it took time and while everyone else was learning MC's techniques, he was kicking their collective asses.

BOOM!!!

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

8/24/2020 8:14 PM

The King has been informed of this thread and some of you "Nay Sayers"!
grin

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

8/24/2020 8:18 PM

bvm111 wrote: Photo

If I never saw that poor girls face again, I would not be upset.

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8/24/2020 8:25 PM

bvm111 wrote: Photo

Nellie12 wrote:

If I never saw that poor girls face again, I would not be upset.

I'll second that.
angry
laughing

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

8/24/2020 11:04 PM

bvm111 wrote: Photo

Nellie12 wrote:

If I never saw that poor girls face again, I would not be upset.

TeamGreen wrote:

I'll second that.
angry
laughing

There was a worse picture with her with the quote and I settled on this one... however, I still feel the same as you guys.about her, although I do say that at work all the time just to get a reaction!

Just though it was funny as it’s blasphemous to insinuate something such as this about MC!

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250