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12/5/2019 8:19am
12/5/2019 8:19am
Edited Date/Time
12/9/2019 11:19am
I’m sure the ultimate answer is that it’s not financially viable for manufacturers to offer different frame sizes for their 250s and 450s. But, why is that?
I know dealers aren’t selling a ton of dirt bikes in general, so they wouldn’t want to stock multiple sizes of bikes. However, it seems like manufacturers and dealers could figure out a production run based on pre-sold/deposits that would give them some protection from excess or unsold inventory.
If manufacturers did offer a size smaller or larger than their stock frame to accommodate riders on either end of the height spectrum - would it be too hard to get the same ride characteristics of their stock bike to the other sizes or would it be too expensive to develop?
Anyway, just wondering if “one size fits most” is really the answer to the question of why you can’t get a different size frames.
I know dealers aren’t selling a ton of dirt bikes in general, so they wouldn’t want to stock multiple sizes of bikes. However, it seems like manufacturers and dealers could figure out a production run based on pre-sold/deposits that would give them some protection from excess or unsold inventory.
If manufacturers did offer a size smaller or larger than their stock frame to accommodate riders on either end of the height spectrum - would it be too hard to get the same ride characteristics of their stock bike to the other sizes or would it be too expensive to develop?
Anyway, just wondering if “one size fits most” is really the answer to the question of why you can’t get a different size frames.
As a tall guy myself, I know there are a lot of us that would love a bike more suited to our height. Seems like a missed opportunity for one of the manufacturers. I'd happily give up any brand loyalty for a bike that was made for my height.
The bicycle industry seem to be able to make it financially viable.
Honestly, I don't think the frame itself makes all that much difference on dirt bike ergos. Where various components are hung on it is obviously more critical.
Go and ride an 85cc with tall bars and a tall seat and tell me its the same as riding a 250/450 sized bike.
It is different from a bicycle, where the most significant difference in frame size is actual top tube length. I don't think you actually want a different wheelbase in a fullsize dirt bike
The Shop
How cool would it be to order a bike set up out the showroom with the exact spring rate/ valving we send off to get.
Bicycles are measured more accurately now with a metric known as reach. Top tube lengths can vary wildly depending on the frame design.
As the reach increases so does the wheel base. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a longer wheel base.
I'd be happy with a longer wheel base, just as I am with my bicycle having a longer wheel base than the equivalent sized small.
You can “snowcheck” a snowmobile, and essentially order a sled with custom options that include suspension, tracks, colors, etc... The shop takes your order and your deposit and sends it to the manufacturer.
Seems like just offering a small size frame and a large size frame, then being able to order it with the valving and spring rate you want would be something that would be well received.
Just wonder why this kind of thing isn’t offered for dirtbikes.
But 125's used to have slightly smaller frames than the 250. Kind of the same thing for the 250 vs the 500 big bore bikes. They stopped doing this in the early 90's for obvious reasons.
It used to be if you lined up a 125 next to a 250 next to a 500 you could usually see the slight differences in size.
If you look at specs of the bikes from the 80's n such you would see. The 125 had a little lower seat height shorter wheel base sometimes slightly less suspension travel. It was in the 90's when the 125 and 250 would have like same seat heights started having the same subframes etc.
Building everything the same, allows the OEM to maximize economies of scale. They have more buying power with suppliers when every component in the bill of materials is exactly the same. Production and assembly is cheaper, faster, less complex in non-individualized single model scenarios.
Let's say you start introducing different size frames, wheels, and suspension settings. First, the OEM has to build or purchase the individualized components which will be procured at lower volumes and higher prices. They would need a unique weld fixture that is now either adjustable for both sizes (introduces inherent mfg delay due to changeover/setup time) or a unique fixture for XL or XS frame sizes which will be under-utilized and high cost. Suspension kits now have to be built with unique shim stacks, springs, oil &, oil level.
All of this adds extra complexity to the business. Every part has to have a BOM, an electronic routing, a take rate, and a way to mistake proof assembly so that you get the individualized parts on the right frame serial number. Assemblers have more opportunity to put on the wrong part. The supply base has to be able to ensure the individualized parts can be delivered on time when the frame is ready. All of this takes extra labor to manage which adds overhead cost.
So what would happen is not only would it cost extra to order a customized bike, all of the other expenses that come with managing a production/assembly and supply base to do so would increase overheads enough that even the "stock" bike cost would increase. Variance is an unwanted evil when it comes to production and assembly lines.
The Factory Edition from KTM/Husky or WE from Honda are the closest attempts you are ever going to see.
I.E. if you're going to make a bike semi custom for me, suspension has more impact than frame.
Beta's 125 & 200 is built on a smaller frame. Beta also offer's lowering from the distributor along with BYOB, build your own Beta customization.
the bigger question is, if you want a different size, why not cut the check and have it done on your own?
Pit Row
Reality Check - its 2019 and we cant EVEN get a grips in larger sizes. I would be happy if someone came to the table and said YES we are going to acknowledge grown men exist and make LARGE grips for large hands.
We have tiny bars and tiny grips for tiny people (children), where are my tall brothers with large hands in the moto industry.
Equal Rights, Equal Rights.
Pipes, wheels, handlebars, levers, pegs, forks, shocks, springs, tyres, hell, even your name and number on the plates!
It could be done.
There's a cutoff date to do so, but it's possible.
So to get ~80% of the way there all brands would need to do is provide multiple peg mounts and have a slightly longer swing arm option.
It would also complicate their development, testing, distribution etc.
If the business case was there, they would do it.
On a dirt bike you are changing engine mounts, shrouds, cables, chain, chain guides, seat, potentially exhaust length, electrical wiring looms and probably other stuff I haven’t thought of.
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