Posts
300
Joined
11/28/2021
Location
Paducah, KY
US
Edited Date/Time
1/28/2022 8:58am
No banter. I have always ridden RM-Z250's until a collegiate hiatus and now that I am on a YZ250 2 stroke I just don't feel the comfort level that I traditionally felt. I have about 19 hours on it now and have had some great motos but I miss the advantages I felt with a four stroke
Current mods are 9 oz. flywheel weight, Honda master, braided line, .46 kg/mm fork springs, 5.8 kg/mm shock spring. Stock tires (MX52?).
I'm about 6'3 and weigh 200-210 lb. I race 250B and 250 open (if available).
Some things I do not like about the YZ250:
-Handling. This is 85% of the problem. This bike is allergic to cornering. I swapped to 22mm offset clamps from the stock 25, and now it just wants to oversteer. I am happy with the straight line stability and the way it hooks up under power, but I dread cornering. Anticipating the responses here, I cannot seem to get the bike to sag down to 105mm. There may be some fine tuning left to do, but I am confident there is not a fix-all hidden in the clickers.
-Engine Characteristic: I feel like there is such a small window of pull power. It is always revving out, or its out of the powerband and I'm needing to clutch it hardcore. No in between. There may be a fix (pipe, gearing, etc.), but I am not really interested in continuously dumping money into a bike.
-Jetting: Boy, I hate it. This thing runs alright, but it detonates more often than I'd like. I am not interested in running special fuels. I understand that this is easily fixed, but jetting is not a set and forget subject.
-Engine braking: Especially the Suzuki's I had, it just felt like the rear wheel was suctioned to the racing surface. I like to ride with the front and for the rear end to stay put. Typically with a fairly neutral body positioning.
-Power Linearity: Now that I don't live near sand based tracks anymore, I feel this a lot. One blip of the throttle on the two stroke and the whole bike is upset. This is somewhat of a restatement of the first point, but the yz250 feels like it is always on ice skates. It's only happy on tracks with softer, loamier surfaces where it pays to keep things a little looser.
Current Ideas (not in order)
Here's where I need the help..
-Pretty much any 250f from Honda, Kawi, Suz, or GASGAS. I do tend to think I'm a bit large for a 250f these days. I got tired of having to seat bounce everything on a 250f.
-RM-Z450: Obvious bias, but one thing that discourages this is that there is consensus on three big issues: suspension is hard to set up, engine is tailored for low to mid rpm use, and the new chassis is not as stable as times past. I ride in the upper half of the rpm range and a flat engine is such a hassle. I also think this is the heftiest financial investment due to poor resale.
-KX450: Seems to do everything well, except handle. Maybe I'm just buying a more expensive continued headache.
-MC350f: This is probably the most appealing choice, but I cannot find one, nor do I know much about the austrian bikes in general. The 350's are appealing because they do not have the excessive power that the big bikes do, but still have plenty of gusto.
I generally worry that a 450 is going to be "too much". I want to be able to ride aggressively without needing to ratchet strap myself to the bike. I also worry about the unforgiving nature bikes that powerful can have. I hope some fruitful discussion will ensue. Thanks for reading my book lol.
Also, I'll come back and add this. If you have the experience to make the claim that you think I just need to man up and spend some money on suspension and jet the bike, then take some lessons, then say it. I want a solution more than a new bike chat. I can learn how to get better with the rear brake if this bike could turn a little better.
Current mods are 9 oz. flywheel weight, Honda master, braided line, .46 kg/mm fork springs, 5.8 kg/mm shock spring. Stock tires (MX52?).
I'm about 6'3 and weigh 200-210 lb. I race 250B and 250 open (if available).
Some things I do not like about the YZ250:
-Handling. This is 85% of the problem. This bike is allergic to cornering. I swapped to 22mm offset clamps from the stock 25, and now it just wants to oversteer. I am happy with the straight line stability and the way it hooks up under power, but I dread cornering. Anticipating the responses here, I cannot seem to get the bike to sag down to 105mm. There may be some fine tuning left to do, but I am confident there is not a fix-all hidden in the clickers.
-Engine Characteristic: I feel like there is such a small window of pull power. It is always revving out, or its out of the powerband and I'm needing to clutch it hardcore. No in between. There may be a fix (pipe, gearing, etc.), but I am not really interested in continuously dumping money into a bike.
-Jetting: Boy, I hate it. This thing runs alright, but it detonates more often than I'd like. I am not interested in running special fuels. I understand that this is easily fixed, but jetting is not a set and forget subject.
-Engine braking: Especially the Suzuki's I had, it just felt like the rear wheel was suctioned to the racing surface. I like to ride with the front and for the rear end to stay put. Typically with a fairly neutral body positioning.
-Power Linearity: Now that I don't live near sand based tracks anymore, I feel this a lot. One blip of the throttle on the two stroke and the whole bike is upset. This is somewhat of a restatement of the first point, but the yz250 feels like it is always on ice skates. It's only happy on tracks with softer, loamier surfaces where it pays to keep things a little looser.
Current Ideas (not in order)
Here's where I need the help..
-Pretty much any 250f from Honda, Kawi, Suz, or GASGAS. I do tend to think I'm a bit large for a 250f these days. I got tired of having to seat bounce everything on a 250f.
-RM-Z450: Obvious bias, but one thing that discourages this is that there is consensus on three big issues: suspension is hard to set up, engine is tailored for low to mid rpm use, and the new chassis is not as stable as times past. I ride in the upper half of the rpm range and a flat engine is such a hassle. I also think this is the heftiest financial investment due to poor resale.
-KX450: Seems to do everything well, except handle. Maybe I'm just buying a more expensive continued headache.
-MC350f: This is probably the most appealing choice, but I cannot find one, nor do I know much about the austrian bikes in general. The 350's are appealing because they do not have the excessive power that the big bikes do, but still have plenty of gusto.
I generally worry that a 450 is going to be "too much". I want to be able to ride aggressively without needing to ratchet strap myself to the bike. I also worry about the unforgiving nature bikes that powerful can have. I hope some fruitful discussion will ensue. Thanks for reading my book lol.
Also, I'll come back and add this. If you have the experience to make the claim that you think I just need to man up and spend some money on suspension and jet the bike, then take some lessons, then say it. I want a solution more than a new bike chat. I can learn how to get better with the rear brake if this bike could turn a little better.
I really would love to hop on about a half dozen bikes and then I could make the choice much more easily.
That said, it’s a strong motor. Not scary like the Hondas have been recently, but still strong. At your size, if you are physically strong and don’t get yourself into those “red mist” situations you should be able to keep it under control, but I wouldn’t blame you for opting for the 250f either way.
It is probably worth mentioning I have never in my life spun a single lap or even ridden a 450 around in the pits for some reason.
The Shop
I ride a 250 sx two stroke and have done so for a few years now. Jetting is not set and forget, but it isn’t that much of a hassle either IMO. I get you, I really do. You wanna spend time at the track riding, not jetting.
I’d say 350 all day long. Less tiresome than a 450, lively, fun and you can still race 450s with it without too much of a loss of power.
And you can still put a Ktm mapping switch on the Gas Gas to make use of the mapping and traction controll.
If anyone has any connections, pm me or reply here. I would like know I have the option of even getting a gasgas.
I also did consider just grabbing an RM-Z250 and throwing a pipe on it with a good map and keeping it pinned. At around 7600 dollars, there's room for that.
Good luck and happy riding!
I am a 50+ vet now with an FC450 , and a also use of a YZF250.. i honestly feel that the 250 is too much like hard work as an only bike.
I'm not worried about power. I think the YZ250 is really fast. I am more concerned with how the power translates to usability.
Since you mentioned you like to ride the bike hard, I'd aim you toward a 250F. You said you had to seat bounce a lot of stuff; my guess is that your issue was being down on power with the Suzuki. A newer bike from a brand with more power might be the ticket. Look at Yamaha, Honda or GasGas/Husqvarna/KTM.
Ktm 250sxf
Yamaha yz250f
The 450’s are great if you had been riding them from day 1……20 years ago. If not…..the power is tough to deal with (this is the feedback I’ve gotten from people with your similar concerns). Personally…..I need one of each to match the track I want to ride.
Pit Row
That said I have a XC tpi bike now and love it also. Wanted to try and build one bad but would love to have another 350 and will have another one someday when I have the money.
if you go a 450 the penalty is heavier inertia but lots of power.
a 350 is more like a hopped up 450. i've recently ridden an 11 rmz450, 17 fc350 and 16 ktm250sxf. the 350 was the bees nees and im looking for one in any color (orange white or red) at this point
if you stick it out with the yz250 here are some thoughts
Some things I do not like about the YZ250:
-Handling. This is 85% of the problem. This bike is allergic to cornering. I swapped to 22mm offset clamps from the stock 25, and now it just wants to oversteer. I am happy with the straight line stability and the way it hooks up under power, but I dread cornering. Anticipating the responses here, I cannot seem to get the bike to sag down to 105mm. There may be some fine tuning left to do, but I am confident there is not a fix-all hidden in the clickers.
I had an 03 and 17 both had similiar issues but it didnt want to lean on corner entry, so i changed to a taller bar that gave me more leverage but yours seems to have an issue coming out of the corner.
if you keep the 22mm, try drop the fork in the clamp, also try slowing down the rebound on the shock.
-Engine Characteristic: I feel like there is such a small window of pull power. It is always revving out, or its out of the powerband and I'm needing to clutch it hardcore. No in between. There may be a fix (pipe, gearing, etc.), but I am not really interested in continuously dumping money into a bike.
add a vforce reed block (or boyesen) and fmf or pc pipe combo with a standard length silencer. these will beef the middle a bit and give a bit more top end
-Jetting: Boy, I hate it. This thing runs alright, but it detonates more often than I'd like. I am not interested in running special fuels. I understand that this is easily fixed, but jetting is not a set and forget subject.
you can have the head recut for pump fuel or run 50/50 leaded fuel. both of these will eliminate this issue
-Engine braking: Especially the Suzuki's I had, it just felt like the rear wheel was suctioned to the racing surface. I like to ride with the front and for the rear end to stay put. Typically with a fairly neutral body positioning.
welcome to two strokes, you steer from the rear
-Power Linearity: Now that I don't live near sand based tracks anymore, I feel this a lot. One blip of the throttle on the two stroke and the whole bike is upset. This is somewhat of a restatement of the first point, but the yz250 feels like it is always on ice skates. It's only happy on tracks with softer, loamier surfaces where it pays to keep things a little looser.
the two stroke engine revs quicker than a 4 stroke and doesnt put its torque down as well, hence why the racing world went away from them. you have to work on your throttle control
I may try a yz250f who knows.
I’m mostly afraid of losing 8 horsepower and wanting it back forever..
I think this is honestly where me and the two stroke part ways when it comes to getting faster. That just may be the way the cookie crumbles. Blessed are we to ride in a time with options to let us feel this way!
“Throttle control”
Totally agree. I’ve actually been working really hard at using the clutch in conjunction with a focused right wrist to emulate a 4 stroke roll on. I’ve gotten really good at it I think, but I don’t think it’s quite possible to bridge the gap all the way. What do you think?
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response too. I appreciate it.
Are you here full time? visiting?
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