Window’d KTM engine.

10/26/2017 9:36am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2017 11:02am
mx317 wrote:
I would quit when you are not too far behind. You lost all credibility with your 80 hour 250F oil change interval.
I love this topic. Reminds me of working with kids/parents.

99% of parents out there have zero formal training on communication & child development. They literally have no clue how to raise a kid and no, y'all dont just "figure it out" over time. Instead rather you try the same things over and over and then just blame hormones when it all finally blows up thru the teenage years.

Occasionally you would have a parent that sits down with a professional child worker and they would ask, "how are you able to get so much more out of my child? He is so defiant at home yet he is so respectful to you? How do you make him/her respect you & listen?"

And for a second there you actually get fooled into thinking they are genuinely seeking advice on how to be a better parent. So you tell them it's not the kid (or bike), it's YOU. You have to change the way you communicate & handle your emotions (change the way you ride your 250F).

It's at that very moment the switch flips and the parent becomes irrate. DONT YOU TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY FUCKING CHILD.

But wait, you just asked a professional how they get results? No. The myopic parent didnt. They were just looking for another parent to bitch too that would also bitch. Get parents together and listen to them. All they do is bitch about the troubles with their kids like some sort of shitty parenting support group (ie: I sucked a valve. Bad luck. Oh you too? Damn fourstrokes). They dont want solutions, they want to be around other people that also think it's the kids that are out of control.

Y'all can keep bkaming the kids/bikes all you want. But it aint them, it's you.

So I ask again, what do you think the average lifespan of a 250F's engine is w/o a oil change during the R&D department's endurance testing?
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T-Fish
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10/26/2017 9:38am
A lot of the parts on KTMs are being made in India now. Better metallurgy? Hardly. A buddy of mine bought his son a KTM 125...
A lot of the parts on KTMs are being made in India now. Better metallurgy? Hardly. A buddy of mine bought his son a KTM 125, and the first day they rode it, beginner 14 year old mind you, the frame rails on the cradle under engine were smashed flat. The kid never bottomed out hard. These rails were like flat as a piece of paper. The dealer said a few ktms have done This
Yeah, and Jenna Jameson is still a virgin after all of her films.
10/26/2017 9:53am
mx317 wrote:
I would quit when you are not too far behind. You lost all credibility with your 80 hour 250F oil change interval.
I love this topic. Reminds me of working with kids/parents. 99% of parents out there have zero formal training on communication & child development. They literally...
I love this topic. Reminds me of working with kids/parents.

99% of parents out there have zero formal training on communication & child development. They literally have no clue how to raise a kid and no, y'all dont just "figure it out" over time. Instead rather you try the same things over and over and then just blame hormones when it all finally blows up thru the teenage years.

Occasionally you would have a parent that sits down with a professional child worker and they would ask, "how are you able to get so much more out of my child? He is so defiant at home yet he is so respectful to you? How do you make him/her respect you & listen?"

And for a second there you actually get fooled into thinking they are genuinely seeking advice on how to be a better parent. So you tell them it's not the kid (or bike), it's YOU. You have to change the way you communicate & handle your emotions (change the way you ride your 250F).

It's at that very moment the switch flips and the parent becomes irrate. DONT YOU TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY FUCKING CHILD.

But wait, you just asked a professional how they get results? No. The myopic parent didnt. They were just looking for another parent to bitch too that would also bitch. Get parents together and listen to them. All they do is bitch about the troubles with their kids like some sort of shitty parenting support group (ie: I sucked a valve. Bad luck. Oh you too? Damn fourstrokes). They dont want solutions, they want to be around other people that also think it's the kids that are out of control.

Y'all can keep bkaming the kids/bikes all you want. But it aint them, it's you.

So I ask again, what do you think the average lifespan of a 250F's engine is w/o a oil change during the R&D department's endurance testing?
blablablabla...... yes, you can run a 250F for a long time with the same oil but it causes excessive wear to the engine parts. The oil filter can only take a certain amount of stuff before it's gonna restrict your oil flow. And also If the metal shavings and other dirty stuff keeps floating around in your engine it will cause excessive wear to pretty much every part. Gears/piston/cylinder. Your engine will probably run for a pretty long time but after that all the parts will be worn out.
10/26/2017 10:02am
blablablabla...... yes, you can run a 250F for a long time with the same oil but it causes excessive wear to the engine parts. The oil...
blablablabla...... yes, you can run a 250F for a long time with the same oil but it causes excessive wear to the engine parts. The oil filter can only take a certain amount of stuff before it's gonna restrict your oil flow. And also If the metal shavings and other dirty stuff keeps floating around in your engine it will cause excessive wear to pretty much every part. Gears/piston/cylinder. Your engine will probably run for a pretty long time but after that all the parts will be worn out.
And do you think that heavy wear is simply a function of the engine running? It's not. How you treat the motor with your right wrist goes a long ways towards extending the life of the oil and internal parts. As does properly warming up the bike, which most dont do.

Metal shavings during the break-in phase are normal. Excessive metal shavings after break-in means you're doing something wrong. It's avoidable.

The Shop

Bruneval
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10/26/2017 10:37am
Trevor91 wrote:
125 it looks? be careful we have a 17 and the transmissions seem to have problems. Ours had around 35 hours on it and blew up...
125 it looks? be careful we have a 17 and the transmissions seem to have problems. Ours had around 35 hours on it and blew up now its is being serviced by a local shop now all under warranty..
It's an '18 150 - I wanted the extra power or I would have picked a Husky as I really like the white over the orange. That said, I'll see what I can do with the blue TLD plastic kit when I can get my hands on one.

Thanks for the flag. I build my own motors so any problems I will probably just correct myself, but for the once a month I will use this thing, I'm not expecting too much hassle.
kaptkaos
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10/26/2017 10:49am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2017 10:50am
Looks like something wanted out really bad...

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mxtech1
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10/26/2017 2:03pm
Can't decide if jabroni is a genius or a moron....

I understand his perspective, but it's on the extreme end of the spectrum
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bobojim
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10/26/2017 2:57pm
Forty wrote:
I've 63 hours on my 10 hour piston. I'll switch it out this winter but only as a maintenance item. It runs strong.
Suggest you put a 40 hr piston in this time Tongue
erik_94COBRA
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10/26/2017 3:42pm
mx317 wrote:
I would quit when you are not too far behind. You lost all credibility with your 80 hour 250F oil change interval.
I love this topic. Reminds me of working with kids/parents. 99% of parents out there have zero formal training on communication & child development. They literally...
I love this topic. Reminds me of working with kids/parents.

99% of parents out there have zero formal training on communication & child development. They literally have no clue how to raise a kid and no, y'all dont just "figure it out" over time. Instead rather you try the same things over and over and then just blame hormones when it all finally blows up thru the teenage years.

Occasionally you would have a parent that sits down with a professional child worker and they would ask, "how are you able to get so much more out of my child? He is so defiant at home yet he is so respectful to you? How do you make him/her respect you & listen?"

And for a second there you actually get fooled into thinking they are genuinely seeking advice on how to be a better parent. So you tell them it's not the kid (or bike), it's YOU. You have to change the way you communicate & handle your emotions (change the way you ride your 250F).

It's at that very moment the switch flips and the parent becomes irrate. DONT YOU TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY FUCKING CHILD.

But wait, you just asked a professional how they get results? No. The myopic parent didnt. They were just looking for another parent to bitch too that would also bitch. Get parents together and listen to them. All they do is bitch about the troubles with their kids like some sort of shitty parenting support group (ie: I sucked a valve. Bad luck. Oh you too? Damn fourstrokes). They dont want solutions, they want to be around other people that also think it's the kids that are out of control.

Y'all can keep bkaming the kids/bikes all you want. But it aint them, it's you.

So I ask again, what do you think the average lifespan of a 250F's engine is w/o a oil change during the R&D department's endurance testing?
Two serious questions:
What do you tell a kid who admits to not liking certain subjects in school and then procrastinates to the point of impacting grades negatively?

Can you further detail the reliability testing you mentioned, including riding type, engine oil, etc.?
10/26/2017 3:58pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Can't decide if jabroni is a genius or a moron....

I understand his perspective, but it's on the extreme end of the spectrum
I can totally live with your response. Every implication of it.
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Marty1028
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10/26/2017 3:59pm
My 250 has 120hrs on it, i tore it down to look at the valves and piston, the piston with all the carbon cleaned off looked 100% brand new, so i slapped some rings on it and put the sucker back in. Race every local xc race now and again and piss around out in the woods at home. but i dont rev my 250 to the moon and back either.
Marty1028
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10/26/2017 4:00pm
Marty1028 wrote:
My 250 has 120hrs on it, i tore it down to look at the valves and piston, the piston with all the carbon cleaned off looked...
My 250 has 120hrs on it, i tore it down to look at the valves and piston, the piston with all the carbon cleaned off looked 100% brand new, so i slapped some rings on it and put the sucker back in. Race every local xc race now and again and piss around out in the woods at home. but i dont rev my 250 to the moon and back either.
I guess Bel Ray Ester Blend Synthetic is a wonderful thing.
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10/26/2017 4:09pm
Engineers dont write the manuals. Bean counters worried about warranty issues do. You can easily get 80 hours out of a 250F before a oil change...
Engineers dont write the manuals. Bean counters worried about warranty issues do.

You can easily get 80 hours out of a 250F before a oil change. The manual wont tell you that. But it's true.

I'll agree with you on one thing, riders are notorious for over reving fourstrokes. Especially on the starting line. For no reason since everything is EFI.

You'd be surprised at how long a race team could get out of a motor if they werent under pressure to use all of their budget to ensure it wasnt shrunk the next year. Ive know of teams that have literally built motors, put them on the dyno, and rev'd them until the blew up. Day after day. Just to use up budget at the end of the season.
mx317 wrote:
80 hours before an oil change on a 250F? What are you smoking?
ive done an 80 hr oil change, it came out not that dirty, it just how you ride. Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit
10/26/2017 4:25pm
Two serious questions: What do you tell a kid who admits to not liking certain subjects in school and then procrastinates to the point of impacting...
Two serious questions:
What do you tell a kid who admits to not liking certain subjects in school and then procrastinates to the point of impacting grades negatively?

Can you further detail the reliability testing you mentioned, including riding type, engine oil, etc.?
Question 1:

There are LOTS of things kids dont like. Whether they listen to your direction or not is more a function of respect. If they respect you, they listen.

Getting kids to respect you so that you can get them to do things they hate requires you having your shit together. Typically by the time a kid is in high school, they've gone thru several phases of being your kid.

- Initially they listened to you because they didnt know better
- Then their brain started to develop further and they began to quietly question if you knew what the fuck you were doing
- Then they realize the emperor has no clothes and they are convinced you dont know what the fuck you are doing

Putting the toothpaste back in the tube is not impossible. But goddamn is it hard because it requires YOU the hardened-in-your-ways adult to change YOUR behaviour to get the reactions from your surroundings that you seek. Everything the kid does and how they react to you is 100% in YOUR control. Kids have minds of their own but above all, they want to feel safe. If you got your shit together, they feel safe, they listen. That goes for humans in general. Im talking about things on a primal level. This is 90% subconscious.

As for your kid's schoolwork issue....

Are you asking the kid to work harder at his/her life than you work in your own? What sort of silent example are you setting?

Are you prepared to take away privileges to provide the incentive to motivate the kid? Are you consistent in your emotions AND your discipline? If you find yourself ever getting upset when disciplining your kid, you're showing a lack of control. It's a instant way to get kids to subconsciously know that you're not leadership material. They want to follow, but discipline must be emotionless.

Parents often dont do enough with their kids. And those that do, arent prepared to take those good times away in the event that the kid isnt "acting right". And usually when they do hand down discipline, they do it wrong and dont stick to it. Consistency is so damn important. Children respect stability above almost anything else. It's totally subconscious.

Are you 100% sure the issue with these school subjects is simply motivation? Often time people mask their insecurities. Kids that struggle with a subject will claim they dont like it and dont want to do it. The reality is that they just may need some extra tutoring.

Parenting is no different than coaching. Go watch a GOOD coach at work. Watch that coach yell and scream at players. Watch him get them to run sprints until they almost puke. But look closely. No matter how loud, are they ever actually angry? No. They arent. When that coach is handing out sprints, look at how hard the players run despite the pain. Players actually like loud coaches. It shows enthusiasm. The difference tho between a coach that screams out of anger and one that screams out of enthusiasm is so subtle. But the players see right through it. Angry coaches lose their player's respect quickly. Resentment sets in. And eventually enthusiasm & effort from the players wains. It's no different than parenting.

(disclaimer: being a loud coach isnt necessary. There are plenty of quiet coaches that get effort from their players. It's all about being genuine. Be the best you, you can be. Players respect what is genuine.)

Question 2:

- Motocross Tracks
- Former National Pro (ridden harder than I'd advise but that only goes to prove how reliable a bike can be)
- OEM oil
- Ride until something breaks, then go turn the bike in and get another, repeat, year round

Im unaware if there is a healthy break-in phase or if the rider just starts hammering on the bike from hour one. But naturally, a healthy & safe break-in procedure only helps things so I strongly advise it.

I was told not to change my oil any more frequent than at 50 hours and I'd be perfectly within safe thresholds. Before that conversation, I was changing it every 7.5 just like every other dope. I was as skeptical as anyone else here in this thread but I wasnt dumb enough to argue with an R&D engineer and it made sense when he explained why the manual recommends what it does. Engineers didnt write it.
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10/26/2017 4:27pm
Marty1028 wrote:
ive done an 80 hr oil change, it came out not that dirty, it just how you ride. Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit
Careful bro. You just told the world that the planet isnt flat.
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BobPA
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10/26/2017 4:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2017 4:50pm
Marty1028 wrote:
ive done an 80 hr oil change, it came out not that dirty, it just how you ride. Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit
Careful bro. You just told the world that the planet isnt flat.
Sounds like you are posting on two different accounts....

"Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit" equates to being a really really slow squid. 250fs need to be revved. How can you not grasp that concept.
10/26/2017 4:55pm
PRM31 wrote:
I don't understand why people think KTM should take care of it after 43 hours. That's a lot of riding. Any bike can let go, it...
I don't understand why people think KTM should take care of it after 43 hours. That's a lot of riding. Any bike can let go, it just costs a lot more to put a 4T back together.
Yep. My uncles husky 450 grenaded with 3.2 hours. But they took care of it. At 43....wouldn’t expect to get any help.
Spizzy
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10/26/2017 7:17pm
80 hours in a wet clutch, constant mesh transmission, that is also lubricating the rest of the motor is ridiculous. did these "R&D engineers" also tell you not to lube the chain or do any other type of maintenance?
Marty1028
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10/27/2017 5:18am
Marty1028 wrote:
ive done an 80 hr oil change, it came out not that dirty, it just how you ride. Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit
Careful bro. You just told the world that the planet isnt flat.
BobPA wrote:
Sounds like you are posting on two different accounts.... "Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit" equates to being a really really slow squid. 250fs...
Sounds like you are posting on two different accounts....

"Riding hard and over revving equals breaking shit" equates to being a really really slow squid. 250fs need to be revved. How can you not grasp that concept.
no im not him, but i race XC i dont need the revs, the reason i ride a 250f is for the torque, if i wanted revs i would of bought a yz250
mxtech1
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10/27/2017 5:35am
mxtech1 wrote:
Can't decide if jabroni is a genius or a moron....

I understand his perspective, but it's on the extreme end of the spectrum
I can totally live with your response. Every implication of it.
I am an Engineer by trade and an obsessive hobbyist at home.

My logic and thought process is very similar to yours.
BobPA
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10/27/2017 6:36am
Marty1028 wrote:
no im not him, but i race XC i dont need the revs, the reason i ride a 250f is for the torque, if i wanted...
no im not him, but i race XC i dont need the revs, the reason i ride a 250f is for the torque, if i wanted revs i would of bought a yz250
Lol
OldYZRider1
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10/27/2017 8:11am
Years ago I read an SAE paper from the mid 1970's by a consulting engineer to Lincoln Motors who did testing with a sealed engine that ran for 5 years and 100,00 mi without any oil changes. Based on the results of his testing he recommended factory filling engines with synthetic oil (I don't remember the base), sealing them up and eliminating customer oil changes for the life of the car.

Granted its a bit different with most dirt bike engines that use rolling bearings throughout and lubricate the transmission with one oil supply. In this situation there's a lot of metal wear particles that will contaminate the oil worse than a plain bearing automotive engine would. However it does speak to the quality of synthetic oils and I'd guess an engine that separates the transmission oil from the crankshaft/cams (like some Honda's) could run an extended oil change interval for the engine.
1
10/27/2017 10:18am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2017 10:19am
mxtech1 wrote:
Can't decide if jabroni is a genius or a moron....

I understand his perspective, but it's on the extreme end of the spectrum
I can totally live with your response. Every implication of it.
mxtech1 wrote:
I am an Engineer by trade and an obsessive hobbyist at home.

My logic and thought process is very similar to yours.
So then while watching this thread unfold you know my pain. Im sure in many walks of life you get wild pushback for what appears to be logical stances from your viewpoint. In a sea of morons, the mob will try to convince the few smart people that they are crazy.
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Monk
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10/27/2017 1:11pm
I can totally live with your response. Every implication of it.
mxtech1 wrote:
I am an Engineer by trade and an obsessive hobbyist at home.

My logic and thought process is very similar to yours.
So then while watching this thread unfold you know my pain. Im sure in many walks of life you get wild pushback for what appears to...
So then while watching this thread unfold you know my pain. Im sure in many walks of life you get wild pushback for what appears to be logical stances from your viewpoint. In a sea of morons, the mob will try to convince the few smart people that they are crazy.
I just can't buy a 80hr oil change interval... But than again I put stupid hours on motors so what would I know
10/27/2017 1:27pm
Monk wrote:
I just can't buy a 80hr oil change interval... But than again I put stupid hours on motors so what would I know
Hey, 1 in 5 Americans still believe the sun orbits the earth.

It's much easier to fool people than convince them they have been lied too.

Just look at how many people still change their car's oil every 3k miles. Idiots. 10-15k is totally acceptable even for the average shitty driver. So imagine how long engine oil life lasts for the guy who properly warms up his car EVERY time throughout the life of the vehicle.

I think blow-by on a dirtbike does more to shorten oil lifespan than actual ride time.
sgrimmxdad
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10/27/2017 1:59pm
10-15k oil changes are acceptable? I have been in the car business my entire life. Most cars that I have seen with 250k PLUS miles have had the oil changed regularly at intervals around 3k miles. I have seen many cars that needed engine work due to a simple to lack of oil changes with 100k miles. Ever pulled a plug and have goo come out? I would go by the suggested intervals in the service manual. I have seen our mercedes go 8k before calling for a change. That is as far as I have ever seen a computer oil life monitor go....
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seth505
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10/27/2017 3:22pm
sgrimmxdad wrote:
10-15k oil changes are acceptable? I have been in the car business my entire life. Most cars that I have seen with 250k PLUS miles have...
10-15k oil changes are acceptable? I have been in the car business my entire life. Most cars that I have seen with 250k PLUS miles have had the oil changed regularly at intervals around 3k miles. I have seen many cars that needed engine work due to a simple to lack of oil changes with 100k miles. Ever pulled a plug and have goo come out? I would go by the suggested intervals in the service manual. I have seen our mercedes go 8k before calling for a change. That is as far as I have ever seen a computer oil life monitor go....
Amsoil synthetic and oil filter 15,000 mile intervals.
OldYZRider1
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10/27/2017 3:23pm
sgrimmxdad wrote:
10-15k oil changes are acceptable? I have been in the car business my entire life. Most cars that I have seen with 250k PLUS miles have...
10-15k oil changes are acceptable? I have been in the car business my entire life. Most cars that I have seen with 250k PLUS miles have had the oil changed regularly at intervals around 3k miles. I have seen many cars that needed engine work due to a simple to lack of oil changes with 100k miles. Ever pulled a plug and have goo come out? I would go by the suggested intervals in the service manual. I have seen our mercedes go 8k before calling for a change. That is as far as I have ever seen a computer oil life monitor go....
The kind of oil, synthetic or straight petroleum; makes a big difference. I go about 10k miles on our pickups in my construction business which works well as we basically do an oil change once a year during our downtime in the winter months. We use 10W30 Mobil 1 full synthetic with large capacity oil filters in our fleet of trucks which are mainly gas engines. We've been doing this for the last twenty years. We had one Dodge 3/4 T that cracked a head with 100k on it. The dealer tore it down and said everything looked almost like new. I really don't look to replace a truck anymore till it's getting 200k miles on it.
BobPA
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10/27/2017 4:15pm
Hey, 1 in 5 Americans still believe the sun orbits the earth. It's much easier to fool people than convince them they have been lied too...
Hey, 1 in 5 Americans still believe the sun orbits the earth.

It's much easier to fool people than convince them they have been lied too.

Just look at how many people still change their car's oil every 3k miles. Idiots. 10-15k is totally acceptable even for the average shitty driver. So imagine how long engine oil life lasts for the guy who properly warms up his car EVERY time throughout the life of the vehicle.

I think blow-by on a dirtbike does more to shorten oil lifespan than actual ride time.
The 10k-15k mileage thing I will stand by you 100%. My mom has 2008 Saab 9-3 turbo, has 243k on the clock. Oil changes every 12k wth Mobil 1. Still runs like the day is was new.

But, calling yourself smart because you have a different opinion than the group is just laughable.

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