Will/should the Japanese ever enter the 2t enduro market?

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9/4/2018 6:48 PM

I know MX/SX is what is popular here but man, there are a ton of 2 strokes being sold in Europe. At extreme events alone there are over 1800 entries at Erzberg, 1000 at 111 Megawatt and a ton at Romaniacs. Mainly 300cc 2 strokes.

And that's not counting the casual trail rider sales. Of course there's a chance they are all the same people but I kinda doubt it.

I can't help but think that someone one like Honda or especially Yamaha wouldn't like to dip into that market. At least in Europe at least. I know Honda swore off the two stroke but you can't tell me that if one of the big four made a competitive 300cc two stroke that people, especially in Europe, wouldn't look there way.

I may be way off but just wanted to see what others thought. I'd love to see the numbers of say Yamaha YZ450s sold worldwide in comparison to say KTM EXC/XC-W 300s worldwide.

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9/4/2018 6:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/4/2018 6:53 PM

My yz250x is one of the most predictable enduro bikes I've had.

My ktm was nice, light and nimble for trails but the Yamaha's suspension and all round package are perfect for a kick and go ride.

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9/4/2018 6:55 PM

I doubt it. If I was a betting man, I’d guess we’ll see electric bikes out of the Japanese, next.

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9/4/2018 6:56 PM

tobz wrote:

My yz250x is one of the most predictable enduro bikes I've had.

My ktm was nice, light and nimble for trails but the Yamaha's ...more

Kick? Blasphemy.

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9/4/2018 7:00 PM

quadzrulebro wrote:

I doubt it. If I was a betting man, I’d guess we’ll see electric bikes out of the Japanese, next.

Ktm/Husky will be there first to push the envelope and compete with Alta. Then the Japanese may go that way.

You would just think they would look at all those 300s being sold and want some of that market.

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9/4/2018 7:24 PM

ive been heavily involved in 2 areas where there is a big 3 , 4 of japanese manus. for 40 and 35 years, bought and sold lots, worked in both industries at various levels..

so im hardly poorly informed as some bozos here think.

the 2 groups basically run with their heads in the sand as far as what western consumers want, they offer products but products that are either long in the tooth or arent as good as what comes out of europe or the usa....

thats not to say they are bad just not the best anymore...and their handling of customer issues and problems is quite terrible, seems they frankly dont give a flying fck what we think..

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9/4/2018 7:37 PM

quadzrulebro wrote:

I doubt it. If I was a betting man, I’d guess we’ll see electric bikes out of the Japanese, next.

flatout111 wrote:

Ktm/Husky will be there first to push the envelope and compete with Alta. Then the Japanese may go that way.

You would just ...more

Yamaha has at least 3 model electric bikes they are working on and I believe a street bike also. I think Honda has something in the works, but not sure about Kawi or Suzuki.


I would also put my money on Yamaha coming out with a 300. The YZ250X was a good start.

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9/5/2018 4:51 AM

Doddy wrote:

Yamaha has at least 3 model electric bikes they are working on and I believe a street bike also. I think Honda has something ...more

Yamaha hasn't done anything of substance to their 2-strokes in over a decade... I wouldn't hold your breath.

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9/5/2018 5:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/5/2018 5:11 AM

I watch/follow every hard enduro from Hell's Gate to the WESS events to Sea To Sky. These events allow entries of not only the pros but hundreds to thousands of amateurs. And just watch Erzberg or 111 Mega Watt. There are a ton of two stroke 250s and esp 300s and it's just weird to think that the biggest bike manufacturers in the world are non existent in that market.

But as someone said, they kinda got their own ways and seem a bit oblivious to consumers at times.

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9/5/2018 5:18 AM

I think the YZ-X bikes are all were gonna see two stroke wise from the Japanese. I dont think it would really make sense for honda, kawi etc. to start making 2 stroke trail/enduro bikes, yamaha and the europeans pretty much have that market covered and I doubt they would want to take sales away from their 4 stroke trail bikes that people are buying the shit out of.

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I'm the dude, man.

9/5/2018 8:42 AM

flatout111 wrote:

Ktm/Husky will be there first to push the envelope and compete with Alta. Then the Japanese may go that way.

You would just ...more

Doddy wrote:

Yamaha has at least 3 model electric bikes they are working on and I believe a street bike also. I think Honda has something ...more

navalseabee wrote:

Yamaha hasn't done anything of substance to their 2-strokes in over a decade... I wouldn't hold your breath.

No, but they did come out with a completely brand new 65 that everyone said wouldn't happen. I am not holding my breath, but I wouldn't rule it out one bit.

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9/5/2018 8:51 AM

Photo

Kawasaki should bring this back. Fun, easy to ride, easy to work on and tons o' fun. Just the thing for weekend fun-seekers, beginners and not-too-serious enduro riders.
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9/5/2018 8:52 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/5/2018 8:54 AM

Funny thing is, growing up trail and enduro always seemed like the market for 4 strokes and 2 strokes were more aggressive stuff (like SX).

In both cases, it seems that an electric bike could be "tuned" to be the best option. As battery weights continue to come down and life continues to increase, it only makes sense we will see more and more electric stuff.

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9/5/2018 8:56 AM

Why would they? They all have 4 stroke enduro bikes.

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9/5/2018 8:57 AM

Maybe too late.. I do think they missed a big opportunity.. The eletric market will be mixing up, I would say they would come out with an electric before investing back into 2 strokes.

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9/5/2018 8:57 AM

Yamaha maybe, but the other 3 not. Honda won‘t ever produce another two stroke. Kawasaki dropped the F from their model names this year, which says it all. And Suzuki doesn‘t even do proper developement on their four-strokes.
I think too that electric dirt bikes are the next really new bikes coming from Japan, with Yamaha and Honda first.

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9/5/2018 9:02 AM

Bigfoot wrote: Photo

Kawasaki should bring this back. Fun, easy to ride, easy to work on and tons o' fun. Just the thing for weekend fun-seekers, ...more

Kawi is probably my fourth favorite brand, but I would be so down with this!

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9/5/2018 9:14 AM

Bigfoot wrote: Photo

Kawasaki should bring this back. Fun, easy to ride, easy to work on and tons o' fun. Just the thing for weekend fun-seekers, ...more
w00t That‘s looks like so much fun!
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9/5/2018 9:25 AM

Bigfoot wrote: Photo

Kawasaki should bring this back. Fun, easy to ride, easy to work on and tons o' fun. Just the thing for weekend fun-seekers, ...more
#434 wrote: w00t That‘s looks like so much fun!

They are!

Last October I picked up a true "barn find" 1987 model. It had the original tires! I rode it last winter and spring on the 1000 or so acres of BLM land behind my house. And over the past few months that's it's been too damn hot to ride here in Southern, Utah, I've gone all through it; new tires & tubes, new piston & rings (bore looked great!), new rear brake shoes (whoever owned it seemingly never used the front brake!), new fork boots, new chain, new bigger footpegs, new fork oil, new Boyesen Reeds. I've given it a thorough cleaning, wire-brushed most of the oxidized fasteners and replaced some too and touched up the paint.

One more month and it will be riding weather here, so I'm going to use that time to finish installing a Tusk Dual Sport Light kit...yup, it'll have turn signals, brake light, horn AND a license plate before I next ride it so that I can buzz over to the rest of the 1000's of acres of BLM land around here.

Photoo

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9/5/2018 9:37 AM

Man, a little 250 two-stroke KDX would be awesome.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

9/5/2018 10:27 AM

NorCal 50+ wrote:

Man, a little 250 two-stroke KDX would be awesome.

It would. I would argue the manufacturers are all dropping the ball in not producing mild, simple, bikes for off road use. Not necessarily two strokes like a KDX but also Honda and the stupidity of dropping the XR250 and 400.

Then again, Yamaha COULD clean up in the 2 stroke market if they wanted. Just drop the price on that YZ250 that has barely changed in a decade, to reflect the paid for tooling and R&D, and watch as they gobble up market share from KTM/Husky.

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9/5/2018 10:43 AM

NorCal 50+ wrote:

Man, a little 250 two-stroke KDX would be awesome.

ACBraap wrote:

It would. I would argue the manufacturers are all dropping the ball in not producing mild, simple, bikes for off road use. Not ...more

doubt yamaha is going to gobble up ktm/husky's market anytime soon, the YZ is the simple, reliable off roader and ktm/husky sell the fancy, trick off roaders. People who want bling go for the euro bikes and people who want a super reliable get the job done bike go for the yz.

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I'm the dude, man.

9/5/2018 10:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/5/2018 11:00 AM

I don't see it at this point in the game. The business model doesn't support it. Only enthusiasts running companies make something like this happen, not boardroom guys. The market and demographics are shrinking, e-bikes are a reality now and they will likely come next, Manufacturer's don't want to invest for a bigger piece of a shrinking pie.

Be glad for what we do have, Yamaha, KTM, Husky, Beta, Sherco, Gas Gas and TM all continue to bring new 2t models to the market.

What the Japanese and (Austria) bring to the market is overproduction resulting in fire sale prices and ruining the dealer's profitability and the used bike market. That is a good thing for many, pushing the used bike market to even greater opportunities in 2t Enduro's.

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9/5/2018 12:44 PM

kb228 wrote:

Why would they? They all have 4 stroke enduro bikes.

But very few people in Europe buy four stroke bikes. Again, I'm talking about the European market where you see thousands of two stroke 300 machines.

But as stated, I'm glad we have what we have as I think it is superior machinery. Just curious why they ignore that market.

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