Posts
316
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Scotts Valley, CA
US
Edited Date/Time
4/27/2022 12:49pm
This is kind of a fill me in on the history here question. I stopped riding around 2009 and am back now as part of the covid outdoor recreation resurgence.
I come back to find so much momentum going towards KTM & Friends and I'm happy to see it, hell I always sort of wanted a KTM back in the day even though my friends insisted they were a joke! I'm so glad to come back and find not only did they keep two strokes alive, they are thriving.
However, despite the fact that I'm nothing but a weekend putter who won't ever know the difference, I'm having trouble getting excited about buying anything with this hair brained WP stuff up front. Air forks? Split damping? Cone valves?
It almost seems like they're dancing around something below the surface, do Showa and KYB control some kind of patents on shim stacks or there actually real shortcomings to shim valving? WP claims bent shims are a menace, personally I never heard of it. Does that really happen?
Forks just seem like one of those end of the road technologies to me, like the swingarm, we've found it, there is no further reinventing of the wheel to be done. Am I wrong or is WP wrong or is there more to it like patent control?
I come back to find so much momentum going towards KTM & Friends and I'm happy to see it, hell I always sort of wanted a KTM back in the day even though my friends insisted they were a joke! I'm so glad to come back and find not only did they keep two strokes alive, they are thriving.
However, despite the fact that I'm nothing but a weekend putter who won't ever know the difference, I'm having trouble getting excited about buying anything with this hair brained WP stuff up front. Air forks? Split damping? Cone valves?
It almost seems like they're dancing around something below the surface, do Showa and KYB control some kind of patents on shim stacks or there actually real shortcomings to shim valving? WP claims bent shims are a menace, personally I never heard of it. Does that really happen?
Forks just seem like one of those end of the road technologies to me, like the swingarm, we've found it, there is no further reinventing of the wheel to be done. Am I wrong or is WP wrong or is there more to it like patent control?
I understand regular riders aren't pros, but one of the coolest parts of the sport to me is the proximity of the stock bikes to the factory bikes. Obviously they are on a different level of setup, tuning, refinement, etc. but just the fact that their bikes are generally based on all of the same components and design is something that seems special to me. Completely different from things like cars where you can never even dream of having a machine that that even resembles those at the pinnacle of the sport.
It's just unsatisfying to think that you're getting this inferior design when the Japanese bikes are still offering something that is demonstrably the superior technology.
This is not a new or “hair brained” idea.
I’ve been lucky enough to spend some time with the WP technicians, and they are doing a lot of research into how to make the motorcycle more comfortable so racers can go faster over tougher terrain, using multiple technologies.
Yes the outer shims in the stack do bend.
The Shop
Professional racing is more to do with time at the test track and chassis setup than anything IMO.
I've liked all air forks I've ridden, and IMO the WP air fork has evolved really well in the last 5 or 6 years it's been around
People here said it was fine, and although I'd disliked air forks on mountain bikes and air suspension on cars previously, I still went Husqvarna and I cannot fault it.
Stock comfort clicker settings from the manual (they expect riders to be fast), Race Tech calculator for air pressure for my weight (minus a few psi, was a little stiff) and I am WAY too slow to pick fault with them after such a long layup.
It's all good and there are tonnes of avenues to upgrade if/when you get back to being legit fast and not liking them.
Isn't the fact that them being just as good as a 15 year old product is considered an accomplishment evidence that they're not a good technology in the first place? "We've reinvented the wheel and after years of development we are proud to say it's almost as good as the wheel, you can barely tell the difference!"
Most of us remember some of the medieval torture devices the big four gave us over the years to pass as suspension. Yep, even Kayaba and Showa messed up the settings and gave us steaming piles of $hit that were miserable to ride. Those were the "original wheel" spring forks too. How they messed the tried and true spring fork technology up that bad is truly amazing. I won't mention the other manufactures' attempts at air forks on their production bikes. Some were horrible and a nightmare to set up.
Some hobbyists won't blink at spending $1200 on a Ti bolt kit to save 2lbs so a 3lb weight savings is nothing to sneeze at.
LMAO yeah dude for sure, questionable.
Pit Row
Priceless.
Meanwhile Yamaha has had it figured out since ‘06.
To dismiss the op’s point by saying “well their moto offering is as good as the YZ now” is to dismiss the pain KTM has put us through over the last 20 years.
Why the criticism? Are you just venting because you have been out of motocross for years and don’t understand it now?
3/4 of the riders I race against week in and week out are on a KTM platform. Are we all just clueless as to how shitty these motorcycles really are?
Sorry I don’t understand...
There'll probably be less clown show pointless topics.
Can't wait.
They are getting closer, although I gave up on them and switched to Cone and Trax last week.
Rumor is the 2023 fork takes another step forward toward spring fork feel, I guess we will see at the beginning of next year - they are working very hard at developing the best fork.
I've been open to the idea that I just don't understand motocross now, but the more I read the more I think I do understand that what KTM is selling for forks on production models is not a succeeding technology.
I'm friends with two racers, both are on KTM's, one is an amateur fun racer on air forks who wants cone valves, the other has their pro card and has cone valves.
I can see that KTM is the leading platform and that's sort of what frustrates me is I want to jump in, I want to be on one, but as a hobbyist (even though I'm not serious enough for any fork to make a difference) part of the fun is being particular and I don't want to buy something that is going to leave me feeling like what it really needs is a set of $4500+ kit forks. To my friends who are more serious that's worth it to them, but not to me. And I find it curious that KTM is sticking with this shortcoming on the showroom floor. I suspect there must be something cost wise behind it.
I just bought a 21 yz450f but I'd be lying if that quick test ride didn't have me considering the KTM
Post a reply to: Will KTM / WP ever give up on trying to reinvent the fork?