Why would a well-known Pro ever need to "Buy" a bike ??

OldPro277
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Didn't want to hijack the "James Stewart bought some Hondas" thread,so I started this one. Why would ANY name Pro ever need to buy a bike(s) to compete? You hear these stories every year of some deserving racer not getting a ride and looking at buying a couple bikes to race . Any local shop would probably quickly jump to loan/give James 2 or 3 bikes to be able to drop his name. I know of at least 3 local pros here in western Pa that get 2 to 3 bikes per year at n/c to practice/race on for the season and then returned in basically stock condition and sold as "so and so's" former race bike.(I know this for fact,because I orchestrated one of the deals for the rider) I can even remember back several years ago when Ryan Clark needed bikes (during the Team Solitaire days) a local western Pa Yamaha shop supplied him with bikes ,and he isnt even from around here. Certainly the stories of these well-known riders actually having to "buy" these bikes couldn't possibly be accurate. Am i missing something ???
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kkawboy14
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1/25/2017 3:10pm
I'm just guessing BUT probably because no one was interested in giving him one!


Now that he purchased one do you know how much Honda will hand him for a 1st place sx finish=free bike!
OldPro277
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1/25/2017 3:25pm
I find it impossible that not a single shop would give James Stewart a couple demo bikes to use in exchange to use his name. i just phoned a friend of mine that owns a long time Yamaha/ Husqvarna store and said it would be ridiculous not to hook a guy like James up. You could hardly put a number on what THAT kind of exposure would do for a local shop .
Mm471
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1/25/2017 3:32pm
Price of the area where the dealer logo for sponsors would be is probobaly higher than the bike
moto317
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1/25/2017 3:34pm
Yeah it's bullshit Toyota of Escondido will let dean Wilson roll around in a tundra but he has to buy dirt bikes......right.

The Shop

mxjeff575
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1/25/2017 3:34pm
Good topic. I have always wondered this too. Especially when I read how many manufacture's are providing 4+ bikes a year to amateur riders, that they wouldn't jump at the chance to supply 1 bike to a well known pro in these instances.
moto317
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1/25/2017 3:36pm
My guess is if they say that publicly any dealer listening will be like "fuck I'll give him a few bikes" and next thing they know they have a bunch of offers.
moto317
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1/25/2017 3:37pm
Fast local guys everywhere get free bikes pro's like James, Malcom, dean probably won't ever have to buy a dirt bike.
OldPro277
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1/25/2017 3:39pm
mxjeff575 wrote:
Good topic. I have always wondered this too. Especially when I read how many manufacture's are providing 4+ bikes a year to amateur riders, that they...
Good topic. I have always wondered this too. Especially when I read how many manufacture's are providing 4+ bikes a year to amateur riders, that they wouldn't jump at the chance to supply 1 bike to a well known pro in these instances.
Thats my point Jeff. These local shops are giving bikes to guys that are barely making night shows or the 40 man gate at the Nationals,but wouldnt give bikes to James ?? Bullshit. When Ryan Clark was getting his bikes from Crossroads out my way, they had people waiting to buy them at the end of the year. And as cool as Ryan is, he's no Bubba..
Dtat720
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1/25/2017 3:43pm
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation, the dealer would basically be eating the cost of the bike and taking a net loss on it. Im sure the bikes Dean and James bought were discounted, help the dealer not lose too much on helping a racer out.
Starcrossed
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1/25/2017 3:46pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
I'm just guessing BUT probably because no one was interested in giving him one! Now that he purchased one do you know how much Honda will...
I'm just guessing BUT probably because no one was interested in giving him one!


Now that he purchased one do you know how much Honda will hand him for a 1st place sx finish=free bike!
Actually it's $15,000, based on 2016 amounts.

http://www.xtrm.com/contingency/honda/index.asp?ev=570&yr=2016&evt=1
Fat Fingers
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1/25/2017 3:48pm
OldPro277 wrote:
I find it impossible that not a single shop would give James Stewart a couple demo bikes to use in exchange to use his name. i...
I find it impossible that not a single shop would give James Stewart a couple demo bikes to use in exchange to use his name. i just phoned a friend of mine that owns a long time Yamaha/ Husqvarna store and said it would be ridiculous not to hook a guy like James up. You could hardly put a number on what THAT kind of exposure would do for a local shop .
That sounds very nice, but if I owned a Honda Shop and I had a couple of 450's, I want to sell those which is why I bought them in the first place. Now you could use it as demo stock, but would you be doing your customers a favour by selling an ex-demo CRF450 that James Stewart had been riding for 3-4 weeks? That's no longer ex demo, that is a used bike.

Lets say you did it anyway. What exposure is giving away 2 bikes going to get you? If JS was going to do some autograph sessions, a day in the dirt or something else alongside the shop, then you might get a return on your investment but I'm guessing JS doesn't have much spare time at the moment and if he's going to race again soon, he doesn't want to have to do anything for your local shop and he would rather pay cash for the bikes, do whatever he needs to do and get back on the racetrack.
1/25/2017 3:53pm
Who are these guys, and what shop is this?! Managing a team racing the Canadian nationals, with some decently known North East pros (from PA and NY) my riders and I would kill to even get ONE bike at no cost! Don't get me wrong I appreciate the offers of support we have gotten from local dealers, but it seems like support to that level is a thing of the past.

Even if it was to be returned at the end of the season! My guys might not be in the same league as Stew but a top 10 contender in MX1 is still legit.

Around the NY area, it seems as though even JS himself, couldn't get set up with bikes from the dealers around here.
TXDirt
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1/25/2017 3:53pm
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
OldPro277
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1/25/2017 3:56pm
Im telling you that the scenario is this---- James rides/races that bike for the 6-10 races and then returns it to the dealer like as the norm around here and they will get FULL retail for that bike as soon as it hits the floor. Ive seen it happen. Plus with the dealers name plastered on the shrouds,and the notoriety that goes along with it. Its a win/win for any store.
Gilby122
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1/25/2017 3:59pm
Didn't Malcolm say a couple times that one of the amateurs that Seven sponsors is the son of a Suzuki dealer that hooked him up? I thought I saw that several times in his interview(s) last week, but don't believe he ever mentioned the kid or his dad or the dealership? Not much return there. But he did say whatever that kid needed in gear he'd be getting...and with the price of the Seven merchandise, maybe the kid made off better than some PR for his dads dealership! Smile
1/25/2017 4:02pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
While I agree that you are correct in theory, but in my experience it seems to have become a thing of the past. You don't see many "spectators" even at area, or regional races anymore. While there is always a fast local kid upfront winning races, anyone with enough talent to actually separate kids and teens from their phones long enough to accomplish what your saying, is at a training facility full time racing maybe 4 races a year other then the amateur nationals.

It seems to be all about who can generate Instagram views now. While I agree and grew up with the mindset your saying, it seems that no one is willing to invest within the local levels of the sport these days.

Maybe thats just me, and I would love to be wrong
Moto_Geek
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1/25/2017 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2017 4:20pm
OldPro277 wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the "James Stewart bought some Hondas" thread,so I started this one. Why would ANY name Pro ever need to buy a bike(s)...
Didn't want to hijack the "James Stewart bought some Hondas" thread,so I started this one. Why would ANY name Pro ever need to buy a bike(s) to compete? You hear these stories every year of some deserving racer not getting a ride and looking at buying a couple bikes to race . Any local shop would probably quickly jump to loan/give James 2 or 3 bikes to be able to drop his name. I know of at least 3 local pros here in western Pa that get 2 to 3 bikes per year at n/c to practice/race on for the season and then returned in basically stock condition and sold as "so and so's" former race bike.(I know this for fact,because I orchestrated one of the deals for the rider) I can even remember back several years ago when Ryan Clark needed bikes (during the Team Solitaire days) a local western Pa Yamaha shop supplied him with bikes ,and he isnt even from around here. Certainly the stories of these well-known riders actually having to "buy" these bikes couldn't possibly be accurate. Am i missing something ???
A well off guy like JS7 is probably more then happy to pay and support motorcycle shop. This how it was done before the > cough > "entitled millennials". Well does say your old pro, so let me know if you find out? LOL..

This is very interesting video out what we can expect in the years to come. Watch this video and see if you don't agree with Simon. Some crazy insight I never even thought of..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4093670/Millennials-entitled-narcissistic-lazy-s-not-fault-Expert-claims-child-wins-prize-social-media-left-Gen-Y-unable-deal-real-world.html
Moto_Geek
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1/25/2017 4:23pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
This was my first thought too.. Also JS7 then is not obligated to anyone, keeping things clean and stress free,
mxjeff575
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1/25/2017 4:24pm
mxjeff575 wrote:
Good topic. I have always wondered this too. Especially when I read how many manufacture's are providing 4+ bikes a year to amateur riders, that they...
Good topic. I have always wondered this too. Especially when I read how many manufacture's are providing 4+ bikes a year to amateur riders, that they wouldn't jump at the chance to supply 1 bike to a well known pro in these instances.
OldPro277 wrote:
Thats my point Jeff. These local shops are giving bikes to guys that are barely making night shows or the 40 man gate at the Nationals,but...
Thats my point Jeff. These local shops are giving bikes to guys that are barely making night shows or the 40 man gate at the Nationals,but wouldnt give bikes to James ?? Bullshit. When Ryan Clark was getting his bikes from Crossroads out my way, they had people waiting to buy them at the end of the year. And as cool as Ryan is, he's no Bubba..
OldPro277 - Yes, obviously there are several dealers willing to make this stuff happen, but then there is the manufacturers also (think "Team Green" type programs) where the manufacturer is the one footing the bill and supplying the bikes to the rider. With both of those options (bike directly from a manufacturer or a bike through a dealership), it just doesn't make sense to me.
UpTiTe
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1/25/2017 4:28pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation...
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation, the dealer would basically be eating the cost of the bike and taking a net loss on it. Im sure the bikes Dean and James bought were discounted, help the dealer not lose too much on helping a racer out.
This is what I was about to post.

Plus, big exposure doesn't always equate big sales.
kkawboy14
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1/25/2017 4:30pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
Most local dealers "loan" a bike to a local pro. They have to give it back in good condition at the end of the year. I bet Stewart could sell his bike for a profit at the end of the year, many of his fans would be all over buying it!

Speaking as a guy who has helped a number of Pros, they don't give you anything in return from a business standpoint. They are terrible spokesmen for products. But if you want access to races, riding school training from them for yourself or your kids, or shwag, they will hook you up or they are just your good friend. For a lot of people that's a good enough return. For a bike shop, not so much.
OldPro277
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1/25/2017 4:31pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
Thats absolutely true. My one rider had more issues getting the freebies when he wanted to do the Canadian series, the dealer wanted him to stay local and do at least 15-20 local events and the closest Nationals. Didnt want anything to do with the Canadian Nats, because obviously no one cared at Gopher Dunes where my guy got his bikes. But still, a BIG name guy certainly should be able to procur some bikes if he needed to. Yes, James can afford an entire dealership ,but it still doesnt make sense that some store,some where, wouldnt hook him up,
RonJon516
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1/25/2017 4:31pm
Good topic. My guess would be he doesn't want to be bothered having to give the local shop any love/time. I would imagine he is a very busy guy and would rather buy a couple bikes. And who knows, maybe he'll step into Rozcen's spot temporarily .
kiwifan
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1/25/2017 4:37pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation...
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation, the dealer would basically be eating the cost of the bike and taking a net loss on it. Im sure the bikes Dean and James bought were discounted, help the dealer not lose too much on helping a racer out.
I suspect he did get them for free but said he brought them, perhaps he means he brought them out of the shop rather than brought them...if you get my drift. SmileSmile If not well like you said dealers do have limited numbers and its sometime after the bikes first came out plus he probably doesnt have a big relationship with the local Honda dealer....well does now lol
1/25/2017 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2017 4:44pm
RonJon516 wrote:
Good topic. My guess would be he doesn't want to be bothered having to give the local shop any love/time. I would imagine he is a...
Good topic. My guess would be he doesn't want to be bothered having to give the local shop any love/time. I would imagine he is a very busy guy and would rather buy a couple bikes. And who knows, maybe he'll step into Rozcen's spot temporarily .
Could also simply be that his business management/agency has his endorsement value set at higher than whatever cost he procured said bike for.
Titan1
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1/25/2017 4:51pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation...
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation, the dealer would basically be eating the cost of the bike and taking a net loss on it. Im sure the bikes Dean and James bought were discounted, help the dealer not lose too much on helping a racer out.
kiwifan wrote:
I suspect he did get them for free but said he brought them, perhaps he means he brought them out of the shop rather than brought...
I suspect he did get them for free but said he brought them, perhaps he means he brought them out of the shop rather than brought them...if you get my drift. SmileSmile If not well like you said dealers do have limited numbers and its sometime after the bikes first came out plus he probably doesnt have a big relationship with the local Honda dealer....well does now lol
bought vs. brought?
1/25/2017 4:56pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation...
Dealers have race programs available to them. limited number of units and they are usually spoken for before they take delivery. In James or Deans situation, the dealer would basically be eating the cost of the bike and taking a net loss on it. Im sure the bikes Dean and James bought were discounted, help the dealer not lose too much on helping a racer out.
UpTiTe wrote:
This is what I was about to post.

Plus, big exposure doesn't always equate big sales.
While I understand dealers these days simply can not afford to eat the cost, I feel like there are still ways to help make it happen for those deserving privateer riders. Call me crazy, but I think all it takes is some creativity. My very first "new" bike was not "brand spanking new". A father purchased the Kx 60 for his son behind his wife's back. The day it left the shop, the kid breaks his arm, and the Kx suddenly appeared "slightly used" in my driveway.

For my rider's practice bikes, I would be happy to even have a current/ and or clean return/ trade in. Dealers often have trade in bikes, or returned bikes laying around the shop and sales floor. instead of letting them sit to collect dust, why not help out some local privateers. Realistically your giving the bike to someone who will probably be changing all the used, damaged, or worn parts that are preventing you from selling it in the first place.

Maybe I am crazy. I'm conflicted between the old thought process of a local shop supporting professional racing, and the current attitude of if your good enough just let the OEM's do it. All I know is something needs to change to benefit the privateers, and the sport from racers to dealers on the local level
TXDirt
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1/25/2017 5:21pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Most local dealers "loan" a bike to a local pro. They have to give it back in good condition at the end of the year. I...
Most local dealers "loan" a bike to a local pro. They have to give it back in good condition at the end of the year. I bet Stewart could sell his bike for a profit at the end of the year, many of his fans would be all over buying it!

Speaking as a guy who has helped a number of Pros, they don't give you anything in return from a business standpoint. They are terrible spokesmen for products. But if you want access to races, riding school training from them for yourself or your kids, or shwag, they will hook you up or they are just your good friend. For a lot of people that's a good enough return. For a bike shop, not so much.
I didn't say they get to keep them. Yes they have to turn them back in. The dealers do not loan out a bike in the hopes of profiting on the resale. So what if Stewart's bike sales for 2k above list.

If one new kid gets hooked on riding/racing at a young age then that family over the course of 10 years may buy several bikes from the dealer. Those relationship are generated on the local level and they can last for years.

That's the dealers target market. That's why they are called local dealers. There have been several local dealers that have tried to do race teams at the national level, and guess what they are not around as teams anymore because it doesn't translate to sales at the local level. Conversely I know several local dealerships that couldn't care less about nationals, or LL and all that crap and they have been in business 30-40 years and counting.
TXDirt
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1/25/2017 5:31pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
While I agree that you are correct in theory, but in my experience it seems to have become a thing of the past. You don't see...
While I agree that you are correct in theory, but in my experience it seems to have become a thing of the past. You don't see many "spectators" even at area, or regional races anymore. While there is always a fast local kid upfront winning races, anyone with enough talent to actually separate kids and teens from their phones long enough to accomplish what your saying, is at a training facility full time racing maybe 4 races a year other then the amateur nationals.

It seems to be all about who can generate Instagram views now. While I agree and grew up with the mindset your saying, it seems that no one is willing to invest within the local levels of the sport these days.

Maybe thats just me, and I would love to be wrong
I'm not talking about fast local kids, I'm talking about fast local pros. Those are the ones that new riders will first adopt as being a fan of. Young hot shot kids you are right are at a training facility and likely don't need support from a local dealer. They get that support from Team Green, KTM, etc.

Local racing is still homegrown and still organic and that's a local dealers target market. There are plenty of local pros who are fast on local tracks. They just don't have the money, talent, time, or maybe the care to move out of local racing scene and that's fine. They are happy racing locally and there is definitely a fan base that develops between local kids and the local pro riders. That's who the local dealers want to sponsor because it's those new riders, kids, families etc who will be coming in to dealership to buy bikes, parts, gear etc.
kkawboy14
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1/25/2017 5:32pm
TXDirt wrote:
Here is my experience on this... Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing...
Here is my experience on this...

Local dealerships get more exposure in their target market by giving local pros free bikes. The local pros are racing local events and local state series. That sells bikes to new potential customers. Kids usually get exposed to local pros before knowing much about a national series. A 7 year old kid doesn't even know or doesn't care that Dean Wilson finished 12 in a supercross they know nothing about. But if dad takes kid to local race and they watch the hot shot local pros then the kid becomes a fan in some ways first on the local level.

Hope that sorta makes some sense.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Most local dealers "loan" a bike to a local pro. They have to give it back in good condition at the end of the year. I...
Most local dealers "loan" a bike to a local pro. They have to give it back in good condition at the end of the year. I bet Stewart could sell his bike for a profit at the end of the year, many of his fans would be all over buying it!

Speaking as a guy who has helped a number of Pros, they don't give you anything in return from a business standpoint. They are terrible spokesmen for products. But if you want access to races, riding school training from them for yourself or your kids, or shwag, they will hook you up or they are just your good friend. For a lot of people that's a good enough return. For a bike shop, not so much.
TXDirt wrote:
I didn't say they get to keep them. Yes they have to turn them back in. The dealers do not loan out a bike in the...
I didn't say they get to keep them. Yes they have to turn them back in. The dealers do not loan out a bike in the hopes of profiting on the resale. So what if Stewart's bike sales for 2k above list.

If one new kid gets hooked on riding/racing at a young age then that family over the course of 10 years may buy several bikes from the dealer. Those relationship are generated on the local level and they can last for years.

That's the dealers target market. That's why they are called local dealers. There have been several local dealers that have tried to do race teams at the national level, and guess what they are not around as teams anymore because it doesn't translate to sales at the local level. Conversely I know several local dealerships that couldn't care less about nationals, or LL and all that crap and they have been in business 30-40 years and counting.
I was just stating that for guys that may not know. But for sure the dealer loses money on the deal.

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