Why the Asian GP´s make sense (with stats)

Sunhouse
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Edited Date/Time 10/17/2022 11:26am
As a long time moto forum member on various sites, a frequent topic is "how to grow the sport". When changes or attempts are made, little is gained in terms of new fans except for when big personalities or achievements are made (Pastrana, Stewart and RC/MC come to mind). The sport also grows when a talent from more untraditional countries emerge (think Gaijser, Fonseca etc), bringing new money and interest.

From reading the feedback regarding the Indonesian and Vietnamese MXGP rounds, I felt like many were missing the bigger picture here. Growing the sport means bringing money into the pockets of the stakeholders - plain and simple. More money for the stakeholders trickle down to the teams getting better sponsorship deals, ultimately bringing more money and exposure to the riders and overall infrastructure. For reference: see what happened to salaries and team budgets post-2008 when outside money dried up and bike sales were low.

Population of South East Asia
For starters: SEA has approx 2/3 of the worlds population. In addition, motorcycles are the most common means of privately owned transportation. This means sales and brand awareness for a manufacturer is critical in order to compete.


As most of us know, motocross and dirt bikes in general are not what make the big brands their money. As have been stated in multiple interviews by leading execs in many moto publications; motocross is important for brand awareness and competitiveness, but it does not mean much for a manufacturers overall sales figures. However brand awareness is crucial to sales across the different bike categories. As you can see below, when put together with ALL off-road sales, it is still a incredibly small and niche market as a standalone:
(Source: Statista)
World MC sales by category and brand

Percentage of housholds owning motorcycles
As before mentioned, motorcycles are more common for households in SEA than cars. Add the fact that this counts for roughly 65% of the earth population and you have one hell of a giant market dwarfing any Western country. I will attach the link to official numbers, but here is a run-down:
Housholds owning a motorcycle or scooter (2014)
Official numbers from 2014

- The top 8 are all Asian
- Incl. worlds 2 most populated countries
- Top 3 all have or recently had a GP:

1. Thailand (87%) - Total population = 70 million people
2. Vietnam (86%) - Total population = 99 million people
3. Indonesia (85%) - Total population = 280 million people

If anyone would like to argue buying power (besides 85%+/- actually owning a MC/scooter), I´d point to the middle class as a good reference for buying power. China has according to Business Insider approx 700 million people in the middle class. Some say it´s lower and roughly 400 mill. It does not matter for the point I´m trying to make here regardless - the Asian market is the largest by far. However, if anyone would like to make the argument, you will find the SEA middle class population from 2000 - 2020 here: SEA Middle Class population by country (Statista)

Why does this matter to Motocross?

Factories
For the factory teams this is a given - it sells bikes in the Asian market. I don´t know how well traveled people are here, but I have been to all of the countries and what I often see are bikes decked out with aftermarket parts and stickers from MotoGP and MX. I will admit this is rather anecdotal though. But they might not all afford the real bikes, but you can bet many chose the brand they ride from the stickers and decals they run. Motorcycle racing is huge and brand awareness sells bikes. Getting VR46 to Yamaha did wonders for Yamaha in Asia alone. Bringing World Championships to these markets have their obvious advantages.
As for attracting sponsorship, I will cover this below

Non-factory
Teams rely on sponsorship money to go racing. We are used to seeing sugary energy drinks, power tool manufactureres etc. as sponsors of teams. So for the following point I am sure some will dislike what I have to say. but since this is an economic and not a political issue, I´ll say it anyways:

It is not up to the promoters to give the teams or riders their sponsors. The MXGP´s offer a series which is being brought to the most populated parts of the world. It is each team´s own job to sell their sponsorship oportunities to the right stakeholders. I don´t believe for a second that largely European teams can´t find sponsors wanting exposure in the Asian markets, be it for motorcycles, or synergetic markets. It all comes down to discovering new market segments to approach. One example is the high amount of Dutch MX teams, yet very little Asian sponsorship. With the Dutch having arguably a strong business presence in Asia, more rounds there should not really work at their disadvantage in terms of attracting new outside sponsorship.


So what is my point?
Back to the intro: what makes the sport grow? It is reaching new markets. Attracting new outside sponsorship and exposure. Forget the US and Europe for major growth. It has been tried for 50+ years, the market is dried out or saturated. We need new markets attracting new money and new promoters. MX sells motorcycles in Asia, and it can help sell local sponsors products too.
And here is is a thought: Down the line, this can attract Asian teams and with sponsors eager to grow exposure too.
My point is: the Asian rounds are a brilliant way to try to grow the sport and it´s exposure for teams, riders and most importantly; sponsors.

Disclaimer I don´t mind the 25-30 riders at the gate for a while, I´m sick of seeing lappers in a professional race at lap 5 anyways.
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Bacon_n_Egg'r
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10/12/2022 11:48am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2022 12:22pm
Much of MotoGP's success in Asia is directly linked to Rossi and later on, Marquez. Big personalities. Yes the population are very dependent on motorcycles and generally support motorsport, but MXGP needs a transcendent personality to really drive it home to succeed outside of mainland Europe. Or better yet, 2 big personalities battling for a title. Herlings is close, but let's be honest the global presence for any MX athlete is not the equal of MotoGP, not even close. For as incredible of a season Eli Tomac has just had, his global presence pales in comparison to Fabio Quatararo.

To get things growing, InFront probably needs to invest in something like the Asia Talent Cup that MotoGP supports. We can already see the success of this with Asian riders racing in all 3 World Championship classes. Look at the recent Thai round of MotoGP and the crazed fan support for Chantra. However, IMO, I do not see InFront having the same vision to try to build motocross in Asia, currently it mostly seems happy to just take the money and run....
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early
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10/12/2022 12:18pm
^^Really wish there was more cooperation between different types of motorcycle racing.
philG
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10/12/2022 12:45pm
Just wish the riders had a slice of the pie.
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The Shop

Sc2
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10/12/2022 1:19pm
I would not normally read a post as long as yours, but you put it down in laymens terms and made it interesting, therefore it kept me reading to the end and on paper it makes sense

I'm far from an expert, I have only been to Nepal, where majority of the transport are motorbikes, they do have a few Chinese knock off moto x enduro bikes, but can't really see the masses to be able to afford the Japanese /euro brands, I'm not saying that's the case in other aisan countries, but would guess based on Nepal, how would it work
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#434
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10/12/2022 1:26pm
Bravo! Great post!

The FIM should combine different events in these emerging markets. Hold a MotoGP race with an MX/SupercrossGP, Extreme Enduro, Trials and so on at the same venue. Making it really big international events where those countries can show the world and their populations what's up.
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creature654
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10/12/2022 1:30pm
I 100% disagree. You want the sport to grow? Produce the best racing. How many people got into MXGP this year because last year was so amazing? Go to the places where the best riders live and they will show up and put on a show. Go to east bf Asia and you’ll get a portion of your European regulars, and a couple guys who are a total hazard to the stars that are taking a huge health risk to race in places like that for literally no extra money than they would if the entire schedule was in Europe.
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#434
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10/12/2022 2:52pm
I 100% disagree. You want the sport to grow? Produce the best racing. How many people got into MXGP this year because last year was so...
I 100% disagree. You want the sport to grow? Produce the best racing. How many people got into MXGP this year because last year was so amazing? Go to the places where the best riders live and they will show up and put on a show. Go to east bf Asia and you’ll get a portion of your European regulars, and a couple guys who are a total hazard to the stars that are taking a huge health risk to race in places like that for literally no extra money than they would if the entire schedule was in Europe.
Either you’re trolling or you’re amazingly narrow minded..
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RaceFace58
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10/12/2022 4:16pm
To the Op you want to grow the sport by adding rounds and series in various markets yet don’t like that there currently isn’t enough talent to not have guys going a lap down in 5 laps. You aren’t going to force a sport to grow. It happens organically because the product is so good and appeals to a lot of people. Mx/SX needs to grow in viewership where they are already. Most attempts to “grow” are simply ways to try and bleed more money out of it for personal greed not a betterment of the sport.
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Stewyeww
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10/12/2022 4:59pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
To the Op you want to grow the sport by adding rounds and series in various markets yet don’t like that there currently isn’t enough talent...
To the Op you want to grow the sport by adding rounds and series in various markets yet don’t like that there currently isn’t enough talent to not have guys going a lap down in 5 laps. You aren’t going to force a sport to grow. It happens organically because the product is so good and appeals to a lot of people. Mx/SX needs to grow in viewership where they are already. Most attempts to “grow” are simply ways to try and bleed more money out of it for personal greed not a betterment of the sport.
You didn't read his whole post did you?
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sandman768
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10/12/2022 6:20pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2022 6:21pm
OP Good points…hopefully we should be seeing a large influx of Asian Mx teams in about 3-5 years
bens152
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10/12/2022 11:26pm
Because myself and many expats live in Asia, and coming from NZ I have never in my life thought it was possible to see these guys ride in person. I can go to Motogp, MXGP, and maybe soon WSX without the expense of getting to America or Europe. That’s pretty cool to me.

And yes, all the points that OP makes. Motorcycle riders - esp Motogp are like gods over here.
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bens152
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10/12/2022 11:28pm
Another thing, the lack of dirt bikes for sale and availability is very limited here. I know so many people who want a motocross bike or dual sport - anything. And just no stock.
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roninho
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10/13/2022 12:23am
Sunhouse, i think that is a very strong post. And i for sure think that a well thought out growth strategy in those markets would be a very good way for the sport to grow.

The problem i see which makes me not agree with this being a good strategy for MXGP is that it misses on one major point. And that is that Youthstream/Luongo/Infront has a long history of not caring about growing this sport. At all. The only reason we are going to those areas is because they can make a quick buck. That's the only reason. No growth plans, no building a good base for the future, no nothing.

Once the easy money dries up they will be gone asap. Just like they did the past decade in China, Mexico, Thailand, Qatar, Brazil and the USA.


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brlatm
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10/13/2022 12:47am
Sc2 wrote:
I would not normally read a post as long as yours, but you put it down in laymens terms and made it interesting, therefore it kept...
I would not normally read a post as long as yours, but you put it down in laymens terms and made it interesting, therefore it kept me reading to the end and on paper it makes sense

I'm far from an expert, I have only been to Nepal, where majority of the transport are motorbikes, they do have a few Chinese knock off moto x enduro bikes, but can't really see the masses to be able to afford the Japanese /euro brands, I'm not saying that's the case in other aisan countries, but would guess based on Nepal, how would it work
I've been to Vietnam 2x with my kids on vacation. We rented brand new Yamaha 175cc 2 seater mopeds for $ 8 USD for 24hrs of use. It seemed that almost everyone in the country had a Japanese-branded bike with some knockoffs to be seen as well.

As for others that may not understand the appeal of going over to SE Asia, look to Formula 1 for a reference, do you think everyone can be able to race a car like that? Hell no, but they will go in masses to Kuala Lumpur, and to the Singapore rounds. I've been to the KL round, and the number of people was madness.

My $0.02
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arebnac
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10/13/2022 7:43am
I understand the "need money" thing but we are not fools. Are them taking money from these new tracks? Cuz mxgp looks poor and week as f* tbh... (As a whole)
As I said in other topic, FIM should go for the bikes used in the asia market an start a big ASIAN Championship with those bikes... Like this one, but racing in 10 or more countries. Just like they do with european championships and ama does in US

https://youtu.be/SAo4OcJTtUg
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Sunhouse
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10/13/2022 9:04am
roninho wrote:
Sunhouse, i think that is a very strong post. And i for sure think that a well thought out growth strategy in those markets would be...
Sunhouse, i think that is a very strong post. And i for sure think that a well thought out growth strategy in those markets would be a very good way for the sport to grow.

The problem i see which makes me not agree with this being a good strategy for MXGP is that it misses on one major point. And that is that Youthstream/Luongo/Infront has a long history of not caring about growing this sport. At all. The only reason we are going to those areas is because they can make a quick buck. That's the only reason. No growth plans, no building a good base for the future, no nothing.

Once the easy money dries up they will be gone asap. Just like they did the past decade in China, Mexico, Thailand, Qatar, Brazil and the USA.


Thanks!
While I see the argument of some lining up their pockets, I think taking the sport to the biggest markets is a good decision. If the teams or the sport don´t have the business acumen to capitalize on that, it would be their own fault. They are given the tools to go there, and it is up to them to capitalize on that opportunity IMO. It´s not turned around in a year or two, but I can not understand why any team would not try to draw in big sponsors from the worlds biggest motorcycle markets. It´s business 101
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Sunhouse
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10/13/2022 9:10am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2022 9:30am
brlatm wrote:
I've been to Vietnam 2x with my kids on vacation. We rented brand new Yamaha 175cc 2 seater mopeds for $ 8 USD for 24hrs of...
I've been to Vietnam 2x with my kids on vacation. We rented brand new Yamaha 175cc 2 seater mopeds for $ 8 USD for 24hrs of use. It seemed that almost everyone in the country had a Japanese-branded bike with some knockoffs to be seen as well.

As for others that may not understand the appeal of going over to SE Asia, look to Formula 1 for a reference, do you think everyone can be able to race a car like that? Hell no, but they will go in masses to Kuala Lumpur, and to the Singapore rounds. I've been to the KL round, and the number of people was madness.

My $0.02
I agree and have been to both local races and F1 in Asia and it is incredibly popular. The market for motorcycles is the biggest in the world, and it gives the manufacturers incredible PR and sales in the region across bike types.
If Honda can sell thousands of additional road bikes because people have seen Gaijser kill it, it´s worth it. And so is the following sponsorship market to boot. They don´t go racing MX in Asia to sell more MX bikes, they go there to build their brand to sell bikes across the range, and build the sport in new markets and sponsorships
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whethefakawe
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10/13/2022 12:31pm
What's the obsession with "growing the sport"?

Every niche sport that went mainstream, turned to shit. As someone said -- the "growing" is merely greedy operators and the large corporations seeing opportunity to stuff their pockets.

Having 200 000 spectators at a MotoGP in, say, KL, means fuckall. Now..........If those 200 000 people went and bought Yamaha R1s or KTM 450s, and the riding gear, aftermarket parts and pickup trucks or trailers to go with it............THEN it would be "growing the sport". But we know that's not happening.

How many kids, young people, or midlife crisis bikers in Vietnam or Thailand (or Qatar, or Zimbabwe) can afford $12K dirtbikes....plus 2K or 3K worth of gear and tools......plus a vehicle to transport it all ??

How many MX tracks in Vietnam or Thailand or Qatar? How many KTM dealers? How many aftermarket manufacturers?

Never mind oppressive societies like China. Ya think they have MX tracks out in the countryside, made by local kids on their YZ80s and 125s?

The statistics are misleading. Yes, there are massive numbers of "motorcycles" in Asia. No, they're not CRFs or R1s or Ducati's......but small, cheap scooters used as every day transport. Just watch "motorcycle fail" on youtube, FFS Laughing

Travelling circuses like MotoGP or MXGP don't "grow" the sport, participation by people do. Until large % of populations can afford $12K dirtbikes or $20K superbikes, it's just statistics.



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Park Boys
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10/13/2022 2:14pm
Anytime the World Motocoss championship leaves Europe it’s a good thing. For diversity’s sake. They should however find away to leave Eurasia more than once a year.
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RaceFace58
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10/13/2022 5:56pm
What's the obsession with "growing the sport"? Every niche sport that went mainstream, turned to shit. As someone said -- the "growing" is merely greedy operators...
What's the obsession with "growing the sport"?

Every niche sport that went mainstream, turned to shit. As someone said -- the "growing" is merely greedy operators and the large corporations seeing opportunity to stuff their pockets.

Having 200 000 spectators at a MotoGP in, say, KL, means fuckall. Now..........If those 200 000 people went and bought Yamaha R1s or KTM 450s, and the riding gear, aftermarket parts and pickup trucks or trailers to go with it............THEN it would be "growing the sport". But we know that's not happening.

How many kids, young people, or midlife crisis bikers in Vietnam or Thailand (or Qatar, or Zimbabwe) can afford $12K dirtbikes....plus 2K or 3K worth of gear and tools......plus a vehicle to transport it all ??

How many MX tracks in Vietnam or Thailand or Qatar? How many KTM dealers? How many aftermarket manufacturers?

Never mind oppressive societies like China. Ya think they have MX tracks out in the countryside, made by local kids on their YZ80s and 125s?

The statistics are misleading. Yes, there are massive numbers of "motorcycles" in Asia. No, they're not CRFs or R1s or Ducati's......but small, cheap scooters used as every day transport. Just watch "motorcycle fail" on youtube, FFS Laughing

Travelling circuses like MotoGP or MXGP don't "grow" the sport, participation by people do. Until large % of populations can afford $12K dirtbikes or $20K superbikes, it's just statistics.



As I said in agreement with this, you can’t grow any sport with action alone. A lot of sports like baseball are looking for ways to not LOSE viewers/fans. The premise presented here is “this is what they need to do” to grow the sport. MXGP does not need to be in Thailand are wherever to grow. They need to improve what exists not expand it. I am an avid MX guy and I have no interest in the MXGPs. I have too much going on to pay attention to AMA SX MX and the GPS. Most of the MX market rides themselves. Other sports like football, the viewers hobby is WATCHING the sport. They have nothing else but that. They get all amped up on Sunday in their teams gear buy a bunch of beer and nachos and have friends over and get drunk and yell. They aren’t thinking all week about going ti play football on Sunday. All that’s needed to grow the sport is increase TV viewership by 10x to start. now if you figure out a way to just make that happen through action then you are a genius like the sport has never seen. The MXGPs have historically gone to the countries who line the promoter pockets the most.
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RaceFace58
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10/13/2022 6:02pm
And I’m not sure why I keep seeing F1 and MotoGP mentioned here. This is VitalMX. Not VitalF1 or VitalMotoGP. MX will never have the draw of those motor sports. Just like hockey will never be any closer to football. There’s something about going 200mph that really gets people excited.
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10/14/2022 2:21am
RaceFace58 wrote:
And I’m not sure why I keep seeing F1 and MotoGP mentioned here. This is VitalMX. Not VitalF1 or VitalMotoGP. MX will never have the draw...
And I’m not sure why I keep seeing F1 and MotoGP mentioned here. This is VitalMX. Not VitalF1 or VitalMotoGP. MX will never have the draw of those motor sports. Just like hockey will never be any closer to football. There’s something about going 200mph that really gets people excited.
Depends where you live. If we are talking participation, hockey exceeds football up here, but we have six months of winter up here and my sons hockey “season” is at least 9 months long (regular, spring and elite). The southern part of your country is Desert with winter temps of 65, not conducive to ice rinks but I consider 65 as a reasonable summer day here.

To grow the sport, you need to provide the opportunity for the young ones to step away from fortnite and experience riding in a cheap safe environment. One or two times would get some of them hooked. Availability is key, not everyone can take his brothers dt400 and hit the ditches like I did.

Manufacturers need to develop or support ‘rental ranches”. Go rent bike and gear, and go for a rip on a trail bike.
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10/14/2022 8:23am
It's a business move, the more they go the more they will gain interest from this region long term goals call it an investment.
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MNboxlax44
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10/15/2022 5:29am
I think the problem is, in this sport so many people want to “grow the sport” but every attempt they have just pisses off racing series….WSX….what this sport needs is a Drive to Survive type series…and I mean full out Netflix project that covers American and the euro racing circuit, take about 6 riders from each side (3 factory, 3 privateers) and it all culminates at Mxon…the Red Bull series was good the mxgp one last year was meh imo…that’s how you grow the sport not having all these different series’s and OEM fighting over where riders can go n shit
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10/15/2022 6:01am
MNboxlax44 wrote:
I think the problem is, in this sport so many people want to “grow the sport” but every attempt they have just pisses off racing series….WSX….what...
I think the problem is, in this sport so many people want to “grow the sport” but every attempt they have just pisses off racing series….WSX….what this sport needs is a Drive to Survive type series…and I mean full out Netflix project that covers American and the euro racing circuit, take about 6 riders from each side (3 factory, 3 privateers) and it all culminates at Mxon…the Red Bull series was good the mxgp one last year was meh imo…that’s how you grow the sport not having all these different series’s and OEM fighting over where riders can go n shit
To be fair US Supercross didn't go global and that's fine but as an international fan and a Dirt Bike rider myself I'm stokked I have the opportunity to have a Supercross event that has world class riders attending, if US supercross doesn't do it someone else will and has and I'm glad.

And I agree with your about the documentary idea, something like that would be a major help.
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RaceFace58
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10/15/2022 10:54am
MNboxlax44 wrote:
I think the problem is, in this sport so many people want to “grow the sport” but every attempt they have just pisses off racing series….WSX….what...
I think the problem is, in this sport so many people want to “grow the sport” but every attempt they have just pisses off racing series….WSX….what this sport needs is a Drive to Survive type series…and I mean full out Netflix project that covers American and the euro racing circuit, take about 6 riders from each side (3 factory, 3 privateers) and it all culminates at Mxon…the Red Bull series was good the mxgp one last year was meh imo…that’s how you grow the sport not having all these different series’s and OEM fighting over where riders can go n shit
That should do it.

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