Why suzukis turn so well

JM485
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JM485 9/22/2018 10:53am
9/22/2018 10:53am
Tiki wrote:
Rake, wheelbase, sag, spring height, offset of forks, how the motor is mounted in the cradle. It is not just one thing. And any bike can...
Rake, wheelbase, sag, spring height, offset of forks, how the motor is mounted in the cradle. It is not just one thing. And any bike can be made to turn well, it's not witchcraft. Just from the floor, Suzuki turns better than others most years.
H4L wrote:
Yep. The sag & suspension work do help. but it is more of a fine tuning aspect of it. It really starts with the foundation of...
Yep. The sag & suspension work do help. but it is more of a fine tuning aspect of it. It really starts with the foundation of the chassis, swing arm & triple clamp dimensions. The YZ is a good example of it as it is a stable chassis with not having a good turning feature.
When you put the four stroke swingarm on they become much, much better. Seems like a small change on paper, but man does it really change the bike. Why they don’t do this from the factory is beyond me, some years are a bolt on mod.
H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 11:49am
9/22/2018 11:49am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2018 11:54am
JM485 wrote:
When you put the four stroke swingarm on they become much, much better. Seems like a small change on paper, but man does it really change...
When you put the four stroke swingarm on they become much, much better. Seems like a small change on paper, but man does it really change the bike. Why they don’t do this from the factory is beyond me, some years are a bolt on mod.
How does it compare to the RM or 3rd gen AF CR after the mod ? After owning a few 02-12 YZ's they weren't even in the same league as the CR & RM.
Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/22/2018 12:19pm
9/22/2018 12:19pm
Are we actually comparing 20+ year old bikes to how the new gen RMs corner?
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malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 5:30pm
9/22/2018 5:30pm
malachi177 wrote:
The Honda doesn't turn as well as the Zook.
H4L wrote:
My experience tells me otherwise...
What year RMZ have you rode?
JM485
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JM485 9/22/2018 5:34pm
9/22/2018 5:34pm
JM485 wrote:
When you put the four stroke swingarm on they become much, much better. Seems like a small change on paper, but man does it really change...
When you put the four stroke swingarm on they become much, much better. Seems like a small change on paper, but man does it really change the bike. Why they don’t do this from the factory is beyond me, some years are a bolt on mod.
H4L wrote:
How does it compare to the RM or 3rd gen AF CR after the mod ? After owning a few 02-12 YZ's they weren't even in...
How does it compare to the RM or 3rd gen AF CR after the mod ? After owning a few 02-12 YZ's they weren't even in the same league as the CR & RM.
My only comparison there is my 04 cr125, which is still the best chassis I’ve ridden. With the new style swing arm the front end push of the Yamaha is reduced significantly, I’m able to run my forks at a reasonable height for moto and not way up in the clamps searching for front end traction. By far the single best mod I’ve done to the bike, it’s probably pretty close to getting you to Suzuki level, but the Honda is still superior as far as I’m concerned.

This is a lot of personal preference though, I’ll gladly give up some stability for cornering just due to my riding style since head shake and twitchyness isn’t really a problem for me.
H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 6:41pm
9/22/2018 6:41pm
malachi177 wrote:
What year RMZ have you rode?
Are you going to try to convince me how much better the Zuk turns ?
H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 6:48pm
9/22/2018 6:48pm
JM485 wrote:
My only comparison there is my 04 cr125, which is still the best chassis I’ve ridden. With the new style swing arm the front end push...
My only comparison there is my 04 cr125, which is still the best chassis I’ve ridden. With the new style swing arm the front end push of the Yamaha is reduced significantly, I’m able to run my forks at a reasonable height for moto and not way up in the clamps searching for front end traction. By far the single best mod I’ve done to the bike, it’s probably pretty close to getting you to Suzuki level, but the Honda is still superior as far as I’m concerned.

This is a lot of personal preference though, I’ll gladly give up some stability for cornering just due to my riding style since head shake and twitchyness isn’t really a problem for me.
Thnxz for the feedback.
malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 7:41pm
9/22/2018 7:41pm
malachi177 wrote:
What year RMZ have you rode?
H4L wrote:
Are you going to try to convince me how much better the Zuk turns ?
So the answer is no, got it. You have zero experience.
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magoo1982
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magoo1982 9/22/2018 8:03pm
9/22/2018 8:03pm
wreckitrandy wrote:
DeCoster
Also I think they had Joel Smets doing a lot of testing in Europe ,on the 450 ...
H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 8:03pm
9/22/2018 8:03pm
malachi177 wrote:
So the answer is no, got it. You have zero experience.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. It was obvious from your 1st post you were just trolling. How about try adding something useful to the thread instead of focusing on my posts. I'm not the only one who believes the Zuk is the only good turning bike...
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malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 8:18pm
9/22/2018 8:18pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2018 8:21pm
malachi177 wrote:
So the answer is no, got it. You have zero experience.
H4L wrote:
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. It was obvious from your 1st post you were just trolling. How about try adding something useful to...
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. It was obvious from your 1st post you were just trolling. How about try adding something useful to the thread instead of focusing on my posts. I'm not the only one who believes the Zuk is the only good turning bike...
Well you never answered my question. You did, with another question. Suzuki hasn't made a full size two stroke in 10 years so the question from the OP was towards four strokes. Yet your going by that for your experience...based on smokers. If you haven't ridden an RMZ you cannot have a legitimate basis to go from. That's it. For that matter, have you rode a new CRF? I'm far from trolling. You deflected my question. If anything you are the one trolling by making statements that aren't relevant.
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BR8ES
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BR8ES 9/22/2018 8:24pm
9/22/2018 8:24pm
H4L has an 18 CRF450
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malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 8:29pm
9/22/2018 8:29pm
BR8ES wrote:
H4L has an 18 CRF450
Now we're getting somewhere....lol. Now if only he'd answer my other question lmao
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H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 8:30pm
9/22/2018 8:30pm
malachi177 wrote:
Well you never answered my question. You did, with another question. Suzuki hasn't made a full size two stroke in 10 years so the question from...
Well you never answered my question. You did, with another question. Suzuki hasn't made a full size two stroke in 10 years so the question from the OP was towards four strokes. Yet your going by that for your experience...based on smokers. If you haven't ridden an RMZ you cannot have a legitimate basis to go from. That's it. For that matter, have you rode a new CRF? I'm far from trolling. You deflected my question. If anything you are the one trolling by making statements that aren't relevant.
You should read the title of this thread & the OP's 1st post..
In sone posts members talk about 01 rm's yet you focused on my posts. Again it was obvious you were focused on my posts..
H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 8:38pm
9/22/2018 8:38pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2018 8:45pm
BR8ES wrote:
H4L has an 18 CRF450
Aprreciate your response, but I don't need to answer to someone who already has a preconceived notion..
BR8ES
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BR8ES 9/22/2018 8:44pm
9/22/2018 8:44pm
BR8ES wrote:
H4L has an 18 CRF450
H4L wrote:
Aprreciate your response, but I don't need to answer to someone who already has a preconceived notion..
yeah, not sure what is going on at this point!
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MPJC
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MPJC 9/22/2018 8:47pm
9/22/2018 8:47pm
I rode a friend's RMZ 450 and loved it. He's similar in age, weight, and ability (ok, he's faster than me) and I felt instantly comfortable on the bike. I believe it was an 11, with revalved suspension and Yosh exhaust. I later had a chance to ride a 2016 bike and wasn't comfortable at all. I get the impression that these bikes are very sensitive to setup. The 16 wanted to turn too sharp, and wasn't comfortable in long, sweeping corners - felt really sketchy. To be fair, I rode both bikes on a sand track, and the 16 didn't have sand tires and the 11 did. It felt like the chassis wanted to turn sharp in a way that exceeded the front wheel grip, if that makes any sense. And it doesn't help that the 16 forks didn't feel that great. But given my experience on the 11, I'm sure I could set up an RMZ to feel awesome - though maybe not with the 16 stock forks. That 11 RMZ just felt so perfectly planted in the corners that it was almost unbelievable.

I love the way my KTMs handle but I can sure see the appeal of a well set up RMZ. Would others agree that the Suzukis are more sensitive to setup than other bikes? I can ride a KTM that isn't set up particularly well for me and still be fairly comfortable. I can't say the same about an RMZ, from the little experience I have.
malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 8:48pm
9/22/2018 8:48pm
BR8ES wrote:
H4L has an 18 CRF450
H4L wrote:
Aprreciate your response, but I don't need to answer to someone who already has a preconceived notion..

Nothing preconceived....just reading all the comments, made a comment, and asked a question. Question keeps getting diverted and ignored. Don't over think it anymore then you already have.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 9/22/2018 8:51pm
9/22/2018 8:51pm
According to sone If the suzuki had a red front fender it would handle better. Yzs too. Ktms too. Husky too. Kawi too.
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malachi177
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malachi177 9/22/2018 8:54pm
9/22/2018 8:54pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2018 8:58pm
MPJC wrote:
I rode a friend's RMZ 450 and loved it. He's similar in age, weight, and ability (ok, he's faster than me) and I felt instantly comfortable...
I rode a friend's RMZ 450 and loved it. He's similar in age, weight, and ability (ok, he's faster than me) and I felt instantly comfortable on the bike. I believe it was an 11, with revalved suspension and Yosh exhaust. I later had a chance to ride a 2016 bike and wasn't comfortable at all. I get the impression that these bikes are very sensitive to setup. The 16 wanted to turn too sharp, and wasn't comfortable in long, sweeping corners - felt really sketchy. To be fair, I rode both bikes on a sand track, and the 16 didn't have sand tires and the 11 did. It felt like the chassis wanted to turn sharp in a way that exceeded the front wheel grip, if that makes any sense. And it doesn't help that the 16 forks didn't feel that great. But given my experience on the 11, I'm sure I could set up an RMZ to feel awesome - though maybe not with the 16 stock forks. That 11 RMZ just felt so perfectly planted in the corners that it was almost unbelievable.

I love the way my KTMs handle but I can sure see the appeal of a well set up RMZ. Would others agree that the Suzukis are more sensitive to setup than other bikes? I can ride a KTM that isn't set up particularly well for me and still be fairly comfortable. I can't say the same about an RMZ, from the little experience I have.
The RMZ's like the forks flush with the triple clamps and having the steering stem cranked down. That eliminates pretty much any head shake. They also like a tad more rear sag then normal. 108 works great.


Did the KTM ride day at our track a few weeks ago. Rode the '19 250, stock 350, and the 350 with cone valve forks, and the traxx shock. That upgraded 350 was a lot of fun to ride.
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H4L
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H4L 9/22/2018 9:05pm
9/22/2018 9:05pm Edited Date/Time 9/23/2018 8:46pm
malachi177 wrote:
The Honda doesn't turn as well as the Zook.
I should believe this because this member says so.. Whistling .
CASH476
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CASH476 9/23/2018 5:29pm
9/23/2018 5:29pm
malachi177 wrote:
The Honda doesn't turn as well as the Zook.
H4L wrote:
I should believe this because this member says so.. Whistling .
You should ride an RMZ before you comment Wink
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H4L
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H4L 9/23/2018 5:50pm
9/23/2018 5:50pm
CASH476 wrote:
You should ride an RMZ before you comment Wink
I have... Cool

You should read the title before you comment...
It's day # 2 - move on..
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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 9/23/2018 6:13pm
9/23/2018 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 9/23/2018 7:57pm
So I've been lucky enough to be able to ride the complete 18 mx range. and being able to do a handful of laps on each bike really does blow you away.
I'm completely against the reviews you see online and in magz.

I've been a kawi guy for the past few years and always will be..

How ever, overall... The 18 CRF was my pick of the bunch. How ever the new RMZ was my 2nd pick. with all the hate towards them.. the ugly look and so much bad word about them.
the bike out handled every other bike. power was mellow, but still pulled and felt so strong. you could get on the gas so much quicker then any other bike. i was truly blown away and loved it. Its a bike that you can get on and just feel comfortable on it straight away.

Won't go into details of the other bikes as its not related.
But Suzuki's are by far the most underrated bike on the market.


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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/23/2018 8:44pm
9/23/2018 8:44pm
I’ve been involved in shootouts for a few years and ride various brands quite a bit throughout the year after that. The Suzuki 450s do turn extremely well & have a reputation for doing so.

After last year’s shootout, I chose to spend time working on the Suzuki & really wanted a shot at figuring out that rear shock. During the last 12 months, I’ve learned that the RM-Z is an amazing chassis.

Once I got the shock dialed in with help from Factory Connection, I really went to work on finding some different set-ups for an assortment of tracks. Again, the RM-Z chassis proved to be easy to adjust and always retained it's great turning prowess.


Here it is last spring at the Mammoth qualifier where it handled the seriously rutted turns at the Oatfield with ease. The bike was still stock with only a pipe and really good fuel. By this point (around 45 hours) I’d raised the forks in the clamps for right situations and the bike handled like a 250F in the turns.

For Mammoth, I’d had Factory Connection perform their magic...the bike handled amazing.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/24/2018 12:34am
9/24/2018 12:34am
malachi177 wrote:
The Honda doesn't turn as well as the Zook.
H4L wrote:
My experience tells me otherwise...
Same with mine, the newer Hondas are VERY good turning bikes...like it or not
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JFerry
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JFerry 9/24/2018 12:56am
9/24/2018 12:56am
In my RM250 you have to set your SAG well. If not that thing oversteer so much that it is not fun anymore. In the newer RMZ models, I don´t know, but these bikes were very sensitive to settings.
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