Why no EBV in MXGP...why no PED positives?

8/20/2019 7:10pm
plowboy wrote:
Ok, I'm old but isn't EBV the newish medical term for what we used to call mononucleosis? Caused by a weakened immune system due to stress...
Ok, I'm old but isn't EBV the newish medical term for what we used to call mononucleosis? Caused by a weakened immune system due to stress (physical or mental). Somebody clue me. If I'm on the right track...I'm amazed more riders aren't diagnosed. The physical exertion of training and racing plus mental pressure to perform is an enormous strain on the body.

I cannot imagine that GP riders are immune. I can't even imagine that that they have a medical regimen that prevents or cures EBV (that's too big to keep secret).

If, and I emphasize IF, WADA were playing favorites, and it was proven...that would be the end for them. Not just for moto but everything they are affiliated with.
EBV is mono, you are correct. If you think that WADA has never played favorites or swept things under the rug, well you would be wrong. See Russian doping, see Lance era tests being hidden etc.
8/20/2019 7:29pm
Depends on the PED, but yes. The main cause of EBV is stress, and the treatment is hydration. Do you think IV bags (illegal per WADA)...
Depends on the PED, but yes. The main cause of EBV is stress, and the treatment is hydration. Do you think IV bags (illegal per WADA) help hydrate? Then yes PEDs help prevent EBV. I have had EBV and it’s no joke, literally wrecked me for a while.
hamncheeze wrote:
You are really over-simplifying things here Chris. Just staying hydrated will not stave off EBV. The immune system is a lot more complicated than proper hydration...
You are really over-simplifying things here Chris. Just staying hydrated will not stave off EBV. The immune system is a lot more complicated than proper hydration, a person's response to physical stress is a combination of so many factors, so much so that no 2 people have exactly the same response.

Also, when people talk about dehydration in Moto, we are not talking about what the medical community considers dehydration. The rider races 35 minutes, it's hot AF but afterwards he is immediately re-hydrating. Riders might get heat exhaustion, even heat stroke, but are they clinically dehydrated? Unlikely. Moderate dehydration is a 10% loss of body mass. So for say Chase Sexton at WW Ranch, he had to lose 15-16 lbs in that moto. I guess we don't know for sure, but I'm doubting it. It's not like he was in Iraq in combat for 8 hours....
You are correct, there are many factors including proper hydration and my answer completely oversimplified EBV. I do believe there are some PED’s that help recovery and that in turn helps prevent EBV from becoming active. I would defer to medical professionals on this one though.
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2019 8:12pm
Surprised no one has mentioned a string of MXoN wins by the country that hosts the Tour, oh wait..nothing to see here
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hamncheeze
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8/20/2019 8:40pm
Surprised no one has mentioned a string of MXoN wins by the country that hosts the Tour, oh wait..nothing to see here
You mean the same country whose riders in that Tour have had almost nothing to be happy about since 1985? Or at least since 1997? Call the French many things, but cycling in France by French racers cleaned up way, way earlier than any other country.

The French are not afraid to arrest someone and jail them on suspicion alone. They did this post-Festina, with riders, managers and doctors being locked up. That shit resonated within French sport, look up Napoleonic Code and "presumption of guilt" to understand.
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The Shop

8/20/2019 11:16pm
scott_nz wrote:
I think that the supplement industry has more to do with the positive tests in the USA , most European sports run wada type testing where...
I think that the supplement industry has more to do with the positive tests in the USA , most European sports run wada type testing where only the Olympic sports do in the states
This would be my guess. E.g. Heaps of factories that make "clean" supplements are also making not "clean" supplements and cross contamination is occurring. In the US this is possibly more common as some major sports don't follow the WADA framework.
Having been off gluten for 15+ years, I am familiar with cross contamination in food processing.
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Ray_MXS
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8/21/2019 12:26am
There is just as much EBV and PED positives in the MXGP as in the US. You just dont pay the same amount of attention to it as your own series, and it doesnt get the same media coverage or forum clicks.

MXGP hasnt had a big name testing positive for a while now, but in the early 2000s they were way to common with big names like Bartolini, Federici, Coppins etc . Before Stewart, we didnt really hear anything at all about positive drug tests in the US.
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Ray_MXS
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8/21/2019 12:31am
Surprised no one has mentioned a string of MXoN wins by the country that hosts the Tour, oh wait..nothing to see here
I´m really intrigued what you mean by this seeing as France is the country that is having a "string of MXoN wins" but Youthstream, who runs the MXGP series, and Giuseppe Longo, is Italian.

But I´m sure you have some insights to share.
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scott_nz
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8/21/2019 12:51am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 12:52am
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know...
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know if or who in MXGP uses PED’s but I would bet a large amount of money guys are using stuff. My insinuation was that the FIM and WADA appear to look the other way when that series is concerned. No facts, just chat room speculation, much like how all USA fuel was tested at Des Nations.

If you don’t think any GP riders use PED’s, I also have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also Santa Claus, Easter bunny and Tooth Fairy are all imaginary. Hopefully this dose of reality doesn’t crush your spirit, have a good day.
i would test the USA teams bikes guys fuel as well, (incl other nations riders on those teams) as they run a different spec fuel, and it would be assumed that some of the teams would not bother,

and the FIM has checked riders in the world championships much longer than anyone in the states has, in-fact, drug testing only came into the US when FIM got involved in SX after the AMA/JAM Sports Fiasco, the AMA MX nationals took a while later before they came onboard with testing,

i agree the FIM has been hopeless with drug follow ups and length of time it takes to issue penalties, , but it has been on everyone incl Road racers, not just US supercross riders, the insinuation by some US based reporter that its an ANTI US thing has not basis IMO,
also, the fact that FIM uses WADA and the olympic model and the long penalties is a huge issue too IMO, but one that is unlikely to change either,

and PS, most of the 1st world has free speech, and everyone that posts on a MX forum would,
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8/21/2019 12:54am
I need to come up with a vital Bingo card...

BINGO! I hit on the row of, Tomac vs Herlings, US vs Mxgp, Stewart retirement, and creepy dude cleaning boots! I win!!!
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themrtoad
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8/21/2019 1:30am
Ray_MXS wrote:
There is just as much EBV and PED positives in the MXGP as in the US. You just dont pay the same amount of attention to...
There is just as much EBV and PED positives in the MXGP as in the US. You just dont pay the same amount of attention to it as your own series, and it doesnt get the same media coverage or forum clicks.

MXGP hasnt had a big name testing positive for a while now, but in the early 2000s they were way to common with big names like Bartolini, Federici, Coppins etc . Before Stewart, we didnt really hear anything at all about positive drug tests in the US.
Maybe they weren’t testing at all in the US back than?
Ray_MXS
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8/21/2019 1:35am
Ray_MXS wrote:
There is just as much EBV and PED positives in the MXGP as in the US. You just dont pay the same amount of attention to...
There is just as much EBV and PED positives in the MXGP as in the US. You just dont pay the same amount of attention to it as your own series, and it doesnt get the same media coverage or forum clicks.

MXGP hasnt had a big name testing positive for a while now, but in the early 2000s they were way to common with big names like Bartolini, Federici, Coppins etc . Before Stewart, we didnt really hear anything at all about positive drug tests in the US.
themrtoad wrote:
Maybe they weren’t testing at all in the US back than?
That is quite possible. Ifaik WADA came in to the picture only when FIM got involved but I assumed that USADA would cover supercross as well before then, just like they do outdoors right?
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8/21/2019 6:39am
I need to come up with a vital Bingo card... BINGO! I hit on the row of, Tomac vs Herlings, US vs Mxgp, Stewart retirement, and...
I need to come up with a vital Bingo card...

BINGO! I hit on the row of, Tomac vs Herlings, US vs Mxgp, Stewart retirement, and creepy dude cleaning boots! I win!!!
It's been done
bsharkey
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8/21/2019 7:12am
500guy wrote:
Look up MXGP and FIM corruption for answer. What makes SX and MX in America look bad = Good What makes MXGP look bad = Never...
Look up MXGP and FIM corruption for answer.

What makes SX and MX in America look bad = Good

What makes MXGP look bad = Never happened.
What he said. PED’s provide a health boost that prevents and treats EBV. Also those guys get more weeks off to rest.
Exactly their outdoors spans 7 months
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500guy
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8/21/2019 7:34am
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross?

In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's hasn't tested bad for something unless they just are not testing.
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ATKpilot99
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8/21/2019 7:38am
500guy wrote:
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross? In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's...
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross?

In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's hasn't tested bad for something unless they just are not testing.
The most recent I can think of is Andrea Bartolini getting popped for I think an anabolic steroid ? Oh and Gert Van dorn for weed haha.
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t_baum88
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8/21/2019 7:49am
500guy wrote:
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross? In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's...
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross?

In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's hasn't tested bad for something unless they just are not testing.
They are just smarter.
RG1
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8/21/2019 8:22am
500guy wrote:
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross? In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's...
I'm curious is the WADA agreement for MXGP the same as for USA Supercross?

In my mind there is just no way someone in the GP's hasn't tested bad for something unless they just are not testing.
Why? There’s only 2 riders out of all those tested in the US that have tested positive. That’s a pretty low percentage. Are all the other guys who haven’t been caught not been tested either?
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DonM
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8/21/2019 8:40am
scott_nz wrote:
i would test the USA teams bikes guys fuel as well, (incl other nations riders on those teams) as they run a different spec fuel, and...
i would test the USA teams bikes guys fuel as well, (incl other nations riders on those teams) as they run a different spec fuel, and it would be assumed that some of the teams would not bother,

and the FIM has checked riders in the world championships much longer than anyone in the states has, in-fact, drug testing only came into the US when FIM got involved in SX after the AMA/JAM Sports Fiasco, the AMA MX nationals took a while later before they came onboard with testing,

i agree the FIM has been hopeless with drug follow ups and length of time it takes to issue penalties, , but it has been on everyone incl Road racers, not just US supercross riders, the insinuation by some US based reporter that its an ANTI US thing has not basis IMO,
also, the fact that FIM uses WADA and the olympic model and the long penalties is a huge issue too IMO, but one that is unlikely to change either,

and PS, most of the 1st world has free speech, and everyone that posts on a MX forum would,
The fuel tests are supposed to be random...to have all three US team bikes tested when no other country tested had more than one bike...that doesn't appear to be random...
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Barrett57
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8/21/2019 8:52am
DonM wrote:
The fuel tests are supposed to be random...to have all three US team bikes tested when no other country tested had more than one bike...that doesn't...
The fuel tests are supposed to be random...to have all three US team bikes tested when no other country tested had more than one bike...that doesn't appear to be random...
Probably trying to work out why they were going so slow the whole weekend 😂
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Nighttrain
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8/21/2019 9:35am
Without a biological passport type format the current PED tests are more like IQ tests. Anyone paying attention, especially professional trainers with medical “advisors”, has many PED program options to utilize and never be caught.
Casting
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8/21/2019 9:49am
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know...
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know if or who in MXGP uses PED’s but I would bet a large amount of money guys are using stuff. My insinuation was that the FIM and WADA appear to look the other way when that series is concerned. No facts, just chat room speculation, much like how all USA fuel was tested at Des Nations.

If you don’t think any GP riders use PED’s, I also have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also Santa Claus, Easter bunny and Tooth Fairy are all imaginary. Hopefully this dose of reality doesn’t crush your spirit, have a good day.
Wow, Chris, are you honestly so ignorant that you are invoking the first amendment without even knowing how it works?

The First amendment applies to government censorship of speech, it holds no sway over what can or cannot be said on an internet message board.

At least you do a good job of showing people your level of education so that people can take your opinions with a grain of salt.

How embarrassing.
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8/21/2019 9:51am
Surprised no one has mentioned a string of MXoN wins by the country that hosts the Tour, oh wait..nothing to see here
hamncheeze wrote:
You mean the same country whose riders in that Tour have had almost nothing to be happy about since 1985? Or at least since 1997? Call...
You mean the same country whose riders in that Tour have had almost nothing to be happy about since 1985? Or at least since 1997? Call the French many things, but cycling in France by French racers cleaned up way, way earlier than any other country.

The French are not afraid to arrest someone and jail them on suspicion alone. They did this post-Festina, with riders, managers and doctors being locked up. That shit resonated within French sport, look up Napoleonic Code and "presumption of guilt" to understand.
Cleaned up before everyone else? Got any more jokes over there?
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8/21/2019 9:55am
philG wrote:
What credibility you ever had , just went out of the fucking window. 'Those Guys' do 20 2 day GP's 6 of which are flyaways, plus...
What credibility you ever had , just went out of the fucking window.

'Those Guys' do 20 2 day GP's 6 of which are flyaways, plus at least 1 , maybe 2 , and possibly 3 national championships plus the preseason races. Some of them do the Euro SX races too.

What none of them do , is flog themselves within an inch of their life every day because ' thats what Aldons guys do' , chasing a level of fitness that leaves them teetering on the edge of disaster.
You're constantly taking jabs at the American series, or the riders. That, or paying them a backhanded compliment. So why are you getting so offended? Between 17 rounds of supercross, and 24 motos outdoors with very little time off, the schedule is much more intense that what the GP guys do.
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Natester551v
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8/21/2019 10:02am
I think the real controversy here is not whether some riders (worldwide) are doping, but whether MXGP is somehow getting a free pass compared to the US Nationals and SX. I have no idea; the only thing I've heard that remotely hints at that being the case is how the Americans were all tested at the MXoN. Given that we don't have a lot of insight into how names are "randomly" drawn, it's difficult to say that was a biased selection or not.

Throwing shade on the riders of MXGP is lame - they're just as gnarly (and arguably faster in outdoors) as the US-based guys, and they race just as much with their domestic series (in between MXGP). Luongo is a scumbag, but I've not seen any reputable sources with evidence that he is somehow influencing WADA testing over there.

That being said, the conjecture I've heard about masking drugs and PED tech being several generations ahead of the enforcement bodies' ability to detect and enforce is something to think about. If you've got millions of dollars, euros, etc. at stake then there is an obvious incentive to gain an edge.

I just don't think pointing to a specific series or rider(s) is cool without any evidence.
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8/21/2019 10:06am
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know...
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know if or who in MXGP uses PED’s but I would bet a large amount of money guys are using stuff. My insinuation was that the FIM and WADA appear to look the other way when that series is concerned. No facts, just chat room speculation, much like how all USA fuel was tested at Des Nations.

If you don’t think any GP riders use PED’s, I also have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also Santa Claus, Easter bunny and Tooth Fairy are all imaginary. Hopefully this dose of reality doesn’t crush your spirit, have a good day.
Casting wrote:
Wow, Chris, are you honestly so ignorant that you are invoking the first amendment without even knowing how it works? The First amendment applies to government...
Wow, Chris, are you honestly so ignorant that you are invoking the first amendment without even knowing how it works?

The First amendment applies to government censorship of speech, it holds no sway over what can or cannot be said on an internet message board.

At least you do a good job of showing people your level of education so that people can take your opinions with a grain of salt.

How embarrassing.
You must be unaware that in many parts of the world including Europe you can find yourself in legal trouble for posting offensive content online. Simple shit like saying there's only 2 genders.


Free speech doesn't exist in other countries as it does here.
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Hudd_421
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8/21/2019 10:06am
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know...
I can write whatever I want! I am in the USA where we have freedom of speech. Athletes use PEDs, that’s a fact. I don’t know if or who in MXGP uses PED’s but I would bet a large amount of money guys are using stuff. My insinuation was that the FIM and WADA appear to look the other way when that series is concerned. No facts, just chat room speculation, much like how all USA fuel was tested at Des Nations.

If you don’t think any GP riders use PED’s, I also have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also Santa Claus, Easter bunny and Tooth Fairy are all imaginary. Hopefully this dose of reality doesn’t crush your spirit, have a good day.
Casting wrote:
Wow, Chris, are you honestly so ignorant that you are invoking the first amendment without even knowing how it works? The First amendment applies to government...
Wow, Chris, are you honestly so ignorant that you are invoking the first amendment without even knowing how it works?

The First amendment applies to government censorship of speech, it holds no sway over what can or cannot be said on an internet message board.

At least you do a good job of showing people your level of education so that people can take your opinions with a grain of salt.

How embarrassing.
If you think our sport (US and EU) is 100% clean, you're a fool.
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Casting
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8/21/2019 10:14am
Hudd_421 wrote:
If you think our sport (US and EU) is 100% clean, you're a fool.
At no point in my post did I remark on the prevalence of performance enhancing drugs in the sport. You're reading into things too much.

My post was about Chris's understanding of the First Amendment and how this is a reflection of how much research goes into the things he says: not much.

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Ray_MXS
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8/21/2019 10:38am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 10:52am
You're constantly taking jabs at the American series, or the riders. That, or paying them a backhanded compliment. So why are you getting so offended? Between...
You're constantly taking jabs at the American series, or the riders. That, or paying them a backhanded compliment. So why are you getting so offended? Between 17 rounds of supercross, and 24 motos outdoors with very little time off, the schedule is much more intense that what the GP guys do.
Ok let's put this stupid argument that you guys always bring up to rest.

US season:
17 supercross + 12 nationals =
29 race days
47 motos/main events

GP racers season: (using Herlings as an example)
20 GPs + 4 Dutch Masters + 3 Italian Championships =
47 race days
64 motos

If you take Nagl instead, you could also add in another 5-7 days and 10-12 motos to that to do the German ADAC series too, just as an example.

Hell, I'm probably missing a whole bunch of races too. I'm sure they probably do the Belgian series when they can too.
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Barrett57
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8/21/2019 10:52am
You must be unaware that in many parts of the world including Europe you can find yourself in legal trouble for posting offensive content online. Simple...
You must be unaware that in many parts of the world including Europe you can find yourself in legal trouble for posting offensive content online. Simple shit like saying there's only 2 genders.


Free speech doesn't exist in other countries as it does here.
Boris Johnson is a pig shagging toff who looks like he's combed his hair with a toffee apple. Suppose I'll have the rozzers at my door within half an hour to put me in Broadmoor for that.
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hamncheeze
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8/21/2019 11:12am
Surprised no one has mentioned a string of MXoN wins by the country that hosts the Tour, oh wait..nothing to see here
hamncheeze wrote:
You mean the same country whose riders in that Tour have had almost nothing to be happy about since 1985? Or at least since 1997? Call...
You mean the same country whose riders in that Tour have had almost nothing to be happy about since 1985? Or at least since 1997? Call the French many things, but cycling in France by French racers cleaned up way, way earlier than any other country.

The French are not afraid to arrest someone and jail them on suspicion alone. They did this post-Festina, with riders, managers and doctors being locked up. That shit resonated within French sport, look up Napoleonic Code and "presumption of guilt" to understand.
Cleaned up before everyone else? Got any more jokes over there?
Research the history of French cycling if you think I'm lying. It's well known that after 1997's raids the French peloton started to clean itself up, such that young riders coming up through U23 were doing it clean. By the mid-00s the French riders were getting their asses handed to them left and right, because countries like Spain, Italy and all the Americans living in Spain, plus the Eastern bloc riders were still full gas. It took another reckoning or two with Operacion Puerto and the bio-passport to shift toward a cleaner professional cycling. Is it 100% clean, please....I am no fool.

Anyway, my point is that there is zero evidence to cast any doping suspicion toward the run of French MXoN wins. If we do that then the USA has to be the biggest PED users with their streaks from 1981-93 and 2005-2011.
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