Why dropping 2 races/scoring on 22 Motos helps improve the Nationals

twotwosix
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Edited Date/Time 6/21/2017 4:20am
I think we should allow the Outdoor National Championship to be scored off a riders 22 best Moto scores. Each rider should be allowed to drop their 2 worst Moto scores during the season.

It is done that way in other sports and I think it would benefit Moto in two big ways:

#1: Injuries. Motocross is a dangerous sport. Riders get hurt often and they inevitably end up having to ride injured, which is neither advisable or safe. While we cannot avoid this, allowing the two Moto scores to be dropped (one full round if needed) would allow an injured rider to sit out a weekend to heal. Also, they could time the missed round before or after a break to allow a smaller, nagging injury to properly heal. (Concussions, Sprains, Small fractures, etc.) This would really help us take concussions more seriously and not push riders to come back too early. It would 100% make the sport a bit safer. (This would be prime for Musquin's knee right now as well as Plessinger's junk or Barcia's concussion)

#2: Mechanical failures. Outdoor rounds take their toll on these machines. Dropping rounds would allow a rider to not be penalized due to a bike or a mechanic's failure. Tomac could certainly use a dropped round due to that random rock hitting his master cylinder. Pro Circuit had a bad round where the motors let go. If AC or Savagty loses the title by 25 points, are they a worse rider than the guy they get beat by? It would truly become a rider's championship and the best rider would have the most points at the end. Star Yamaha had some issues last year that cost the Martin's and Webb some valuable points. I would think the OEMs would be in favor of this. We could institute a Constructors (Manufacturers) Championship as well where we tally the total points scored by a Manufacturer across all riders in every round. That would encourage top teams to keep a bigger roster and avoid a situation where a team like Factory Yamaha goes racing Outdoors with 1 guy (Webb) and would also improve contingency dollars from the OEMs for privateers and additional support to the 15-20th place riders, as their points would have a bit of significance.

***(Not very significant) #3, Two less mandatory rounds for the rider who complain about too many races on the schedule.
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jonesaustin
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6/19/2017 10:33am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2017 10:35am
Totally agree. I've seen several people on Vital miss the point and mistake this for gifting riders, aka the "everyone gets a ribbon" mentality. How the two equate in one's mind is an unknown, though here's one vote to second your proposal.
MXerDW
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6/19/2017 10:52am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2017 11:34am
The racers line up for 24 motos so they all should count for the Championship!

Age 52
bsharkey
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6/19/2017 10:54am
If they had a longer race season like the GPS I could see doing something like this. Mainly I feel this way because of Mechanicals but that's about it I think we've seen more mechanical failures this year then we ever have this early in the season
BobPA
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6/19/2017 11:07am
MXerDW wrote:
The racers line up for 24 motos so they all should count for the Championship!

Age 52
This

The Shop

Robgvx
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6/19/2017 11:12am
MXerDW wrote:
The racers line up for 24 motos so they all should count for the Championship!

Age 52
BobPA wrote:
This
This...

...only pops up when someone's favourite rider can't keep it going consistently...
MR. X
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6/19/2017 11:17am
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those 2 zero scoring races. Please explain what I'm missing .
BobPA
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6/19/2017 11:30am
MR. X wrote:
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those...
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those 2 zero scoring races. Please explain what I'm missing .
Are you serious or trolling?
MXerDW
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6/19/2017 11:33am
It would interesting to see the person's age below their post. I think we would see no.one under 35 thinks dropping 2 motos is good for the Championship.

So please go back edit your post with your age.
MR. X
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6/19/2017 11:35am
MR. X wrote:
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those...
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those 2 zero scoring races. Please explain what I'm missing .
BobPA wrote:
Are you serious or trolling?
Asking for a friend...
mattmatt300
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6/19/2017 11:50am
Not this shit again. Every time Tomac isn't in the points lead after a weekend this nonsense comes up. They sign up for 24 races. They show up for 24 races. They should be scored for 24 races. It's already a level playing field. No need to change anything.
cpyz300
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6/19/2017 11:57am
I vote for dropping a moto or two. It's a huge bummer for privateers who might score higher without as many mechanical dnfs or even guys like the PC Kawi team having their issues on factory equipment.

We already do it in MXDN, why not all championship series?
TXDirt
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6/19/2017 12:09pm
MR. X wrote:
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those...
Every time this come up I ask how dropping 2 worst races would help anything , you scored zero points ,we're gonna let you drop those 2 zero scoring races. Please explain what I'm missing .
BobPA wrote:
Are you serious or trolling?
MR. X wrote:
Asking for a friend...
I am also confused how this would help. Lets say your worst finish in two motos was 10th place. So if you drop those motos how exactly are the points scored then? Do you subtract the points? Do you add 25 points? I really do not understand. If you have a DNF one moto and you drop that moto, what points are supposed to be added or subtracted from the championship scores?
jbomx363
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6/19/2017 12:10pm
Geezus.. enough BS already.

You sucked 2 races.... OWN IT. LOL

Sounds like soccer participation trophys for all mentality.
tcallahan707
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6/19/2017 12:13pm
BobPA wrote:
Are you serious or trolling?
MR. X wrote:
Asking for a friend...
TXDirt wrote:
I am also confused how this would help. Lets say your worst finish in two motos was 10th place. So if you drop those motos how...
I am also confused how this would help. Lets say your worst finish in two motos was 10th place. So if you drop those motos how exactly are the points scored then? Do you subtract the points? Do you add 25 points? I really do not understand. If you have a DNF one moto and you drop that moto, what points are supposed to be added or subtracted from the championship scores?
You add up your best 22 scores.
TXDirt
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6/19/2017 12:41pm Edited Date/Time 6/19/2017 12:49pm
MR. X wrote:
Asking for a friend...
TXDirt wrote:
I am also confused how this would help. Lets say your worst finish in two motos was 10th place. So if you drop those motos how...
I am also confused how this would help. Lets say your worst finish in two motos was 10th place. So if you drop those motos how exactly are the points scored then? Do you subtract the points? Do you add 25 points? I really do not understand. If you have a DNF one moto and you drop that moto, what points are supposed to be added or subtracted from the championship scores?
You add up your best 22 scores.
Sure, but the points are awarded by position right? Yes. So if your worst score is a 5th, which is 16 points for that moto, you are going to subtract 16 points from that riders overall scores then? And if another rider has a DNF and scores zero points you are going to subtract zero points from his overall score?

Do you see the problem?

You can't just drop the worst motos because we do not tally up finishing positions. We score overall championships based on points awarded. Not by finish position. If we did it by finish position then yes, you could drop your worst two and just score the 22 motos. But we work on a points based system so you can't simply just drop your two worst motos and only score 22 motos.

Edit:

Just to add, because we work on a points based system, a scenario exists where Rider A can win 11 overalls and have one second overall and lose the championship to rider B who has 1 overall and 11 second overalls.
twotwosix
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6/19/2017 12:44pm
Not this shit again. Every time Tomac isn't in the points lead after a weekend this nonsense comes up. They sign up for 24 races. They...
Not this shit again. Every time Tomac isn't in the points lead after a weekend this nonsense comes up. They sign up for 24 races. They show up for 24 races. They should be scored for 24 races. It's already a level playing field. No need to change anything.
Haha I actually don't care about who is or isn't winning. I've raced since I was 4 and If I had my choice McGrath or Windham would be winning! I'm a fan no matter who's winning.

Carmichael and Stewart have special places in my eyes for being the only men to go 24-0 through the Nationals.

Having said that, you think the two points I brought up aren't valid? I'm not saying it's bad the way it is, just think the proposed format helps improve those two areas.
Acidreamer
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6/19/2017 12:50pm
if you drop races then the most consistent rider is still going to win... instead of 12 rounds youre counting 10. Its fixing something thats not broken. Show up and perform or dont. I wish i could drop writeups at work but that aint gonna happenceither
MudPup545
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6/19/2017 12:55pm
A local track owner here in Michigan tried this. An independent, non AMA track. It was an 8 race series and each rider was allowed a throw away. My kid made all 8, finished all 16 motos. At season end his throw away was I think 8 or 9 points (been a couple years so I might be off). He lost his class overall 1st place to a kid that missed 1 race. His throw away was 0. My kid lost by 3 points because he was forced to throw out points he earned and the other kid threw out nothing. It screws the riders that show up. So no, I don't like the idea.
twotwosix
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6/19/2017 12:58pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Geezus.. enough BS already.

You sucked 2 races.... OWN IT. LOL

Sounds like soccer participation trophys for all mentality.
Gotta be forward thinking and open to change if you want the sport to keep growing. Moto will always be hardcore, we couldn't take that aspect away if we wanted to.

I would bet 39 out of the 40 riders on the gate would like this idea.
twotwosix
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6/19/2017 1:02pm
Acidreamer wrote:
if you drop races then the most consistent rider is still going to win... instead of 12 rounds youre counting 10. Its fixing something thats not...
if you drop races then the most consistent rider is still going to win... instead of 12 rounds youre counting 10. Its fixing something thats not broken. Show up and perform or dont. I wish i could drop writeups at work but that aint gonna happenceither
So if the end result is the same, but it results in a safer sport, is that not a good thing?
Electro21
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6/19/2017 1:03pm
The 20-40 riders should get participation trophies too.

No they shouldn't drop any scores.

39
twotwosix
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6/19/2017 1:05pm
MudPup545 wrote:
A local track owner here in Michigan tried this. An independent, non AMA track. It was an 8 race series and each rider was allowed a...
A local track owner here in Michigan tried this. An independent, non AMA track. It was an 8 race series and each rider was allowed a throw away. My kid made all 8, finished all 16 motos. At season end his throw away was I think 8 or 9 points (been a couple years so I might be off). He lost his class overall 1st place to a kid that missed 1 race. His throw away was 0. My kid lost by 3 points because he was forced to throw out points he earned and the other kid threw out nothing. It screws the riders that show up. So no, I don't like the idea.
I hear you, and I've raced in a series here that had the same thing. I've been a part of it in a local 250B championship. At a local level, it only complicated things. I think the difference is that this is a Professional 24 race series, not 8. And these guys race over 30 weekends a year. Throw aways will help allow time off due to injury.
twotwosix
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6/19/2017 1:10pm
Electro21 wrote:
The 20-40 riders should get participation trophies too.

No they shouldn't drop any scores.

39
TXDirt
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6/19/2017 1:12pm
Here is a picture if you drop 2 motos. It actually hurts rider A by having to drop motos. Not help him in any way!! Rider B gets helped at the expense of Rider A. Because dropping two motos did not change Rider B's overall points scored. But he gets helped by rider A being penalized.



RandyS
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6/19/2017 1:20pm
I have an idea, how about instead of dropping scores everyone gets to use their best 22 moto scores.
lostboy819
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6/19/2017 1:21pm
I have always been against dropping races and glad that they have never changed it so that you get a couple throwaways . You don't win championships on your good days, you win then on your bad days.
Acidreamer
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6/19/2017 1:24pm
Acidreamer wrote:
if you drop races then the most consistent rider is still going to win... instead of 12 rounds youre counting 10. Its fixing something thats not...
if you drop races then the most consistent rider is still going to win... instead of 12 rounds youre counting 10. Its fixing something thats not broken. Show up and perform or dont. I wish i could drop writeups at work but that aint gonna happenceither
twotwosix wrote:
So if the end result is the same, but it results in a safer sport, is that not a good thing?
How does throwing away a race after the entire series make moto safer? You still have to win races by riding balls out. This entire thing is trying to cater to less skilled people.
mxtech1
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6/19/2017 1:24pm
I have always felt it would be better if they just awarded points all the way through to 40th position.

Not only would this really give the privateers extra motivation to dice it up for back-half racing, it would also help out the Contender who has a bad day/moto and is in salvage mode.

Have most of you really though how big of a nut kick it must be to place 21st overall and not receive a single dam point for a grueling weekend's work? I mean seriously....come on...
Johnny Depp
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6/19/2017 1:27pm
Rider A wins. The 50 point gap came down to a 32 point gap.

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