Why doesn't anyone ever ask a series Sponsor to put money into the prize fund ?

500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 1:28pm
That Jager FMX thread got me thinking.

Why didn't they ask them to pump the prize money up ?
|
Adam43
Posts
3184
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
12/17/2009 7:04am
Feld won't give more purse when all the riders are going to show up to put on the same show anyway.
DL
Posts
2614
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA US
12/17/2009 7:16am
Adam43 wrote:
Feld won't give more purse when all the riders are going to show up to put on the same show anyway.
Bingo.... it's up to Feld/promoter to make the purses. They could divde up the income and spin it anyway they want from said sponsor.
Trip
Posts
2255
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
CA US
12/17/2009 8:14am
Speaking of Feld, anyone else notice there are no cheap tickets this year?? Usually you can get kids tickets for 15 bucks.. Not this year... Maybe ticket sales will be slow and in the next week or so they will again do the radio staion promotion for 10 dollar tickets? We ususally take some kids to the at least one of the Anaheim rounds.... Cost for 4 tickets in nose bleed is 175.00.. So I don't think were going this year.. For one trip to sx we can almost get a year pass for 4 to Six Flags... So they raised ticket prices, but not the purse money?

The Shop

rjs
Posts
161
Joined
10/13/2009
Location
US
12/17/2009 8:28am
And the rider entry fees went up to $200 from $125 4 years ago, but not one penny more added to the payouts.
Shenzi
Posts
2584
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL US
Fantasy
1233rd
12/17/2009 8:39am
Title Sponsors like Jager or Monster by the real estate they are sold on. They purchase what's offered. They won't win sales or lose some for not taking the initiative to come up with better prize money.

the only way things would change is through a riders union, round tables with promoters and OEM reps, demands for change in some of the costs (high cost of license + credentials for pro riders and team members), demand for an increase in prize money.

For that you need a unified rider union. I don't see it happen. There will always be some benefiting in not following what most want.

Some will think an SX track is safe despite poor lighting and race while others will believe it's too dangerous and refuse to race. We've seen that in RR in the US, we've seen that in the past in FIM MX.

mom241
Posts
992
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Shawnee, OK US
12/17/2009 8:54am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2009 8:59am
Really? You don't think professional motocross/supercross racers have any sack?
SH_105
Posts
646
Joined
5/18/2008
Location
Murrieta, CA US
12/17/2009 9:00am
rjs wrote:
And the rider entry fees went up to $200 from $125 4 years ago, but not one penny more added to the payouts.
I actually had a brainstorm the other day along with a heated temper when this entire nuclear cowboy show came out.... Its owned by Feld, the only way this happened was they all stuck together. From the BIG names all the way down to the guys that arent household names!! They ALL are making money to PUT the show on, we PAY to be the show!! Can anyone esle see anything wrong?? I applaud the FMX guys for standing up and making sure everyone was taken care of all the way down the line. Its a sad state when RJS points out that entry fees have gone up but the purse is the same!! Take $2-3 off of every parking fee and the same off beer sold and a Dollar off ticket sales... Add that to the nightly payout and I feel that is fair!! Then everyone works together to get the fans in the stands to keep the stadiums full!! I have a couple ideas kicking around and maybe some how this series can be bought by someone making sure the sport stays healthy and alive by giving the riders what they are worth and not making the huge profit margins straight away.

SH
Nikhil
Posts
906
Joined
3/14/2009
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
12/17/2009 9:00am
How does this issue work in other sports like nascar? Is there something similar to a rider's union like Shenzi mentioned?
swizcore
Posts
4233
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Fenton, MI US
12/17/2009 9:13am
mom241 wrote:
Really? You don't think professional motocross/supercross racers have any sack?
Your right oldfart. The riders need to stand together and refuse to participate until a change is made. See how many tickets will sell when the gates are lined with Loretta's castaways. I bet a reformation wouldn't take long.
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
12/17/2009 9:15am
I think Concessions and Parking is owned by the Stadium. I'm not sure Feld gets a cut of that.

But some good ideas
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
12/17/2009 9:19am
mom241 wrote:
Really? You don't think professional motocross/supercross racers have any sack?
They got plenty of sack Mom,

there is just to big of a spread between the guy's making money and the ones borrowing money to try and make it.

Take for example how many riders chose to ride for basically free or incentives only this year. If the riders had an organization with some power like lets say the AMA you know Protecting riders rights they could make it very much different and better.
swizcore
Posts
4233
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Fenton, MI US
12/17/2009 9:20am
Thats a pretty far fetched idea for the AMA Jay.Blink
Devil1nNj
Posts
960
Joined
11/12/2006
Location
Hewitt, NJ US
12/17/2009 9:23am
This is a really good question. I would bet that from their side their of the position that the riders have outside people paying them to be at the race anyway, all they need to do is handle the venue side of things to give these riders an arena to compete in to earn their living,

In all honesty , I don't see how you could even really survive today, in this sport even if they paid you $1k for making the main and finishing last. It's only 17 races. Even if everything else was paid, and a rider didn't need to spend a penny to eat, travel, or worry about anything race related, you still could do better working par time at Home Depot, and have benefits!

I'm not discrediting your question by any means, because I completely agree that those riders, and their families who dedicated their lives to a non stick and ball sport, have a completely unfair disadvantage for loving and participating in a sport that is "non conventional" in America. You can not even make it pro, and get a free education to set you up with a career if you play, Lacrosse, for arguments sake.

I know I'll get slammed for this, but we need a "league". We need an organization that on a pro level gets these guys paid reasonably for being the best in the world at what they do.

I agree prize money should be increased, but I don't see how that will be a viable solution on the pro level. AM, yes. Pro, no. The prize money should just be an addition to the real income you make.
SH_105
Posts
646
Joined
5/18/2008
Location
Murrieta, CA US
12/17/2009 9:24am
Heres the deal, we need everyone from Stewart, Reed and Villo all the way down to Brocken Hoover Handle to stick together and form a unity before we are all taken seriously about the things we want and need!! There is a way to make sure that the top 20 in the lites make a minimum of $20,000 at years end and for the 450 guys to be making at least $30,000 when the end of year awrds are presented!! I know for a fact Feld is making a fair amount of cash off of the show we put on!! Otherwise they wouldnt be doing it!!

SH
swizcore
Posts
4233
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Fenton, MI US
12/17/2009 9:28am
Your right Hambone, it really seems that simple and it should be in actuality but I guess the top 5 or 10 or whoever just aren't concerned since its not really affecting them.
SH_105
Posts
646
Joined
5/18/2008
Location
Murrieta, CA US
12/17/2009 9:44am
Devil1nNj wrote:
This is a really good question. I would bet that from their side their of the position that the riders have outside people paying them to...
This is a really good question. I would bet that from their side their of the position that the riders have outside people paying them to be at the race anyway, all they need to do is handle the venue side of things to give these riders an arena to compete in to earn their living,

In all honesty , I don't see how you could even really survive today, in this sport even if they paid you $1k for making the main and finishing last. It's only 17 races. Even if everything else was paid, and a rider didn't need to spend a penny to eat, travel, or worry about anything race related, you still could do better working par time at Home Depot, and have benefits!

I'm not discrediting your question by any means, because I completely agree that those riders, and their families who dedicated their lives to a non stick and ball sport, have a completely unfair disadvantage for loving and participating in a sport that is "non conventional" in America. You can not even make it pro, and get a free education to set you up with a career if you play, Lacrosse, for arguments sake.

I know I'll get slammed for this, but we need a "league". We need an organization that on a pro level gets these guys paid reasonably for being the best in the world at what they do.

I agree prize money should be increased, but I don't see how that will be a viable solution on the pro level. AM, yes. Pro, no. The prize money should just be an addition to the real income you make.
Those are good points, the only complaint I have is that with the stick and ball sports is that they have NO entry fees to put the show on. No matter what way you look at it we PAY to be the show while Feld gets richer and richer off of the racing. They hold the lease rights to the stadiums and thats where I feel a big hang up is if we were to go a different direction. I dont think Feld should be shut out at all, they just need to realize that we ARE the show and that we need to be paid fairly by the amounts that they benefit from. You know for a fact the Moster Jam guys dont have entry fees!! So why do we??

SH
Deetsmx
Posts
880
Joined
4/21/2008
Location
Visalia, CA US
12/17/2009 9:47am
I think a lot of the problem lies with teams having sponsors and having to race. How can a team boycott a race without upsetting the sponsors? If it was just privateers out of the back of their truck, sure no problem not racing, but when sponsors pay money for the exposure and all of a sudden they decided not to race I think that would reflect badly on the teams. A lot of the riders are employees (even if they don't get paid) and I'm sure they don't want to upset their employer and risk losing their ride. The only way it would work is if all the teams banded together, but good luck with that.
Nikhil
Posts
906
Joined
3/14/2009
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
12/17/2009 9:47am
Why don't they lower the payout for the 1-5 spots and up the money for 15-20? The guys that are getting top 5 don't make their money from the race payout, they make it from their salaries. I'm sure most of them wouldn't mind taking a little cut in that area.
rich72
Posts
55
Joined
12/2/2009
Location
Murfreesboro, TN US
12/17/2009 9:53am
if the promoter took $2 from every ticket sell that would average out to around $3,500 per rider on the gate for the main event.that with fifnsh money and contengincy should help alot of priviters stay on the road.id rather see that exra ticket money go back into the sport we all hold near and dear to our heart's.then a new shitter and the gorgia dome.cause i shit at my hotel
nc_mx_kid
Posts
1486
Joined
3/6/2007
Location
Team Charlotte Motorsports, NC US
12/17/2009 9:53am
Adam43 wrote:
Feld won't give more purse when all the riders are going to show up to put on the same show anyway.
DL wrote:
Bingo.... it's up to Feld/promoter to make the purses. They could divde up the income and spin it anyway they want from said sponsor.
All about maximizing profits while creating an enteraining show for the spectators.
ck95
Posts
184
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Castaic, CA US
12/17/2009 10:00am
Nikhil wrote:
How does this issue work in other sports like nascar? Is there something similar to a rider's union like Shenzi mentioned?
nope, drivers tried it years ago, NASCAR blackballed the drivers that tried. NASCAR owns the show, they make it real clear to the drivers that the races will go on , with or without them.

But theres a ton more $$ in Cup racing, they're not scrapping for $400 for last place!!
FreshTopEnd
Posts
12476
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Fantasy
4231st
12/17/2009 10:00am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2009 10:05am
Solidarity is always the key. Especially when the show turns on a handful of guys who have a small window for big money.

Maybe it will get better when the factory team agendas go away.

Also, don't discount that the FMX guys also have leverage of creating other options for themselves. Motocross and Supercross riders really don't nearly so much.
ASH510
Posts
638
Joined
2/11/2009
Location
LA US
12/17/2009 10:01am
nothing will change untill the top barss are replaced with racer minded people.
or all the racers everyone of them stand as one and that is JS,CR,KW,DM etc
all the way down to #999 joe racer just wants to be in the show.

what needs to be setup is a union that is the only way to start the
CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN the riders have to start standing together.
A1 is the best place to do it no one races until the conditons are meet this should
have been started 35 yrs ago. other sports have players union why not this sport?
and it should be for MX,SX and AX all the same the ama should have nothing to
do with it in any way shape or form. the union should be just like any other union
health care plan, retirement plan and a rider recovery plan.
the union i was once a part of has a program if a member gets hurt house burns down
what ever they pass a hat around and everyone chips in what they can.
the guys who can really make a diffrence are the top guys JS,CR,RV,AS,KW,TF,JT$,SH105,GL,JLAW,TH,WH,MD,ML,IZZI,DW,RD,CP,JW and on and on.
but we all know they will not stand toghether and stand as one.
there needs to be a voice for the riders one with
BIG BALLS BOB HANNAH has a voice that people listen to and he has the BIG BALLS.
blah blah blah we can bitch and grip about this all day nite and for ever but until the step
is taken it wont help.i have an idea someone who is going to A1 that can get in the pits
and talk to the riders do a poll about if such a rider would stand up for a union.
if you could get JS and CR in and willing to take the stand to start on the road to the
NORTH AMERICAN OFFROAD MOTORCYCLE RACERS UNION or what the heck ever
they want to call it that is step one in the right direction.
mom241
Posts
992
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Shawnee, OK US
12/17/2009 10:03am
Deetsmx wrote:
I think a lot of the problem lies with teams having sponsors and having to race. How can a team boycott a race without upsetting the...
I think a lot of the problem lies with teams having sponsors and having to race. How can a team boycott a race without upsetting the sponsors? If it was just privateers out of the back of their truck, sure no problem not racing, but when sponsors pay money for the exposure and all of a sudden they decided not to race I think that would reflect badly on the teams. A lot of the riders are employees (even if they don't get paid) and I'm sure they don't want to upset their employer and risk losing their ride. The only way it would work is if all the teams banded together, but good luck with that.
That's the key, right there. Look, I'm not trying to speak for all the riders, but I may have a little insight. It's pretty easy to sit at home and call for a strike when it really doesn't affect you on a personal level.

I think that most top riders don't even give a second thought to the purse, so getting them to do something about it might be problematic. What needs addressed is how to help the struggling privateers. Also, there needs to be an available primary health insurance, a fund for injured riders, ... Lots to be fixed. I've always said that riders should be able to sell their merchandise at the races. The list goes on. I really don't think that your average racer (not privateers) is thinking at all about these issues. They are busy trying to win and secure their careers.

If riders went on strike, it would be people's jobs at risk--not even including the riders. Sort of like a UAW strike right now, bad bad timing. The risk is high, and I think most riders just don't think about the problems. I really think change should start from someone not involved in racing any more (no risk of causing problems for themselves) but who has a lot of respect and pull in the industry. And yes, every rider, should eventually be involved. Just my two cents.
12/17/2009 10:07am
Pro mx reminds me of the music industry sometimes (maybe not as bad). There is an article floating around somewhere illustrating that if you signed a major label recording deal and went on tour, you could make more money working at 7-11 during that same amount of time. I think it was Sevendust that came home from a successful tour and they were totally broke.

I think its true of any pastime that people would rather do than working a "normal" job. People will do it for free, meaning you have to be independently wealthy to pay for it yourself or have sponsors out the wazzoo.

Aren't outside sponsors free to come up with their own financial awards, like the Monster Energy triple crown of the Wonder Warthog deal? In other words you don't have to go through the promoter to get money in the riders' pocket.
rich72
Posts
55
Joined
12/2/2009
Location
Murfreesboro, TN US
12/17/2009 10:09am
does anybody really think the riders and team's have the power to change anything?i mean i would lmao to see stewart pull a kane west at the ama awards banqiut but that's never gona happen.it all come's down to the consumer.it;s the fan's in the seat and the customer's at the dearlership..that's where the real change begin's.look what the economy has done lately.our lack of buying power send the sport in a downfall for the sport.so that said i ask you.if you were at ticketmaster or the gate buying your ticket and they asked you if you would like to contibute a dollar or two to the rider fund would you do it?
Tiki
Posts
10338
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA US
Fantasy
1670th
12/17/2009 11:00am
SH_105 wrote:
Those are good points, the only complaint I have is that with the stick and ball sports is that they have NO entry fees to put...
Those are good points, the only complaint I have is that with the stick and ball sports is that they have NO entry fees to put the show on. No matter what way you look at it we PAY to be the show while Feld gets richer and richer off of the racing. They hold the lease rights to the stadiums and thats where I feel a big hang up is if we were to go a different direction. I dont think Feld should be shut out at all, they just need to realize that we ARE the show and that we need to be paid fairly by the amounts that they benefit from. You know for a fact the Moster Jam guys dont have entry fees!! So why do we??

SH
A program on Discovery Channel about the Monster Truck guys, the show explained that every team is paid to be there, and quite a bit I might add. It is more of a Circus or liken to Pro Wrestling rather than a competition. They are hired for the year. It is scripted to an extent of who is going to win, who is the crowd favorite etc. Sorry to toss some salt on your wounds.

I did some basic math based on what is known. Gate fees, estimated cost of labor even with unions, arena rental, transportation and track building, insurances and marketing. I figured Feld walks away with a few hundred grand per night. When you span that over the year, it really isn't that great. Its not loosing money but there are better ways to make it for sure.
Holigan
Posts
1444
Joined
6/18/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
12/17/2009 11:52am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:31pm
What everyone is missing is that Feld pays to put the races on television. TV is why teams and riders have sponsors from outside the industry. No TV, no huge dollars from Monster, Makita, Rockstar, Red Bull, Boost Mobile, etc.

In NASCAR, the teams pay a few thousand in entry fees for each race. The purse they get back is made up of 25% of the revenue from the television networks (opposite of MX, TV networks pay to air NASCAR races) and endemic sponsors that you see on the front fenders of the cars. If you finish towards the back of the pack, you might earn enough to cover your tire bill for that race.
Nikhil
Posts
906
Joined
3/14/2009
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
12/17/2009 12:19pm
500guy wrote:
That Jager FMX thread got me thinking.

Why didn't they ask them to pump the prize money up ?
I had no idea Monster Truck was scripted... That's absolutely ridiculous. At least with wrestling everyone knows its fake.

Post a reply to: Why doesn't anyone ever ask a series Sponsor to put money into the prize fund ?

The Latest