Why does jgr not produce good results?

Husky807 wrote:

In terms of good results, if Hill stays healthy (and can keep it on 2 wheels) i see no reason why he can't be a podium...

In terms of good results, if Hill stays healthy (and can keep it on 2 wheels) i see no reason why he can't be a podium guy on the 450 in Supercross next year. He ripped at Tampa and was second fastest in qualifying in Atlanta before he crashed out of the night show. He's even showing some promise outdoors which has surprised me.

RTDRacing wrote:

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the...

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the top 10, as is Hill. Look at Cunningham without factory backing, very competitive on that Zuke, There are 2 yellow bikes in the top 10, and a 3rd in 11th. I only see 1 green, 1 blue and 1 white in the top 10, and the white bike has a lot of points earned when it was yellow. And, like it was said earlier, Bogle ran out front a lot, until his injury slowed him down.

Time will tell with the new 250 making it's appearance next year and A-Mart supposedly running one for JGR??

RTDRacing wrote:

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the...

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the top 10, as is Hill. Look at Cunningham without factory backing, very competitive on that Zuke, There are 2 yellow bikes in the top 10, and a 3rd in 11th. I only see 1 green, 1 blue and 1 white in the top 10, and the white bike has a lot of points earned when it was yellow. And, like it was said earlier, Bogle ran out front a lot, until his injury slowed him down.

Time will tell with the new 250 making it's appearance next year and A-Mart supposedly running one for JGR??

Old Dirt Biker wrote:

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on...

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on last year was a great bike. Maybe a bit heavier than the other bikes out there, but it handled really well. The new bike, although lighter & slimmer, it is also a new chassis and it doesn't work well yet. The new engine is fine, as you can see with Bogle getting 6/8 holeshots, but that doesn't mean much if the thing doesn't handle. When you have a completely new bike sometimes it takes a while to get it developed, and that is the case here. Also, for JGR losing Bogle to injury for the majority of the year effected their ability to develop the bike.

Those are the simple facts.

RTDRacing wrote:

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the...

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the top 10, as is Hill. Look at Cunningham without factory backing, very competitive on that Zuke, There are 2 yellow bikes in the top 10, and a 3rd in 11th. I only see 1 green, 1 blue and 1 white in the top 10, and the white bike has a lot of points earned when it was yellow. And, like it was said earlier, Bogle ran out front a lot, until his injury slowed him down.

Time will tell with the new 250 making it's appearance next year and A-Mart supposedly running one for JGR??

Old Dirt Biker wrote:

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on...

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on last year was a great bike. Maybe a bit heavier than the other bikes out there, but it handled really well. The new bike, although lighter & slimmer, it is also a new chassis and it doesn't work well yet. The new engine is fine, as you can see with Bogle getting 6/8 holeshots, but that doesn't mean much if the thing doesn't handle. When you have a completely new bike sometimes it takes a while to get it developed, and that is the case here. Also, for JGR losing Bogle to injury for the majority of the year effected their ability to develop the bike.

Those are the simple facts.

Derek Harris wrote:

You really think the new chassis is to blame? JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort. Before they got the...

You really think the new chassis is to blame?

JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort.
Before they got the short end of the stick a lot

One issue for them has been no feeder program. This is undergoing changes on the amatuer side with suzuki now

Secondly they HAVE had some damn good results. Just no titles

Guess sx wins and outdoor wins is bad results???

Lastly - peick used to BARELY make mains.
He has podium on jgr and even hurt he has mixed it up around top 5 this year

Id say the bike, program, and JGR are just fine. Its just incredibly hard to win titles - ask honda

Old Dirt Biker wrote:

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on...

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on last year was a great bike. Maybe a bit heavier than the other bikes out there, but it handled really well. The new bike, although lighter & slimmer, it is also a new chassis and it doesn't work well yet. The new engine is fine, as you can see with Bogle getting 6/8 holeshots, but that doesn't mean much if the thing doesn't handle. When you have a completely new bike sometimes it takes a while to get it developed, and that is the case here. Also, for JGR losing Bogle to injury for the majority of the year effected their ability to develop the bike.

Those are the simple facts.

Derek Harris wrote:

You really think the new chassis is to blame? JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort. Before they got the...

You really think the new chassis is to blame?

JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort.
Before they got the short end of the stick a lot

One issue for them has been no feeder program. This is undergoing changes on the amatuer side with suzuki now

Secondly they HAVE had some damn good results. Just no titles

Guess sx wins and outdoor wins is bad results???

Lastly - peick used to BARELY make mains.
He has podium on jgr and even hurt he has mixed it up around top 5 this year

Id say the bike, program, and JGR are just fine. Its just incredibly hard to win titles - ask honda

GrapeApe wrote:

Tell me about this feeder program. I know they had Brock Papi on some team being managed by Larry Brooks, but obviously that blew up. What...

Tell me about this feeder program. I know they had Brock Papi on some team being managed by Larry Brooks, but obviously that blew up. What else to they have going on? They gave up on the GP's, even gave up on Japan nationals, handed their US program off to JGR, and don't seem to have any amateur presence. Nothing against JGR, but I think they are hamstrung even more by the new OEM than the old OEM if that is possible. Just my opinion, of course.

Derek Harris wrote:

You really think the new chassis is to blame? JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort. Before they got the...

You really think the new chassis is to blame?

JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort.
Before they got the short end of the stick a lot

One issue for them has been no feeder program. This is undergoing changes on the amatuer side with suzuki now

Secondly they HAVE had some damn good results. Just no titles

Guess sx wins and outdoor wins is bad results???

Lastly - peick used to BARELY make mains.
He has podium on jgr and even hurt he has mixed it up around top 5 this year

Id say the bike, program, and JGR are just fine. Its just incredibly hard to win titles - ask honda

GrapeApe wrote:

Tell me about this feeder program. I know they had Brock Papi on some team being managed by Larry Brooks, but obviously that blew up. What...

Tell me about this feeder program. I know they had Brock Papi on some team being managed by Larry Brooks, but obviously that blew up. What else to they have going on? They gave up on the GP's, even gave up on Japan nationals, handed their US program off to JGR, and don't seem to have any amateur presence. Nothing against JGR, but I think they are hamstrung even more by the new OEM than the old OEM if that is possible. Just my opinion, of course.

Derek Harris wrote:

The barx program is a brooks run deal He still has quite a few riders Then suzuki is also supporting some 85 and supermini level riders...

The barx program is a brooks run deal

He still has quite a few riders
Then suzuki is also supporting some 85 and supermini level riders with lots of equipment support. Jgr recently hosted a ride day for these kids prior to lorettas

This program will grow over the next couple years and with jgr having arguably the nicest facilties in this industry - it really wows parents and kids - and is a great sales tool (even though most of that is from nascar)

Yamaha factory racing was in competition with jgr. Plain and simple. This cant work, cooper web is a great example of how jgr got screwed

They will have their day - but it wont happen fast. Assuming eli is kawi for life, roczen is honda for life, and ktm keeps musquin and 1 other premium talent, anderson is husky for life, its going to be hard to win a title for the next 5 years

Jgr will have to hope they can have Hill become a consistent week in week out guy, and peick to lurk around the podium week in and week out. I dont think peick quite has the gift of roczen or tomac - but his heart and desire is off the charts - which is special in its own right. He is great for our sport

If you are suzuki - woukd you invest a couple million in a ktm like bike?
When your racing effort has won more 450 titles in the last 15 years than anyone? Titles didnt equate to sales - and the bike in race trim is plenty good to win

Personally - just my dumb opinion - the premier bike now days is the 250f - and it garners sales and buids loyalty. This is killing suzuki more than anything. No kid wants to buy a 250f - its just too slow vs a ktm or yzf.

If they cloned one cylinder off their newest 1000gsxr and stuffed it in current chassis - it would help sales a ton

All “new” is just sales gimics. Often - in hondas case especially - or maybe arguably yamahas case too, all new hurts you. The rmz platform has great bones it just needs a motor and a diet - jgr has the motor and ill bet it weighs a respectable number in race trim

RTDRacing wrote:

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the...

As far as the 450 goes, I don't think it's the bike. Roczen ran one to a title. Peick is injured, and still running in the top 10, as is Hill. Look at Cunningham without factory backing, very competitive on that Zuke, There are 2 yellow bikes in the top 10, and a 3rd in 11th. I only see 1 green, 1 blue and 1 white in the top 10, and the white bike has a lot of points earned when it was yellow. And, like it was said earlier, Bogle ran out front a lot, until his injury slowed him down.

Time will tell with the new 250 making it's appearance next year and A-Mart supposedly running one for JGR??

Old Dirt Biker wrote:

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on...

The issue here guys is the chassis. The old bike that RC, CR, RD, and KR won titles on, and the bike that Bogle won on last year was a great bike. Maybe a bit heavier than the other bikes out there, but it handled really well. The new bike, although lighter & slimmer, it is also a new chassis and it doesn't work well yet. The new engine is fine, as you can see with Bogle getting 6/8 holeshots, but that doesn't mean much if the thing doesn't handle. When you have a completely new bike sometimes it takes a while to get it developed, and that is the case here. Also, for JGR losing Bogle to injury for the majority of the year effected their ability to develop the bike.

Those are the simple facts.

Derek Harris wrote:

You really think the new chassis is to blame? JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort. Before they got the...

You really think the new chassis is to blame?

JGR is now poised to do better than ever being the factory effort.
Before they got the short end of the stick a lot

One issue for them has been no feeder program. This is undergoing changes on the amatuer side with suzuki now

Secondly they HAVE had some damn good results. Just no titles

Guess sx wins and outdoor wins is bad results???

Lastly - peick used to BARELY make mains.
He has podium on jgr and even hurt he has mixed it up around top 5 this year

Id say the bike, program, and JGR are just fine. Its just incredibly hard to win titles - ask honda

Dougy1 wrote:

Anyways I predict big things from Hill come 19 sx.

kb228 wrote:

Until youre the only guy with a kickstarter on your bike and youre losing a ton of time in a race while everyone else doesnt even...

Until youre the only guy with a kickstarter on your bike and youre losing a ton of time in a race while everyone else doesnt even have to stop after stalling. Yeah, thats not holding anyone back.

JBecker 72 wrote:

Again, explain Tomac.

kb228 wrote:

Yea exactly. Tomac arguably lost that sx race because of kicking the bike. Proves my point exactly.