Why do riders Sandbag C class?

Tarz483
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Tarz483
Edited Date/Time 6/4/2021 3:47pm
The stacked out c classes are mostly b riders wanting to make LL's in C before moving to B. I know several kids who did this for 3-4 yrs. injury before a regional, stay in c class and wait till next year.... Knowing that moving to B class means no trip to the ranch

What do you think the reason is for sand bagging?
is it because they want to go to Loretta's and don't think they can Qualify in The B class?

If it is that is there a fix?

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yz133rider
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yz133rider 5/31/2021 8:54pm
5/31/2021 8:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 8:56pm
The fix is to use transponders and group riders based on lap times instead of allowing them to self identify as a c rider even though they hit every jump and scrub past actual c riders.

I think this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed too. Because actual beginners enter c class and get smoked. They get demoralized and then don’t come back or never enter to begin with. C should be legit beginners.
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hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 5/31/2021 9:35pm
5/31/2021 9:35pm
Been wondering this for over 10 years. Raced the C class at a local race a couple weeks ago and things haven’t changed.
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Titan1
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Titan1 5/31/2021 10:15pm
5/31/2021 10:15pm Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 10:19pm
So they can post on the Gram that they won the race on Saturday...conveniently leaving out that they won the beginner class.


I’d rather finish last in A, than first in C, all day every day.

With that said, there is always going to be a fastest rider in the C class...that slower riders are going to accuse of sandbagging...so there needs to be a standardized way of placing riders. Lap times based or something...lap times within X seconds of the average A class lap time, puts you in the B class...within Y seconds puts you in the C class...something like that...
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 5/31/2021 10:18pm
5/31/2021 10:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/31/2021 10:27pm
I always figured the ones that are wanting to do some amateur nationals stay down in the C class when their racing locally/regionally, The B class is about non existent in my area. They’ll get about 1/3 of the signups that’s the C gets

Kinda sucks for us guys just wanting to have some fun on the weekends at the local track but life goes on.

But what really counts as sandbagging? I always figure if you’re putting a 20 second gap on 2nd in a 5 lap race a couple times it might be time to bump up
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McGinnis_339 5/31/2021 10:21pm
5/31/2021 10:21pm
I understand there is an issue... but in the big picture, what is the actual problem? Do the B class riders gain anything from staying down and potentially winning a championship in the C class at Lorettas or any other amateur national? And do the kids who are actually fit for C class miss out on a career in supercross by not winning in that class? McGrath and Axell Hodges are probably the only 2 C class champions from Lorettas who have made a career from racing dirtbikes.
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109
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109 5/31/2021 10:37pm
5/31/2021 10:37pm
The problem is having local races with Lorettas classes.

Fix is to run 250 or 450 open. Top 4 go A, 5-8 go B, 9-12 go C.

A 5th place A guy deserves to race lorettas before a 1st place C rider any and every day.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 6/1/2021 1:01am
6/1/2021 1:01am
Just have X amount of riders qualify. When they get to Loretta’s, have timed qualifying. Split them into thirds from there. Only the A Class rides for anything other than pride.
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KiwiBermRailer 6/1/2021 1:18am
6/1/2021 1:18am
yz133rider wrote:
The fix is to use transponders and group riders based on lap times instead of allowing them to self identify as a c rider even though...
The fix is to use transponders and group riders based on lap times instead of allowing them to self identify as a c rider even though they hit every jump and scrub past actual c riders.

I think this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed too. Because actual beginners enter c class and get smoked. They get demoralized and then don’t come back or never enter to begin with. C should be legit beginners.
Ya don’t get a trophy or chicks for coming last in B grade!!
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Gordon Liddy 6/1/2021 2:51am
6/1/2021 2:51am
Sandbaggers have a low IQ. They are fucking themselves, and don't even know it.
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LOOnatic
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LOOnatic 6/1/2021 4:10am
6/1/2021 4:10am
Off road moto racing has the same problem so it's not strictly due to the allure of Loretta's.
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 6/1/2021 4:10am
6/1/2021 4:10am
Sad to say, this has been happening since the inception of the C class. As a long time promoter and rider, it pisses me off to no end.
But despite peoples best efforts over the years to fix the issue, nothing has really worked.

It's not all about LL, although it certainly is for some.
For others it's the trophy and winning. Even though they're beating begginers. Which I've never understood.
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quadzrulebro 6/1/2021 4:16am
6/1/2021 4:16am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2021 4:18am
IMO, Loretta’s shouldn’t have B and C classes. If everyone was grouped simply by age (7-8, 9-10, etc) and bike type (50cc shaft, 50cc chain driven, 85cc, Supermini, 250 stock, 250 mod, etc.) it would be a true national championship.
If your 15 year old kid racing a stock 250 beat every other 15 year old in the country racing a stock 250, then he is the national champion. How can a 15 year old who wins the C class call himself a national champion when another 15 year old who is going several seconds a lap faster gets 4th in the B class?
MX Sports is doing the sport in general a great disservice by perpetuating the current system with B and C class level national championships. This greatly influences what happens at local tracks throughout the country.
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TheRookie
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TheRookie 6/1/2021 4:24am
6/1/2021 4:24am
Because that million dollar contract is waiting at LL for the C Class championship...
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vdrsnk04
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vdrsnk04 6/1/2021 4:38am
6/1/2021 4:38am
If the we say the C class is for beginners and I agree it is. Then I don’t think there should be a c class “championship” at Loretta’s. They should have regionals and that’s it. I think some of the B class riders do C class to be able to say they made it to Loretta’s, or won it.

But if it’s a beginners class it doesn’t make sense to me to have it at the Loretta’s level. Stick to district and regional racing until you are winning, move to B class there and try to qualify to Loretta’s.

JMO
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Speeddemon73
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Speeddemon73 6/1/2021 5:10am
6/1/2021 5:10am
I blame lazy race officials and organizers. It is supposed to be up to them to determine people who are sandbagging in the class and move them up. If I saw some dude doing the big triples and hucking some huge jumps like the A & B class guys, then they get booted up to that class no ifs, and, or buts about it. You can see the YouTube videos these guys post of their races from the C-class and they are riding just as fast as the B-class. Most of the same guys go out on practice days with A & B class anyways so if you can practice with A & B, then why are you in C-class? It's especially terrible in my area to the point most of the A-class and B-class riders don't race anymore. What's the point? It's not fun racing against 2 other guys or just racing yourself in A-class. Most of the fast guys in my area have moved on to racing Harescrambles or Sprint Enduro where the classes are packed and offroad racing seems to be booming compared to MX.
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DA498
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DA498 6/1/2021 5:26am
6/1/2021 5:26am
IMO it’s not only C class, B class is full of A riders. Lorettas is proof all day. Locally the A class is non existent here in CO from what I’ve seen.

30 riders in C, 20 riders in B, 4 in A
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yak651
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yak651 6/1/2021 5:45am
6/1/2021 5:45am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2021 5:45am
quadzrulebro wrote:
IMO, Loretta’s shouldn’t have B and C classes. If everyone was grouped simply by age (7-8, 9-10, etc) and bike type (50cc shaft, 50cc chain driven...
IMO, Loretta’s shouldn’t have B and C classes. If everyone was grouped simply by age (7-8, 9-10, etc) and bike type (50cc shaft, 50cc chain driven, 85cc, Supermini, 250 stock, 250 mod, etc.) it would be a true national championship.
If your 15 year old kid racing a stock 250 beat every other 15 year old in the country racing a stock 250, then he is the national champion. How can a 15 year old who wins the C class call himself a national champion when another 15 year old who is going several seconds a lap faster gets 4th in the B class?
MX Sports is doing the sport in general a great disservice by perpetuating the current system with B and C class level national championships. This greatly influences what happens at local tracks throughout the country.
Makes sense but than LL wouldn't be a week (week and a half now...) long event. Also what would the sponsors do with all that extra money, give it to privateers so they could have a go at the national circuit?? That's crazy talk!
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resetjet
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resetjet 6/1/2021 5:48am
6/1/2021 5:48am
Because people need to feed their ego and tell everyone they won.......then the next day nobody cares.
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sandman768
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sandman768 6/1/2021 6:07am
6/1/2021 6:07am
Couldn’t wait to make A class when I raced. Everyone lined up to watch the A class. A stated above, rather finish mid pack A class than win C. But yes, when you come home & tell most people you won, they don’t know the difference between A & C.... lots of fragile egos in Moto....
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mattyhamz2 6/1/2021 6:09am
6/1/2021 6:09am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
If the we say the C class is for beginners and I agree it is. Then I don’t think there should be a c class “championship”...
If the we say the C class is for beginners and I agree it is. Then I don’t think there should be a c class “championship” at Loretta’s. They should have regionals and that’s it. I think some of the B class riders do C class to be able to say they made it to Loretta’s, or won it.

But if it’s a beginners class it doesn’t make sense to me to have it at the Loretta’s level. Stick to district and regional racing until you are winning, move to B class there and try to qualify to Loretta’s.

JMO
This is the problem with the C class and how everyone sees it. On the West Cost it isn’t the beginner class. We have dedicated beginner classes. Other than the few that sandbag the actual beginner classes, it’s a pretty big jump from beginner to C here. Take things back East more and that’s completely different where the C class is basically the beginner class. I think that’s a big problem that we have with that specific class. Too much variance throughout the country.

And the C class isn’t the only heavily sandbagged class. Go to Mammoth and you’ll see guys drop down a class everywhere. Vets, kids, doesn’t matter.
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LouisianaMotocross 6/1/2021 6:15am
6/1/2021 6:15am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
If the we say the C class is for beginners and I agree it is. Then I don’t think there should be a c class “championship”...
If the we say the C class is for beginners and I agree it is. Then I don’t think there should be a c class “championship” at Loretta’s. They should have regionals and that’s it. I think some of the B class riders do C class to be able to say they made it to Loretta’s, or won it.

But if it’s a beginners class it doesn’t make sense to me to have it at the Loretta’s level. Stick to district and regional racing until you are winning, move to B class there and try to qualify to Loretta’s.

JMO
mattyhamz2 wrote:
This is the problem with the C class and how everyone sees it. On the West Cost it isn’t the beginner class. We have dedicated beginner...
This is the problem with the C class and how everyone sees it. On the West Cost it isn’t the beginner class. We have dedicated beginner classes. Other than the few that sandbag the actual beginner classes, it’s a pretty big jump from beginner to C here. Take things back East more and that’s completely different where the C class is basically the beginner class. I think that’s a big problem that we have with that specific class. Too much variance throughout the country.

And the C class isn’t the only heavily sandbagged class. Go to Mammoth and you’ll see guys drop down a class everywhere. Vets, kids, doesn’t matter.
Same here. C class isn’t beg class.
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SrfNdirt
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SrfNdirt 6/1/2021 6:26am
6/1/2021 6:26am
Probably the same type of people that lie on their golf scorecards. They drop down in different series when they're moved up in another.
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Brent
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Brent 6/1/2021 6:39am
6/1/2021 6:39am
Haha ever raced at mammoth?
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Leeham
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Leeham 6/1/2021 7:20am
6/1/2021 7:20am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2021 7:20am
I just wanna race people my skill level locally. IDGAF about winning trophies or whatever. Ill race whatever class has certain riders in it. Guys ive battled with on local practice days and go into that class. Im sure C class for LL is chalked, you see local D class? Oh my goodness is it the beaches of Normandy? So many sandbags its unbelievable its gross
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Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 6/1/2021 7:22am
6/1/2021 7:22am
Because they peaked in High School.
Mark Hite
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Mark Hite 6/1/2021 7:29am
6/1/2021 7:29am
Because they can, classification should always be tied to lap times. Take a look at the lap times at the 2-Stroke World Championships, it's shocking the over lap between Novice, Intermediate, and Pro when looking at lap times.
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wideroad
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wideroad 6/1/2021 8:39am
6/1/2021 8:39am
Every race weekend I'm watching my 16yr old nephew in his first year of racing get obliterated by guys running times that are competitive B-class lap times, if not A-class viable times and it takes a toll on a new racer.

It seems like it would be easy enough to dump and sort the the lap time data from transponders into excel and then assign groups based off the A-class statistics. The caveat I see with this approach is, assuming they're racing the appropriate class, how is someone supposed to stay in the same class the whole race series as riders either progress or not relative to their class?

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