Why can't KTM get a handle on the new bike?

davistld01
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davistld01
Edited Date/Time 2/14/2022 8:48am
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
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Leeham
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Leeham 2/11/2022 10:25am
2/11/2022 10:25am
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

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Dirty Points 2/11/2022 10:26am
2/11/2022 10:26am
Leeham wrote:
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/11/532968/s1200_Aaron_Plessinger_2022_KTM_450SXF_64_scaled.jpg[/img]
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

Two of them, in fact.
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Broseph
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Broseph 2/11/2022 10:40am
2/11/2022 10:40am
Leeham wrote:
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/11/532968/s1200_Aaron_Plessinger_2022_KTM_450SXF_64_scaled.jpg[/img]
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

Ha!

I’ve been thinking the same thing. I mean, it’s one of the sexiest KTMs I’ve ever seen and I can’t wait to buy a ‘23 or ‘24 (300 or 350… hardest decision ever). But what’s going on with the new geometry that prevents them from slapping last years settings on and at least having a decent place to start?
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Leeham
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Leeham 2/11/2022 10:44am
2/11/2022 10:44am
Broseph wrote:
Ha! I’ve been thinking the same thing. I mean, it’s one of the sexiest KTMs I’ve ever seen and I can’t wait to buy a ‘23...
Ha!

I’ve been thinking the same thing. I mean, it’s one of the sexiest KTMs I’ve ever seen and I can’t wait to buy a ‘23 or ‘24 (300 or 350… hardest decision ever). But what’s going on with the new geometry that prevents them from slapping last years settings on and at least having a decent place to start?
Being a pro and having a desired feel. Takes just a little bit in either direction and the bike feels entirely different.
Adjust your bars either direction. Bike is the same at the core, but feels different. On my YZ250F, moved the bars from the front to the back, now it corners even better. Its stuff like that.
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The Shop

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 2/11/2022 10:50am
2/11/2022 10:50am
They’d had 2015 thru 2021 (continuously) developing and racing the old-bike.

They’ve had “months” on the new bike.
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Gravel
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Gravel 2/11/2022 10:57am
2/11/2022 10:57am
KTM will get it right soon enough, it usually takes about a full season for a completely new bike. It’s been like this for a few decades now, the Star Yamaha team has had 4 years on the current bike. Watch Star Yamaha next year (assume they’ll have a new bike next year) and the pattern will repeat.

It’s gotten much better, it used to be a terrible idea to buy a first year model, especially KTMs. The first RFS models were known for eating expensive ti valves and guides in 30 hours.
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SmokinJoe439 2/11/2022 11:19am
2/11/2022 11:19am
Tune in next time for another episode of....

When a rider blames a bike for his poor performance
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BobPA
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BobPA 2/11/2022 11:30am
2/11/2022 11:30am
davistld01 wrote:
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022...
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
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cwel11
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cwel11 2/11/2022 12:00pm
2/11/2022 12:00pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022...
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it where needed until it’s a great bike then scrap it and start over? I won’t be standing in line to swap my 21 for the 23 FC350 until I know for sure it’s a great bike. If it wasn’t for contingency after this year I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe I’ll find a lightly used 22 instead. Definitely would ride one before I plop down 10g for a bike when it’s not as good as my current model. Time will tell I guess.
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tek14
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tek14 2/11/2022 12:23pm
2/11/2022 12:23pm
Leeham wrote:
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/11/532968/s1200_Aaron_Plessinger_2022_KTM_450SXF_64_scaled.jpg[/img]
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

Has been said its not handle its getting more air in.
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davis224
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davis224 2/11/2022 12:26pm
2/11/2022 12:26pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022...
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
cwel11 wrote:
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it...
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it where needed until it’s a great bike then scrap it and start over? I won’t be standing in line to swap my 21 for the 23 FC350 until I know for sure it’s a great bike. If it wasn’t for contingency after this year I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe I’ll find a lightly used 22 instead. Definitely would ride one before I plop down 10g for a bike when it’s not as good as my current model. Time will tell I guess.
Why don't you ride a Suzuki then?
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 2/11/2022 12:28pm
2/11/2022 12:28pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022...
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
cwel11 wrote:
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it...
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it where needed until it’s a great bike then scrap it and start over? I won’t be standing in line to swap my 21 for the 23 FC350 until I know for sure it’s a great bike. If it wasn’t for contingency after this year I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe I’ll find a lightly used 22 instead. Definitely would ride one before I plop down 10g for a bike when it’s not as good as my current model. Time will tell I guess.
Dungey rode the new bike and says it's hands down better than last year's bike.

The problem is that they have no data when it comes to racing. You think the bike is going to do one thing and it does the opposite.

The weekly testing is not transferring to the race on weekends, so they're left trying more things. Some of it works, some of it doesn't.

The new bike is losing drive in the whoops. AP says he's having trouble keeping it planted in the ruts/turns. That's pretty concerning considering the series is heading East soon.
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kapaa10
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kapaa10 2/11/2022 1:01pm
2/11/2022 1:01pm
I rode the 23 and I really like it
Falcon
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Falcon 2/11/2022 1:04pm
2/11/2022 1:04pm
SmokinJoe439 wrote:
Tune in next time for another episode of....

When a rider blames a bike for his poor performance
This.


Also,
Soften the forks and the rear gets too stiff. Soften the rear and now the bike understeers. Raise the forks and now the bike stinkbugs. Stiffen the forks to compensate, and now the shock is too soft.
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Dirty Points 2/11/2022 1:12pm
2/11/2022 1:12pm
davistld01 wrote:
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022...
I'm shocked that, with all the resources that they presumably have...and all the Championships they've amassed...that they can't seem to get a handle on their 2022 factory bikes. Heck, if a team like Star Racing can turn a "blue pig" into a Championship caliber machine...with what I imagine is a smaller race budget & lesser resources, you'd think KTM could get Cooper and Plessinger comfy on the new bike.
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
cwel11 wrote:
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it...
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it where needed until it’s a great bike then scrap it and start over? I won’t be standing in line to swap my 21 for the 23 FC350 until I know for sure it’s a great bike. If it wasn’t for contingency after this year I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe I’ll find a lightly used 22 instead. Definitely would ride one before I plop down 10g for a bike when it’s not as good as my current model. Time will tell I guess.
Vital (Ping), MXA, and Keefer all say it is improved over the previous model.
kage173
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kage173 2/11/2022 1:27pm
2/11/2022 1:27pm
Leeham wrote:
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/11/532968/s1200_Aaron_Plessinger_2022_KTM_450SXF_64_scaled.jpg[/img]
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

Still can't believe they are running that hideous seat color. It's so much orange it makes my eyes bleed. I hope they focus on fixing that before they work on performance
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soggy
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soggy 2/11/2022 1:31pm
2/11/2022 1:31pm
Podium for webby this week. Maybe a win.
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twotwosix
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twotwosix 2/11/2022 1:37pm
2/11/2022 1:37pm
It takes time to develop a new race bike. They didn't have a ton of that. They also didn't ride the bike publicly until late into the offseason. The stock 22 bike is heavier and reportedly feels larger than the outgoing model. This would affect Webb the most comparatively to Musquin, Plessinger, Stewart and Wilson. Mookie said they did a lot of their testing on the East coast. Maybe we will see that bike come alive once they go east. I'm not 100% sold on that though, because A1 seemed awfully East-coast-ish and Webb didn't seem close to 100% race pace there yet. I think these next 3 rounds will be very telling for Webb's title defense.

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twotwosix
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twotwosix 2/11/2022 1:37pm
2/11/2022 1:37pm
Leeham wrote:
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/02/11/532968/s1200_Aaron_Plessinger_2022_KTM_450SXF_64_scaled.jpg[/img]
You are mistaken, they do have a handle on their machine

kage173 wrote:
Still can't believe they are running that hideous seat color. It's so much orange it makes my eyes bleed. I hope they focus on fixing that...
Still can't believe they are running that hideous seat color. It's so much orange it makes my eyes bleed. I hope they focus on fixing that before they work on performance
Unpopular opinion: I like it.
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twotwosix
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twotwosix 2/11/2022 1:39pm
2/11/2022 1:39pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Vital (Ping), MXA, and Keefer all say it is improved over the previous model.
Yes.

BUT, the Supercross Race Machine with the #1 on it and the FE bike we can buy are very different machines. KTM clearly do not have Webb 100% comfy on the new frame yet...
Dirty Points 2/11/2022 2:00pm
2/11/2022 2:00pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Vital (Ping), MXA, and Keefer all say it is improved over the previous model.
twotwosix wrote:
Yes. BUT, the Supercross Race Machine with the #1 on it and the FE bike we can buy are very different machines. KTM clearly do not...
Yes.

BUT, the Supercross Race Machine with the #1 on it and the FE bike we can buy are very different machines. KTM clearly do not have Webb 100% comfy on the new frame yet...
Read what I was responing to. Had nothing to do with Supercross, factory bikes, or factory riders. It was just a normal dude who was concerned it would be a step down from his previous model.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 2/11/2022 2:13pm
2/11/2022 2:13pm
If Webb wins this weekend, have they fixed the bike or is it God's will?
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Dirty Points 2/11/2022 2:21pm
2/11/2022 2:21pm
Bruce372 wrote:
If Webb wins this weekend, have they fixed the bike or is it God's will?
Roger probably has a penthouse office. Cooper always credits the man upstairs.
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limepandanz 2/11/2022 3:36pm
2/11/2022 3:36pm
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
Who knows for sure though, Mookie has apparently been riding with an injured and possibly broken foot. I imagine that would impact his Whoop speed quite a bit.
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andymoto
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andymoto 2/11/2022 6:47pm
2/11/2022 6:47pm
Changing brands could refresh a riders outlook vs changing a title winning bike and it's characteristics and with it, losing that sweet n confident feel only the team riders know. Not willing to take risks of past seasons until that feel returns.

Webb might win the next race since being posted on Vital too. Hasn't been getting the good starts he's known for hasn't helped.





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cwel11
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cwel11 2/11/2022 7:32pm
2/11/2022 7:32pm
BobPA wrote:
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it...
Well it took Yamaha 12 years to lose the "blue pig" mantra. KTM has been racing the bike for what, a month? Herlings won on it overseas...But, all of the US based rider have looked like shit on it. Mookie has definitely lost his speed in the whoops.


Maybe new isn't always better
cwel11 wrote:
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it...
It’s always mind blowing to me how or why a manufacturer would completely redesign a bike when it’s proven to be a good platform. Tweak it where needed until it’s a great bike then scrap it and start over? I won’t be standing in line to swap my 21 for the 23 FC350 until I know for sure it’s a great bike. If it wasn’t for contingency after this year I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe I’ll find a lightly used 22 instead. Definitely would ride one before I plop down 10g for a bike when it’s not as good as my current model. Time will tell I guess.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Dungey rode the new bike and says it's hands down better than last year's bike. The problem is that they have no data when it comes...
Dungey rode the new bike and says it's hands down better than last year's bike.

The problem is that they have no data when it comes to racing. You think the bike is going to do one thing and it does the opposite.

The weekly testing is not transferring to the race on weekends, so they're left trying more things. Some of it works, some of it doesn't.

The new bike is losing drive in the whoops. AP says he's having trouble keeping it planted in the ruts/turns. That's pretty concerning considering the series is heading East soon.
So if the fastest guys in the world with the best teams behind them can’t make it work maybe me, a 40+ intermediate who knows just enough about setting up a bike to be dangerous can get it dialed 😂. Seriously though, I’m definitely going to wait a bit to see how the 23 bikes do for the everyman. Maybe it’ll be great for us mere mortals, who knows.
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DrinkMoreWater 2/11/2022 8:03pm
2/11/2022 8:03pm
All their riders apart from Webb are where they should be, if Webb was at his best he still wouldn't be winning with Tomac and Ando back in form and Sexton on the come up.
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 2/12/2022 1:13am
2/12/2022 1:13am
The engine has been the same since 2018, bike can’t be all new.
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