Why are 250s better

MrKnowNothing
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
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ML512
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ML512 7/3/2018 7:17pm
7/3/2018 7:17pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
More factory level riders/factory level bikes and the bikes can be ridden closer to their maximum potential by a larger number of said riders.
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VET176
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VET176 7/3/2018 7:27pm
7/3/2018 7:27pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
Mate, you just answered your own question. "On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto"
make1go
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make1go 7/3/2018 7:28pm
7/3/2018 7:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2018 7:29pm
same reason 125 cc is better, you can often slam into each other and both stay up, cant do that on 450s or 500 2t, with those bikes either one or both go down.

btw ive raced 125,250,500 2t and both 4t capacities.
newmann
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newmann 7/3/2018 7:45pm
7/3/2018 7:45pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
Because it is the Premier class where the most money is being spent to keep stuff running. High RPM action is always better action. One day the people running the show will realize this...

12 rounds 250, and I mean 250 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
6 rounds 125cc National Championship
6 rounds Open class National Championship

There you have it, the answer to all the worlds questions.
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VET176
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VET176 7/3/2018 7:49pm
7/3/2018 7:49pm
newmann wrote:
Because it is the Premier class where the most money is being spent to keep stuff running. High RPM action is always better action. One day...
Because it is the Premier class where the most money is being spent to keep stuff running. High RPM action is always better action. One day the people running the show will realize this...

12 rounds 250, and I mean 250 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
6 rounds 125cc National Championship
6 rounds Open class National Championship

There you have it, the answer to all the worlds questions.
Great idea. Cool

When do we start?
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 7/3/2018 7:53pm
7/3/2018 7:53pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
ML512 wrote:
More factory level riders/factory level bikes and the bikes can be ridden closer to their maximum potential by a larger number of said riders.
Exactly my opinion and I'll add something more.

Of the guys in the 250 class, there are more guys who have less experience.

Less experience and the younger average age in the class means those guys will take bigger risks and consequentially make more mistakes. The risks plus mistakes seem to give us these changes in the points lead almost on a week-to-week basis in that class some years.

I also think it takes a lot more skill and preparation (bike/team and rider) to ride a 450 as hard as the top couple of guys. In any given season there seem to be only a few guys and teams who have that formula dialed in.

A couple of examples of that we've seen this year are Barcia and Roczen. Both are super-talented guys, but one caught fire again after some bad times and the other is off his normal pace due to injury.
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 7/3/2018 7:57pm
7/3/2018 7:57pm
newmann wrote:
Because it is the Premier class where the most money is being spent to keep stuff running. High RPM action is always better action. One day...
Because it is the Premier class where the most money is being spent to keep stuff running. High RPM action is always better action. One day the people running the show will realize this...

12 rounds 250, and I mean 250 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
6 rounds 125cc National Championship
6 rounds Open class National Championship

There you have it, the answer to all the worlds questions.
...And if those series are each during a different part of the year, it allows many guys to still have a stake in a series in spite of an injury. The shorter "support" series' might also keep things exciting in the points, unlike the years we have 30+ point leads by the half-way point, the 6 round series would reset things. It would also show off the skills of guys who are better (or worse) on different sized bikes.

Not entirely a bad idea there.
Squirrelings 7/3/2018 8:52pm
7/3/2018 8:52pm
Because at least half the dudes who have a shot at winning races on a 250 should be on 450s.
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Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 7/3/2018 11:36pm
7/3/2018 11:36pm
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
ML512 wrote:
More factory level riders/factory level bikes and the bikes can be ridden closer to their maximum potential by a larger number of said riders.
dont forget younger dumber kids who act vs think.
roninho
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roninho 7/4/2018 1:25am
7/4/2018 1:25am
Squirrelings wrote:
Because at least half the dudes who have a shot at winning races on a 250 should be on 450s.
Why?
Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then 9th in points. He never did much in 250's nor tried much. Racerxonline sees him as one of the 30th best us mx riders ever.

Don't see why half of these dudes should be racing on a 450. Let them race for wins in 250s if they want to (and probably better from a money perspective as well).
Squirrelings 7/4/2018 1:48am
7/4/2018 1:48am
Squirrelings wrote:
Because at least half the dudes who have a shot at winning races on a 250 should be on 450s.
roninho wrote:
Why? Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then...
Why?
Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then 9th in points. He never did much in 250's nor tried much. Racerxonline sees him as one of the 30th best us mx riders ever.

Don't see why half of these dudes should be racing on a 450. Let them race for wins in 250s if they want to (and probably better from a money perspective as well).
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it all and that doesn't change my view or make it "ok" IMO that racers and teams care more about 250s due to an easier chance of victory. Then again, I'm not a sandbagger who stayed down a class to win plastic trophies. Couldn't wait to take the next step as a racer. BTW, Lammy raced the 250 plenty in Supercross. Did pretty damn good too.
MrKnowNothing 7/4/2018 9:21am
7/4/2018 9:21am
I can’t even begin to list the names of guys that ran 250sx and 125 nationals. LOTS
BobPA
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BobPA 7/4/2018 9:47am
7/4/2018 9:47am
Squirrelings wrote:
Because at least half the dudes who have a shot at winning races on a 250 should be on 450s.
roninho wrote:
Why? Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then...
Why?
Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then 9th in points. He never did much in 250's nor tried much. Racerxonline sees him as one of the 30th best us mx riders ever.

Don't see why half of these dudes should be racing on a 450. Let them race for wins in 250s if they want to (and probably better from a money perspective as well).
Squirrelings wrote:
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it...
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it all and that doesn't change my view or make it "ok" IMO that racers and teams care more about 250s due to an easier chance of victory. Then again, I'm not a sandbagger who stayed down a class to win plastic trophies. Couldn't wait to take the next step as a racer. BTW, Lammy raced the 250 plenty in Supercross. Did pretty damn good too.
Why should the best racing be on 450’s? I did not see that in the AMA rulebook.

To bad your education level did not progress like your, supposed, MX abilities.
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ajv#26
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ajv#26 7/4/2018 9:56am
7/4/2018 9:56am
If ama get the mxgp rule (sub 23) how much guys move from 250 to the 450 class?
Squirrelings 7/4/2018 10:19am
7/4/2018 10:19am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2018 10:37am
roninho wrote:
Why? Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then...
Why?
Steve Lamson raced in 125's for 7 of the 8 seasons between 1990 and 1997, winning the outdoor title twice and never finishing lower then 9th in points. He never did much in 250's nor tried much. Racerxonline sees him as one of the 30th best us mx riders ever.

Don't see why half of these dudes should be racing on a 450. Let them race for wins in 250s if they want to (and probably better from a money perspective as well).
Squirrelings wrote:
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it...
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it all and that doesn't change my view or make it "ok" IMO that racers and teams care more about 250s due to an easier chance of victory. Then again, I'm not a sandbagger who stayed down a class to win plastic trophies. Couldn't wait to take the next step as a racer. BTW, Lammy raced the 250 plenty in Supercross. Did pretty damn good too.
BobPA wrote:
Why should the best racing be on 450’s? I did not see that in the AMA rulebook. To bad your education level did not progress like...
Why should the best racing be on 450’s? I did not see that in the AMA rulebook.

To bad your education level did not progress like your, supposed, MX abilities.
STFU douche.

Edit: By the way, since you're trying to insult my intelligence, it's "too bad", imbecile.
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Honda Man 66 7/4/2018 10:45am
7/4/2018 10:45am
Like ML said, more people can ride a 250 for all it is worth. That is why the racing is better.
BobPA
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BobPA 7/4/2018 10:52am
7/4/2018 10:52am
Squirrelings wrote:
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it...
Because the best racing should be in the 450 class. Racers should strive to be on a 450. Don't really care what lammy did. Saw it all and that doesn't change my view or make it "ok" IMO that racers and teams care more about 250s due to an easier chance of victory. Then again, I'm not a sandbagger who stayed down a class to win plastic trophies. Couldn't wait to take the next step as a racer. BTW, Lammy raced the 250 plenty in Supercross. Did pretty damn good too.
BobPA wrote:
Why should the best racing be on 450’s? I did not see that in the AMA rulebook. To bad your education level did not progress like...
Why should the best racing be on 450’s? I did not see that in the AMA rulebook.

To bad your education level did not progress like your, supposed, MX abilities.
Squirrelings wrote:
STFU douche.

Edit: By the way, since you're trying to insult my intelligence, it's "too bad", imbecile.
You insult your own intelligence every time you touch a keyboard.

Thanks for the grammar correction. Even the blind Squirrelings finds a nut once in a while.

Damn I’m good...
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Squirrelings 7/4/2018 11:06am
7/4/2018 11:06am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2018 11:08am
BobPA wrote:
You insult your own intelligence every time you touch a keyboard. Thanks for the grammar correction. Even the blind Squirrelings finds a nut once in a...
You insult your own intelligence every time you touch a keyboard.

Thanks for the grammar correction. Even the blind Squirrelings finds a nut once in a while.

Damn I’m good...
Only thing you're good at is looking like a tool. FYI, I lived in PA until 4 years ago. I know who you are. You're a fucking ass clown IRL as well.

Everybody I know that's ever met you thinks you're a douchebag as well. They aren't into dudes though, so I don't think you'd care what they think.
zehn
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zehn 7/4/2018 11:10am
7/4/2018 11:10am
burn1986 wrote:
Troll thread
Yeah this thread is trash
BobPA
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BobPA 7/4/2018 11:31am
7/4/2018 11:31am
BobPA wrote:
You insult your own intelligence every time you touch a keyboard. Thanks for the grammar correction. Even the blind Squirrelings finds a nut once in a...
You insult your own intelligence every time you touch a keyboard.

Thanks for the grammar correction. Even the blind Squirrelings finds a nut once in a while.

Damn I’m good...
Squirrelings wrote:
Only thing you're good at is looking like a tool. FYI, I lived in PA until 4 years ago. I know who you are. You're a...
Only thing you're good at is looking like a tool. FYI, I lived in PA until 4 years ago. I know who you are. You're a fucking ass clown IRL as well.

Everybody I know that's ever met you thinks you're a douchebag as well. They aren't into dudes though, so I don't think you'd care what they think.
Hahah what have you been smoking bro?

Your strange fascination with homosexuality is concerning my man.
Squirrelings 7/4/2018 11:35am
7/4/2018 11:35am
BobPA wrote:
Hahah what have you been smoking bro?

Your strange fascination with homosexuality is concerning my man.
Seriously dude, give it up. I'm here to discuss moto with fellow moto people. I don't need you stalking me all over the forum in every thread you can. I'm sorry if your life is that miserable. Maybe people would like you more if you weren't such a dick. Say whatever you want man. I don't have time to waste on you and I'm not even going to bother responding anymore. It honestly amazes me that you weren't clicked a long time ago.

BobPA
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BobPA 7/4/2018 11:51am
7/4/2018 11:51am
BobPA wrote:
Hahah what have you been smoking bro?

Your strange fascination with homosexuality is concerning my man.
Squirrelings wrote:
Seriously dude, give it up. I'm here to discuss moto with fellow moto people. I don't need you stalking me all over the forum in every...
Seriously dude, give it up. I'm here to discuss moto with fellow moto people. I don't need you stalking me all over the forum in every thread you can. I'm sorry if your life is that miserable. Maybe people would like you more if you weren't such a dick. Say whatever you want man. I don't have time to waste on you and I'm not even going to bother responding anymore. It honestly amazes me that you weren't clicked a long time ago.

I am a moto guy. But you just keep calling me gay. Unprovoked I might add....

fgb729
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fgb729 7/4/2018 11:54am
7/4/2018 11:54am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2018 11:59am
MrKnowNothing wrote:
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have...
Why is it the racing in the 250 class is so much better then the 450 racing almost every year? On any 250 race we have zero idea who might win that Moto. It could be one of ten different guys. The 450s are almost always a 2 man freight train looking like synchronized riding with the rest of the pack a zip code away?
Just like any sport, the guys at the top don't change every year. Sure, there is always some natural variance, but when you've been training your whole life, at a certain point, you just are what you are within a certain range (If no racer crashes throughout his whole career, he will most definitely be better than if he had a minor injury and had to miss races every year because of it). Therefore, I think what you simply see in the 450's and overseas in MX1 is just the cream of the crop in their peak range dependent on skill, seat time overall and bike set up ability. Where as the 250s and MX2 have much more variance and so, much more outcomes.

edit: To add, I'd like to say that "the best racing" argument is really a moot point, the best racing will be where ever it ends up being, we have no choice but to enjoy it boys
newmann
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newmann 7/4/2018 12:21pm
7/4/2018 12:21pm
BobPA wrote:
Hahah what have you been smoking bro?

Your strange fascination with homosexuality is concerning my man.
Squirrelings wrote:
Seriously dude, give it up. I'm here to discuss moto with fellow moto people. I don't need you stalking me all over the forum in every...
Seriously dude, give it up. I'm here to discuss moto with fellow moto people. I don't need you stalking me all over the forum in every thread you can. I'm sorry if your life is that miserable. Maybe people would like you more if you weren't such a dick. Say whatever you want man. I don't have time to waste on you and I'm not even going to bother responding anymore. It honestly amazes me that you weren't clicked a long time ago.

Why don't you focus your anger towards the race teams and the OEM's who don't give enough of a shit about this sport to offer a well paying 450 ride to more riders. It's not real hard to figure out why people stay in a really well paying job rather than jump in the unemployment line.
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peltier626
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peltier626 7/4/2018 12:26pm
7/4/2018 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2018 1:37pm
ML said what the majority knows, the bikes can be ridden to their potential by a larger number of riders. Get rid of the 450's. Open 250cc (2 and 4 stroke) should be the premier class.
Andy_Greenney 7/4/2018 1:04pm
7/4/2018 1:04pm
Because they make the manufacturers more money in rebuilds and parts?...is that the right answer?
peltier626
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peltier626 7/4/2018 5:29pm
7/4/2018 5:29pm
Some stats from southwick. Top twenty 250f lap times averaged moto one = 2:18.787, moto two 2:19.990

Top twenty 450f lap times averaged moto one = 2:21.151, moto two 2:22.471

The 250 class is quicker than the 450 class. More power does not correlate to more speed. The limits have been reached. It seems this lesson should have been learned with the 500 two stroke, but yet history is repeating itself once again.

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