Who’s better at there prime?

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5/27/2018 7:34 PM

At the top of there game who is faster? Tough one because roczen killed it before he got hurt. I mean just so fast and now tomac is just killing it. I’m just not sure.

Who’s better at there prime

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5/27/2018 7:51 PM

A healthy Roczen in his prime beats Eli by a minute.

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5/27/2018 8:00 PM

devindavisphoto wrote:

A healthy Roczen in his prime beats Eli by a minute.

Eli pre shoulder injury was beating everyojne by a minute

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5/27/2018 8:04 PM

I think Prime Roczen has coming from behind and passing quick better than pretty much anyone I've ever seen. Meanwhile, prime Tomac has the most insane speed once he's got a relatively clear track that I've ever seen.

It's a tough one to pick since Roczen seems to have at least one big yard sale each season and Tomac always has a freak bike issue or forgets how to ride exactly one race.

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5/27/2018 8:04 PM

Are either out of there primes?? The are both still young dudes

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5/27/2018 8:19 PM

Supercross? Motocross or all in?

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5/27/2018 8:23 PM

Their

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

5/27/2018 8:27 PM

Soo hard to tell. In 2015 Eli was smoking everyone but Kenny was injured and had to miss the last 3 sx races due to jacking up his ankle and then the mx series started so hes riding injured and Tomac comes out and spanks everyone for the first 3 races before crashing. 2016 when Kenny won his last mx championship is honestly the best to go off and they were both pretty healthy although Tomac had missed the entire mx season the year before due to his shoulders in 2015 so he was definitely not at 100% either but 2016 he was battling Kenny that mx season at a few of the rounds.

Then Kenny comes out and wins the first 2 sx races of 2017 where they were both completely healthy as well but crashes in the 3rd race and then Tomac goes on to have his best sx series to date winning many races vs Dungey but not the Championship. So its hard to tell but I think other than on 250s the 2016 season is the best we have to go off of.

Both of them have always been pretty equal throughout their careers but Kenny has barely raced in the last 2 years and before he crashed he mad more sx/mx wins than Tomac and 2 mx championships vs Dungey one of them on KTM which was vs a 100% healthy Dungey. Tomac racked up pretty much all of his Sx and Mx wins recently since Kennys injury and his 1 mx championship. Kenny still has one more championship and since hes been out is when Tomac got his championship and most of his wins. I think next year or maybe even later into this MX season we may be able to see both at full strength. Kenny is still going into this season with minimal training and seat time though. So this next sx season if they both stay healthy this mx season should be where we get to see where both sit now in their careers and who is the faster guy from this point forward. I really hope Kenny gets back to form and we can see these guys battling for championships. It sux for Ken that after his injury hes kind of written off now and its the Tomac show with some Anderson on the side. Its like we forgot that Kenny was the next guy up after Dungey until it all changed that one night.

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5/27/2018 8:27 PM

devindavisphoto wrote:

A healthy Roczen in his prime beats Eli by a minute.

Stop. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. And I'm no tomac fan and am riding the roczen bandwagon big time.

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5/27/2018 8:40 PM

level wrote:

At the top of there game who is faster? Tough one because roczen killed it before he got hurt. I mean just so fast and now ...more

Their

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5/27/2018 9:24 PM

Supercross, tomac . Motocross, Kenny .

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5/27/2018 10:10 PM

I was think this watching Glen Helen. Both these guts are insane talents with a massive set. We all know just how much a dirt nape hurts let alone the style these two took. I for one know the respect I have getting back on the back after a big get of and at 44 i know i don't fuckin bounce its just a thud noise i make as take close inspection of the ground.My speed show it too but these two are amazing riding balls to the wall showing little if no respect for pain and just getting it done soon my hat goes off to both these gnarly guys and wish them both a healthy future.

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5/27/2018 11:01 PM

theirthey'rethere

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5/27/2018 11:46 PM

Roczen will unfortunately wad him self up before the end of the nationals. Homeboy can't stay healthy for either series.

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5/27/2018 11:48 PM

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- KTM SX 250 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- Canyon Spectral:ON 7.0 2019 EMTB
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

5/27/2018 11:56 PM

Not even close. Their mental game is so far apart that this one is a clear victory for Roczen.

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5/28/2018 2:35 AM

Unfortunately (being a Tomac fan) I would have to say Roczen.
He hasn’t raced outdoors in 18 months and has just come back from 2 serious injuries- very little seat time- still leads Glen Helen for 20 minutes and gets 3rd.. (in his 3rd moto back)
Roczen is that good it is unbelievable!

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5/28/2018 2:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/28/2018 2:50 AM

devindavisphoto wrote:

A healthy Roczen in his prime beats Eli by a minute.

I don't get how anyone can say definitively either is better. They've literally only faced off at 100% health in the 250 class.

2014 Tomac injured at SX, came in late and won some races, Kenny wins the title over Dungey.

2015 Tomac blows everyone out the water first three rounds, Kenny with a back injury and a new bike wasn't in the same league, Dungey wins the title.

2016 Tomac has a new bike and two bum shoulders, which surely moto wise is a bigger issue than broken arms which by Kenny's admission aren't as bad as you'd think... regardless, Eli doesn't know where Kenny is except Southwick and maybe another race or two.

2017 Tomac has it his way, even with some weird stuff but speed wise no one is a worry, while Kenny can't reach the tv remote at home.

2018 Tomac wins opening 4 motos. Kenny coming off an injury and is showing promise...

If you want to say Kenny is mentally stronger because he talks a lot of smack and Eli is quiet then I guess so, but it's not like Kenny hasn't had a brain fart or three... and some might say Eli beat him in to submission in 2013 outdoors.

Bottom line they're close as, hopefully we have a lot of years where they face off without injury like RV/Dungey because otherwise it'll be pretty lopsided.

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Cheers, Crush
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5/28/2018 4:38 AM

Motofinne wrote:

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen ...more

I would actually say the opposite. I dont think anyone has ever gone faster on a motocross track than 2015 Eli. 2016 Roczen was unbelievable, but I don't remember a time besides maybe a "Bubba on 125" race or two that someone has been so next level speedwise that it was mind blowing. Has anyone besides RC lapping the field ever won by a bigger margin? Wasn't one of Eli's 2015 motos over a minute and a half ahead of Dungey?

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5/28/2018 4:45 AM

Motofinne wrote:

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen ...more

davis224 wrote:

I would actually say the opposite. I dont think anyone has ever gone faster on a motocross track than 2015 Eli. 2016 Roczen ...more

I knew someone would bring 2015 up.

My argument to counter that is the fact that it lasted 5 motos. I'm talking about these riders in full seasons. Roczen has won every 450 outdoor series that he has participated in when he has been 100% healthy. He humiliated Tomac in 2016. I would say that one of the motos at Millville was just as impressive from Roczen as Eli in 2015.

Roczen is far from 100% right now and he was able to lead a moto for 20 minutes with Tomac putting the pressure on him for almost 20 minutes.

As for indoors. Eli has way more success indoors compared to Roczen.

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Current fleet of two wheeled vehicles:
- KTM SX 250 2020
- Suzuki GSX-R 600 K7 track spec
- Canyon Sender CF 8.0 2018 Downhill
- Canyon Spectral:ON 7.0 2019 EMTB
- White GX Pro 20 Gravel

5/28/2018 5:29 AM

devindavisphoto wrote:

A healthy Roczen in his prime beats Eli by a minute.

Crush wrote:

I don't get how anyone can say definitively either is better. They've literally only faced off at 100% health in the 250 ...more

^^^^^This

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5/28/2018 5:58 AM

Motofinne wrote:

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen ...more

davis224 wrote:

I would actually say the opposite. I dont think anyone has ever gone faster on a motocross track than 2015 Eli. 2016 Roczen ...more

Motofinne wrote:

I knew someone would bring 2015 up.

My argument to counter that is the fact that it lasted 5 motos. I'm talking about these ...more

I agree, it did last only 5 motos, but we're talking about "in their prime", meaning a one time, one on one showdown with each at their best. I think Roczen's blast through the field at Millville is one of the most impressive rides in recent memory, and I believe Eli couldn't have done the same, he's not as good at knifing through a crowded track. But Tomac's ceiling with a clear track is insane, so if you were to line up 2016 Roczen with 2015 Eli, head to head, I think Eli would take it in my opinion. Over a series? That's a different conversation.

I do feel like Eli was just being patient in the first moto at Glen Helen, it was awesome that Roczen was able to lead for 20 minutes, but I do think that Eli was in his comfort zone, not wanting a repeat of last year. I'm no fanboy of any one rider though, I hope Roczen heals quick, Bagget finds his old pace, Anderson to get in moto shape, and Musquin to find that little bit extra and all start beating/pushing Tomac so we have an awesome season!

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5/29/2018 2:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/29/2018 2:44 PM

I think it's a great question, but honestly you have to admit that this is the rivalry of this generation. These two have been back and forth for most of their lives (literally) and neither is clearly better than the other.



They push each other like only they can.

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5/29/2018 2:53 PM

Which day? Which track?

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5/29/2018 3:41 PM

Motofinne wrote:

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen ...more

Eli was still recovering in the 2016 season. The improvement in Supercross from 2016 to 2017 is enough evidence of that. Kenny won that 2016 outdoors championship convincingly but he didn't humiliate Eli. Eli got him in 250s in 2013 if you remember.

Outdoors if they are both at 100% speed I think Eli has the edge but it's close. I hope we get to see it next year because those guys are both very special.

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5/29/2018 3:49 PM

Eli is healthy and in the zone. Can he stay there...50/50. Kenny is surprisingly strong for what he's been through. It's Eli's to throw away but Kenny should only get stronger. Gonna be an interesting summer. Marvin is there to pick up the pieces...he's learned from the RD's.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

5/29/2018 3:55 PM

Motofinne wrote:

Outdoors? Roczen, i don't see how anyone could argue for Tomac.

Indoors? Tomac, i don't see how anyone could argue for Roczen ...more

davis224 wrote:

I would actually say the opposite. I dont think anyone has ever gone faster on a motocross track than 2015 Eli. 2016 Roczen ...more

Motofinne wrote:

I knew someone would bring 2015 up.

My argument to counter that is the fact that it lasted 5 motos. I'm talking about these ...more

You also have to remember that Roczen used to be so bad at complete seasons. Once he reached the halfway mark he would fall apart. Happened in 2014 SX and MX, and in 2013 Tomac was clearly much better outdoors.

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5/29/2018 3:56 PM

Raw speed id have to go with tomac. 2015 tomac was nothing to mess with, by anyone anywhere

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5/29/2018 4:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/29/2018 4:06 PM

If we're talking who's faster at their best like the OP said then I go Tomac all day. Over the course of a season? Hard to argue with the season Roczen put together in 2016.

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5/29/2018 4:50 PM

Kenny

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