Who takes title jett- j coop

motomike137
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motomike137 8/24/2021 4:33am
8/24/2021 4:33am
Maverick313 wrote:
I thought you were referencing the strength of his skill level, not his actual ability to muscle the bike around. But I don't think muscle is...
I thought you were referencing the strength of his skill level, not his actual ability to muscle the bike around.

But I don't think muscle is what makes Jett fast.

I think it's an ingredient in his riding more so than Cooper. Justin seems like he hangs off the back and is bent over more and Jet seems more up right and forward using leverage. I could be dead wrong though lol.
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wrc777
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wrc777 8/24/2021 5:06am
8/24/2021 5:06am
I don't even mean necessarily to muscle the bike. I am talking about bike control. Jett is more fluid, and it looks for lack of a better term easier for him. When the bike hits a hole or rut hard and moves it looks planned whereas Cooper looks like he is reacting more.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 8/24/2021 5:18am
8/24/2021 5:18am
wrc777 wrote:
I don't even mean necessarily to muscle the bike. I am talking about bike control. Jett is more fluid, and it looks for lack of a...
I don't even mean necessarily to muscle the bike. I am talking about bike control. Jett is more fluid, and it looks for lack of a better term easier for him. When the bike hits a hole or rut hard and moves it looks planned whereas Cooper looks like he is reacting more.
Your point is invalid. Does not matter what they look like. They are both on the edge. Kevin Windham looked smoother and more in control than RC.
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motonation24 8/24/2021 5:43am
8/24/2021 5:43am
Mavetism wrote:
I think my money is on Jett. He had 2 bad motos so far (crashes at Southwick and Spring Creek) vs. one crash from Cooper at...
I think my money is on Jett. He had 2 bad motos so far (crashes at Southwick and Spring Creek) vs. one crash from Cooper at Washougal and he is still right up there.
If they go into the last moto with less than a ten point difference this could get really fucking entertaining.
Either way both are riding really good right now, Jett just needs better starts and Cooper better second motos.

Jmart has to bite himself, this could have been an awesome three man battle.
Cooper crashed over the finish line at Red Bud too whilst leading.
These second moto’s are probably getting in Coopers head a bit now and will probably be feeling the pressure to perform. Jett has been pretty clutch, just needs to start with Coop and he’s good.
Will be interesting to see how Jmart reacts from here on out.. does he ‘let coop bye’? Every point matters now

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motonation24 8/24/2021 5:48am
8/24/2021 5:48am
Jardo wrote:
I would give my left nut for them to be tied in points heading into the final Moto 2.
wrc777 wrote:
Barring crashes or DNFs they are going to be really close in points by the time that last moto starts.
Thanks Captain…
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Rupert X
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Rupert X 8/24/2021 6:17am
8/24/2021 6:17am
When dad lets you ride up front. Because you been best boy.

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str8line
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str8line 8/24/2021 6:36am
8/24/2021 6:36am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2021 7:32am
Jett has a interesting technique, very straight legs and lots of hip angulation. He really drops his hip into the turns, with a lot of upper body counter-rotation. Like modern ski racing technique.
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c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 8/24/2021 7:41am
8/24/2021 7:41am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2021 7:45am
It's tough to say. I'm going to say Cooper wins it purely based off of his ability to start top 3 in what seems like every single moto.

Cooper has insane speed when the track is smooth in the 1st moto. When the track becomes more rough and technical in the 2nd moto is when he struggles.
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Chris_Buehler 8/24/2021 8:22am
8/24/2021 8:22am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2021 8:24am
Anyone catch Mathes saying he thought Coop has a thumb injury on Pulp last night?
Chris_Buehler 8/24/2021 8:23am
8/24/2021 8:23am
str8line wrote:
Jett has a interesting technique, very straight legs and lots of hip angulation. He really drops his hip into the turns, with a lot of upper...
Jett has a interesting technique, very straight legs and lots of hip angulation. He really drops his hip into the turns, with a lot of upper body counter-rotation. Like modern ski racing technique.
That's a perfect description. Especially the reference to skiing. When AJ shows proper body positioning off the bike it totally looks like a skiing technique
SilverSpurs
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SilverSpurs 8/24/2021 8:24am
8/24/2021 8:24am
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
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MotoMan12345
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MotoMan12345 8/24/2021 8:37am
8/24/2021 8:37am
Mavetism wrote:
I think my money is on Jett. He had 2 bad motos so far (crashes at Southwick and Spring Creek) vs. one crash from Cooper at...
I think my money is on Jett. He had 2 bad motos so far (crashes at Southwick and Spring Creek) vs. one crash from Cooper at Washougal and he is still right up there.
If they go into the last moto with less than a ten point difference this could get really fucking entertaining.
Either way both are riding really good right now, Jett just needs better starts and Cooper better second motos.

Jmart has to bite himself, this could have been an awesome three man battle.
If jmart stays healthy he’s winning by a lot right now. But that’s part of it
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MotoMan12345
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MotoMan12345 8/24/2021 8:37am
8/24/2021 8:37am
If Jett can get his moto 1s dialed he’s got this title. Coop forgets how to ride in the second motos I guess
mx 219
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mx 219 8/24/2021 9:00am
8/24/2021 9:00am
I am wondering if the Washougal crash will hurt Cooper. That was his chance to really grab the championship and when he crashed out of second that moto it was an 11 point swing. A 14 pt gap right now isn't insurmountable by any means, but certainly better than 3 points.
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Creiz
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Creiz 8/24/2021 9:06am
8/24/2021 9:06am
Not even close. OFC its Jett
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 8/24/2021 9:11am
8/24/2021 9:11am
Creiz wrote:
Not even close. OFC its Jett
Actually, it is quite close. If Jett was the clear favorite, he'd be in the points lead.
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soggy
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soggy 8/24/2021 9:54am
8/24/2021 9:54am
J coop has a huge advantage because he holeshots consistently.
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Chris_Buehler 8/24/2021 10:33am
8/24/2021 10:33am
mx 219 wrote:
I am wondering if the Washougal crash will hurt Cooper. That was his chance to really grab the championship and when he crashed out of second...
I am wondering if the Washougal crash will hurt Cooper. That was his chance to really grab the championship and when he crashed out of second that moto it was an 11 point swing. A 14 pt gap right now isn't insurmountable by any means, but certainly better than 3 points.
Mathes is convinced he has a thumb injury but nobody will admit it

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8500rpm
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8500rpm 8/24/2021 10:47am
8/24/2021 10:47am
soggy wrote:
J coop has a huge advantage because he holeshots consistently.
Yups, if he holeshots the rest of the motos left I think he will take it. He is an amazing starter or the Yamahas are amazing.

I don't get it, doesn't they need to control wheelspin the first 30feet, in that case Yamahas hp advantage cannot be an advantage or?

If its 'only' the star riders then they are worth the title, they all are very very good starters compared to the rest who are up and down. The star riders don't seem to ever get really bad starts.

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RalphS
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RalphS 8/24/2021 10:14pm
8/24/2021 10:14pm
Fernandez takes it.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 8/24/2021 10:48pm
8/24/2021 10:48pm
I'd say that Cooper is the slight favorite. He has the points lead and most important the better starts.

I think they are pretty close otherwise but Cooper makes his life much easier with the starts compared to Jett.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/25/2021 12:49am
8/25/2021 12:49am
SilverSpurs wrote:
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times. I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett...
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
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SilverSpurs
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SilverSpurs 8/25/2021 2:31am
8/25/2021 2:31am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2021 2:35am
SilverSpurs wrote:
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times. I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett...
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
kiwifan wrote:
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot...
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has the greater power.

Aside from that there is anecdotal evidence from dynos that the Yamaha has more peak horsepower and more under the curve than the Honda; track performance is hard to judge but there is a consensus.

From what I saw at Thunder Valley the Kawasaki's might also out power the Honda.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/25/2021 3:28am
8/25/2021 3:28am
SilverSpurs wrote:
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times. I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett...
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
kiwifan wrote:
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot...
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
SilverSpurs wrote:
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has...
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has the greater power.

Aside from that there is anecdotal evidence from dynos that the Yamaha has more peak horsepower and more under the curve than the Honda; track performance is hard to judge but there is a consensus.

From what I saw at Thunder Valley the Kawasaki's might also out power the Honda.
can you share the factory dyno reports?
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SilverSpurs
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SilverSpurs 8/25/2021 3:55am
8/25/2021 3:55am
kiwifan wrote:
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot...
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
SilverSpurs wrote:
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has...
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has the greater power.

Aside from that there is anecdotal evidence from dynos that the Yamaha has more peak horsepower and more under the curve than the Honda; track performance is hard to judge but there is a consensus.

From what I saw at Thunder Valley the Kawasaki's might also out power the Honda.
kiwifan wrote:
can you share the factory dyno reports?
Sorry, I wish I had proper power information from a countershaft dyno Kiwi.

As I said what I've read is anecdotal- and people talk headline numbers not what is under the curve.
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fourfourone 8/25/2021 4:45am
8/25/2021 4:45am
SilverSpurs wrote:
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times. I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett...
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
kiwifan wrote:
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot...
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
Plenty of 250 riders have openly admitted that the star bikes have more power. its been said how hard it is to keep up with the star bikes on the steep uphill sections.
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DGE.532
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DGE.532 8/25/2021 2:57pm
8/25/2021 2:57pm
I know it's been a few weeks but that was a pretty nasty spill cooper took at Washougal. Be surprised if he hasn't been dealing with some after effects
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motomike137
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motomike137 8/25/2021 3:40pm
8/25/2021 3:40pm
SilverSpurs wrote:
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times. I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett...
Jett has convincingly passed Justin (and Jeremy) for position or the lead several times.

I cannot recall Justin making a sticking pass for position on Jett.

Justin's Yamaha is a faster bike and his unerring starts are his mainstay.
kiwifan wrote:
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot...
Sorry I disagree that the Yamaha is a faster bike, I think that both the factory bikes look pretty darn even to me. You certainly cannot say one bike is faster because the rider does better starts - before that is said.
SilverSpurs wrote:
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has...
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has the greater power.

Aside from that there is anecdotal evidence from dynos that the Yamaha has more peak horsepower and more under the curve than the Honda; track performance is hard to judge but there is a consensus.

From what I saw at Thunder Valley the Kawasaki's might also out power the Honda.
There is much more to getting great starts than just a bike with more horsepower. They could have advantages in their mapping, the YZ chassis could be a little easier to launch with and lets not forget that some racers are just natural born holeshot artists. I think Cooper might get good starts on damn near any bike.
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gerg
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gerg 8/25/2021 3:47pm
8/25/2021 3:47pm
The problem for Jett isn't that Justin is getting great starts, it's that Jett (with the exception of the last 2 rounds) is getting bad starts.
Ending up in 15th after the start and being out-dragged by privateers as well when you are on a factory HRC, the problem isn't the bike.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/25/2021 5:38pm
8/25/2021 5:38pm
SilverSpurs wrote:
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has...
Given riders of close to equal ability and weight, numerous 200 yard or so drag races are a fairly reliable way to judge which bike has the greater power.

Aside from that there is anecdotal evidence from dynos that the Yamaha has more peak horsepower and more under the curve than the Honda; track performance is hard to judge but there is a consensus.

From what I saw at Thunder Valley the Kawasaki's might also out power the Honda.
kiwifan wrote:
can you share the factory dyno reports?
SilverSpurs wrote:
Sorry, I wish I had proper power information from a countershaft dyno Kiwi. As I said what I've read is anecdotal- and people talk headline numbers...
Sorry, I wish I had proper power information from a countershaft dyno Kiwi.

As I said what I've read is anecdotal- and people talk headline numbers not what is under the curve.
Anecdotal evidence is usually based on individual experiences or observations, as distinct from probabilistic (and real) evidence that gives estimates of how likely something is to occur based on experience with large numbers of people.

I prefer to see actual factual evidence from dynos that you say is out there, to say otherwise is merely an opinion formed to firm up an argument that suits yourself and others who agree with you.
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