Who enforces the rules??

MXER231
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8/8/2012 9:52am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2012 6:50pm
Who enforces the rules for the C class at AMA races? I normally wouldnt care cause I ride A but I think this has gotten
out of hand. There are a few kids from my area that made LL in C and I know they have been racing for more than 2 years.
Its not really my place to say anything to them so I keep quite. I was curious how hard it would be to find info on these kids
and come to find out its quite easy. I googled a few names in the 250 C from LL and all had articles stating that they have been riding since the age of 4 or 5. Like I said before I normally could care less about this but I see this hurting the sport. MX is not only my favorite thing to do but Its how I make a living with working in a shop and teaching mx schools. Can anyone answer why the AMA just lets it happen?? Its a bad look from someone looking into the sport and they see that cheating is
tolerated.
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reded
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8/8/2012 9:59am
MXER231 wrote:
Who enforces the rules for the C class at AMA races? I normally wouldnt care cause I ride A but I think this has gotten out...
Who enforces the rules for the C class at AMA races? I normally wouldnt care cause I ride A but I think this has gotten
out of hand. There are a few kids from my area that made LL in C and I know they have been racing for more than 2 years.
Its not really my place to say anything to them so I keep quite. I was curious how hard it would be to find info on these kids
and come to find out its quite easy. I googled a few names in the 250 C from LL and all had articles stating that they have been riding since the age of 4 or 5. Like I said before I normally could care less about this but I see this hurting the sport. MX is not only my favorite thing to do but Its how I make a living with working in a shop and teaching mx schools. Can anyone answer why the AMA just lets it happen?? Its a bad look from someone looking into the sport and they see that cheating is
tolerated.
(pssst) it starts with an "e".
MXER231
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8/8/2012 10:00am
sorry im no english major
4stroke4DWIN
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8/8/2012 10:32am Edited Date/Time 8/8/2012 1:32pm
MXER231 wrote:
sorry im no english major
MXER, sorry but you won't get an intelligent response from most the jack-asses on here. So take it with a grain of salt. Personally I think it all comes down to the all mighty dollar and for the most part peoples lack of INTEGRITY In A lot of peoples eyes its better to get a 1st in C than an 8th in B. People would rather hit the EZ button than put in the work and dedication to EARN a win/sponsor. These days companies will sponsor ANYONE with heartbeat, it earns them income and followers.

The Shop

steveada
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8/8/2012 11:32am
I have no problem with kids riding since they were 5 years old and going into C when they get on big bikes. If they haven't done well enough on little bikes to get to Lorrettas or point out, then let them race C. If they are that good, they will gain confidence on the big bike and point out in a year. Too many people have the idea that C class is somehow based on how long you have ridden. The classes are based on skill level, and there are a ton of people who will never move beyond being a C level rider. All of that is within the rules, If you want something different you have to push to change the rules.
WTF?
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8/8/2012 7:05pm
Apparently, no one enforces the rule. The 2012 250 C stock champion, Axell Hodges, was advanced to B in 2011 and still showed up to LL in the C class (which he has been winning regularly in for over 3 years). Somehow, his sponsors all still back him and throw money at him for cheating the system. It seems to be a matter of who you know with regards to who has to follow the rules. Go Defon Media- you guys rock!!
wardy
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8/8/2012 8:42pm
you have my couriosity up now.
WTF?
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8/9/2012 5:04am
wardy wrote:
you have my couriosity up now.
I have been waiting for DC to offer some input into why this was allowed to occur.....seems that being Dirt Shark's brother has a certain set of advantages.
steveada
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8/9/2012 5:09am
I don't know him from Adam, but he is not listed in the 2011 or 2012 rider advancement on the mxsports web site. He also has no results for racing an ama event prior to 2011, and then he only raced 1 ama event that has results recorded. If he has been racing and dominating a long time in the C class, it must be at local, non-sanctioned races.
newmann
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8/9/2012 5:56am
Pussification of America. C Class Champion of the World.....
WTF?
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8/9/2012 6:51am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2012 6:52am
steveada wrote:
I don't know him from Adam, but he is not listed in the 2011 or 2012 rider advancement on the mxsports web site. He also has...
I don't know him from Adam, but he is not listed in the 2011 or 2012 rider advancement on the mxsports web site. He also has no results for racing an ama event prior to 2011, and then he only raced 1 ama event that has results recorded. If he has been racing and dominating a long time in the C class, it must be at local, non-sanctioned races.
Here ya go- it is pretty clear cut!

http://www.tracksideresults.com/oakhill/racer.asp?n=10521

GNC Rules:
7. C CLASS: If you have ever finished in the top 5 at any National on any size bike (Whitney, Oak Hill, World Mini, Ponca City, Loretta Lynn or Mini O’s) you are not eligible for the “C” class. SEE CLASS DETAIL SHEET FOR CLASS ELIGIBILITY.

AMA Rules:
4. Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any
AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in
permanent advancement to that higher class (in like
activity) in all AMA-sanctioned competition. (Like activity =
MX to MX or Enduro to Enduro, etc.)

There is nothing to argue here- He finished top 5 at a national in 2011. Therefore, the GNC (a 'non-AMA activity) advanced him to B class at the end of the 2011 season. So, according to the AMA rules this was a 'permanent advancement'. However, he must have felt that since he had 'connections' these rules did not apply to him. Shame on BTO, Fox Racing, Defcon Media, DC Shoes, Spy Optics and any of the other companies that place results at a higher standard than fair play.
MXER231
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8/9/2012 7:30am
nov·ice (nvs)
n.
1. A person new to a field or activity; a beginner.

I believe that if you have been racing dirtbikes for 3-4 years AMA sanctioned or not you are not a novice aka beginner.
GrapeApe
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8/9/2012 7:58am
Why do we have to have multiple C class sandbagging threads every year? 95% of the C class winners are never heard from again on the national level. You know why? Because they were in the freakin' C class! Let them have their minute before they move on to get 23rd in the B class next year, if they even qualify.

In short, who cares.
WTF?
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8/9/2012 8:10am
GrapeApe wrote:
Why do we have to have multiple C class sandbagging threads every year? 95% of the C class winners are never heard from again on the...
Why do we have to have multiple C class sandbagging threads every year? 95% of the C class winners are never heard from again on the national level. You know why? Because they were in the freakin' C class! Let them have their minute before they move on to get 23rd in the B class next year, if they even qualify.

In short, who cares.
I see your point. But, that said, this jackass is taking sponsorship money and contingency money based on the finishes that he cheated other riders out of. I hope his karma comes up to bite him....
brocster
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8/9/2012 8:23am
MXER231 wrote:
nov·ice (nvs) n. 1. A person new to a field or activity; a beginner. I believe that if you have been racing dirtbikes for 3-4 years...
nov·ice (nvs)
n.
1. A person new to a field or activity; a beginner.

I believe that if you have been racing dirtbikes for 3-4 years AMA sanctioned or not you are not a novice aka beginner.
unfortunately Jake, People that are looking to skirt the system know the rules better than the system authors. Much like the world we live in outside of motocross. i.e. welfare...

where they (novice, C) find loopholes is in the definition of novice there are words like new and beginner so they must be defined as well and so on until it fits their needs. it's sad!

last, most "believe" the same as you but if the belief is not it the rules it will get skirted.

again.....sad!
WTF?
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8/9/2012 8:30am
brocster wrote:
unfortunately Jake, People that are looking to skirt the system know the rules better than the system authors. Much like the world we live in outside...
unfortunately Jake, People that are looking to skirt the system know the rules better than the system authors. Much like the world we live in outside of motocross. i.e. welfare...

where they (novice, C) find loopholes is in the definition of novice there are words like new and beginner so they must be defined as well and so on until it fits their needs. it's sad!

last, most "believe" the same as you but if the belief is not it the rules it will get skirted.

again.....sad!
He didn't 'skirt' the rules- he flat out BROKE the rules. But, because he has a brother who knows people who know people he was allowed to get away with it. I guess that is how the world works though....
j100
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8/9/2012 8:30am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2012 8:31am
does anyone even watch the C class or even care who wins it?

i could give a shit less who won the C class.

let me even go further, who won the C class last year and how did they do in the B class this year? riiiiight.... they did nothing, so who gives a shit about them.
WTF?
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8/9/2012 8:37am
Actually, Ryan Surratt won it last year. This year he got 2nd in Schoolboy I, and 8th in 250B stock.... a little better than 'nothing' I hope Axell does not do quite so well next year, I hope the B riders punt him all over the track and treat him like the little bitch that he is.
peelout
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8/9/2012 8:45am
for the record, i care nothing for this C class debate.

but, every Dirt Shark video is almost as original as a Carlos Mencia joke.
WTF?
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8/9/2012 8:48am
peelout wrote:
for the record, i care nothing for this C class debate. but, every Dirt Shark video is almost as original as a Carlos Mencia joke.
for the record, i care nothing for this C class debate.

but, every Dirt Shark video is almost as original as a Carlos Mencia joke.
I agree... they are boring as hell.... maybe soon Dirt Shark and his brother will be sharing a cardboard box together in an area prone to mudslides!!!
flarider
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8/9/2012 8:50am
How irrelevant is a C class championship?

only one rider has ever won a C class title and gone on to win a 2nd title at LL's, and that rider no longer races.
Also, only one rider won C class and went on to pro success, that was Jeremy McGrath

Point is, winning C class means dick.
Been what, 31 years of LL's, so there's been well over 100 winners of C classes, and the rate of success of those riders is 1%?

Who cares, winning C class is more of a curse than a blessing
GrapeApe
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8/9/2012 9:05am
Just checked and homey collected $1,000 in Honda contingency for winning the C class! I'm going to assume a fake identity and race C class next year!
WeiserGuy
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8/9/2012 9:20am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2012 9:22am
Downandup that's kinda hard these days when you have mini riders with salary based gear contracts.. Plain and simple its a business with $$ to be made in "amatuer" racing if your good enough..

Did Sleeter @ Abbott run the pro sport class??
newmann
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8/9/2012 9:35am
WeiserGuy wrote:
Downandup that's kinda hard these days when you have mini riders with salary based gear contracts.. Plain and simple its a business with $$ to be...
Downandup that's kinda hard these days when you have mini riders with salary based gear contracts.. Plain and simple its a business with $$ to be made in "amatuer" racing if your good enough..

Did Sleeter @ Abbott run the pro sport class??
if your good enough..

...and lack enough pride.
downandup
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8/9/2012 9:35am
WeiserGuy wrote:
Downandup that's kinda hard these days when you have mini riders with salary based gear contracts.. Plain and simple its a business with $$ to be...
Downandup that's kinda hard these days when you have mini riders with salary based gear contracts.. Plain and simple its a business with $$ to be made in "amatuer" racing if your good enough..

Did Sleeter @ Abbott run the pro sport class??
I totally understand what you're saying! The kids these days are pros! Look at AC!

Sleeter won the 2 stroke and raced +25 amateurs, Abbott raced + 25 amateurs.
WeiserGuy
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8/9/2012 10:34am
Newmann, I wasn't referring to C class riders on making salary.. I understand your "lack enough pride" comment.. Understand racing nationally is more expensive than ever so answer this question. Would you turn down $$ or paid expenses if your child was good enough to be offered them instead of draining lil Joey's college fund or refinancing hoping he makes it big?

I have a funny story of 3 highly touted national mini riders from the same area being bounced from minis to A class.. Some rival competition from a neighborimg state caught wind that they(while still on minis) had taken $ in jump contests, dash for cash races @ straight up receiving money(entree fee back) instead of trophies.. All of these violations occurred at an unsanctioned outlaw race track with no evidence proving guilt, just hear say.. Needless to say all 3 riders were moved to A class with only a couple big bike races under their belts, not a question asked or chance to appeal.


I thought if you had qualified for a pro national or SX main then you were eligible for PRO SPORT classes only.. You could still run A classes as a pro card holder as long as you never qualified for a main.. might be different now
brocster
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8/9/2012 10:43am
idea for vet classes = 4 total. Three age groups on each side of the cut. Age at the time of the National.

+25 to 40 Amateur! B,C,D, Whatever you want to call it. If you can make it you're in.
+25 to 40 Pro! Current, Ex, or A with documented AMA sanctioned event finish. Policed by the amateurs!

+40 Amateur! B,C,D, Whatever you want to call it. If you can make it you are in.
+40 Pro! Current, Ex, or A with documented AMA sanctioned event finish. Policed by the amateurs!

A few people brought up doing away with the C classes and I first I was against it but now I see the forest through the trees. They are all B anyway. I feel certain that there are few to no newbs (racing less than 1,2 or 3 years) unless they are on little bikes, pulling in a Lorrettas anyway.

Whatcha think?

Fire Away!!!!!!
steveada
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8/9/2012 10:53am
flarider wrote:
How irrelevant is a C class championship? only one rider has ever won a C class title and gone on to win a 2nd title at...
How irrelevant is a C class championship?

only one rider has ever won a C class title and gone on to win a 2nd title at LL's, and that rider no longer races.
Also, only one rider won C class and went on to pro success, that was Jeremy McGrath

Point is, winning C class means dick.
Been what, 31 years of LL's, so there's been well over 100 winners of C classes, and the rate of success of those riders is 1%?

Who cares, winning C class is more of a curse than a blessing
This statistic kind of supports the idea that the system is working. Classes are essentially based on skill level, not experience, or how long you have ridden. There is no novice or beginner class in the AMA. The fact that only 1 C rider has ever been successful as a pro kind of proves it. Someone who has not had enough success by the time they are on big bikes to be moved up to B class, is way, way behind the 8 ball, and will likely never catch up enough to reach the highest level. Sure, it's kind of like being the captain of the baseball team made up of all the kids nobody else picked to be on their team, but still making it to that level at LL's is a pretty hefty accomplishment for most of these kids. I know the only reason those on this site who never made it to LL's didn't make it was because you were too proud to ride in the C class and started racing in the B class, but cut them a little slack. Not everybody who throws their leg over a bike is destined to be the next RC.
brocster
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8/9/2012 10:59am
WeiserGuy wrote:
Newmann, I wasn't referring to C class riders on making salary.. I understand your "lack enough pride" comment.. Understand racing nationally is more expensive than ever...
Newmann, I wasn't referring to C class riders on making salary.. I understand your "lack enough pride" comment.. Understand racing nationally is more expensive than ever so answer this question. Would you turn down $$ or paid expenses if your child was good enough to be offered them instead of draining lil Joey's college fund or refinancing hoping he makes it big?

I have a funny story of 3 highly touted national mini riders from the same area being bounced from minis to A class.. Some rival competition from a neighborimg state caught wind that they(while still on minis) had taken $ in jump contests, dash for cash races @ straight up receiving money(entree fee back) instead of trophies.. All of these violations occurred at an unsanctioned outlaw race track with no evidence proving guilt, just hear say.. Needless to say all 3 riders were moved to A class with only a couple big bike races under their belts, not a question asked or chance to appeal.


I thought if you had qualified for a pro national or SX main then you were eligible for PRO SPORT classes only.. You could still run A classes as a pro card holder as long as you never qualified for a main.. might be different now
1) My point exactly what "C" rider races nationally. We have gates full of them here that aren't getting out a 50 mile radius. Don't know too many parents that are going to travel nationally to watch "Brandon's first race"

2) Live by the sword, die by the sword. Had it not been an outlaw event they wouldn't have been outlaws.

3) If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd......If you try to qualify for a PRO National/SX which requires a PRO license that you had to acquire enough "A" points to receive you are a PRO and should race Pro Sport only. "A" class should be for riders that pointed out of "B"
mxbum
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8/9/2012 12:27pm
flarider wrote:
How irrelevant is a C class championship? only one rider has ever won a C class title and gone on to win a 2nd title at...
How irrelevant is a C class championship?

only one rider has ever won a C class title and gone on to win a 2nd title at LL's, and that rider no longer races.
Also, only one rider won C class and went on to pro success, that was Jeremy McGrath

Point is, winning C class means dick.
Been what, 31 years of LL's, so there's been well over 100 winners of C classes, and the rate of success of those riders is 1%?

Who cares, winning C class is more of a curse than a blessing
Dave: Is the one rider that went on to win another title, Mike Corder or Shaun Skinner?
I realize that it does not change the overall stats much, but there were 2 riders that won the C class and came back to win another class.

bruce

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