Whiskey Throttle Show

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1/15/2019 7:01 PM

Bones Bacon:

"Suspension only accounts for 25-30 percent of feel, the chassis is the rest"


I've been preaching this over and over and over.

But to hear if from a man that knows far more than myself - and has had such an incredible career with distinguished results, and riders - was nice.

I'll keep preaching but hopefully this didn't fall on deaf ears in that show.

A big question arises - how much of this chassis feel can we influence with bolt ons?

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1/15/2019 7:06 PM

I think most riders would be surprised the difference they’d feel if they went back and forth between a wheel set with say a production class rim and stiffer rims such as A60s or DID ST-Xs...there’s a reason why many teams opt for a “mid grade” wheel over the toughest/stiffest available option.

I think it can be overlooked how much items like rims and triple clamps not only effect feel but what kind of load is placed on the suspension itself.

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1/15/2019 7:10 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

Bones Bacon:

"Suspension only accounts for 25-30 percent of feel, the chassis is the rest"


I've been preaching this over and over and over.

But to hear if from a man that knows far more than myself - and has had such an incredible career with distinguished results, and riders - was nice.

I'll keep preaching but hopefully this didn't fall on deaf ears in that show.

A big question arises - how much of this chassis feel can we influence with bolt ons?

Yamaha seems to have made a difference on the 19 with Axle lugs and spacers. All the media guys say they can really feel it.

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1/15/2019 7:33 PM

ML512 wrote:

I think most riders would be surprised the difference they’d feel if they went back and forth between a wheel set with say a production class rim and stiffer rims such as A60s or DID ST-Xs...there’s a reason why many teams opt for a “mid grade” wheel over the toughest/stiffest available option.

I think it can be overlooked how much items like rims and triple clamps not only effect feel but what kind of load is placed on the suspension itself.

I agree

I posted this in a different thread - but ktm spokes are nearly DOUBLE the tension spec as a crf stock to stock.

The stiffness of the wheel is largely deterimined by spoke tension - so that is just 1 element of why the ktm may feel harsher to some.

But the frame is a huge role too - you can transplant yzf forks on a ktm - and still not get a yzf feel.

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1/15/2019 9:01 PM

ML512 wrote:

I think most riders would be surprised the difference they’d feel if they went back and forth between a wheel set with say a production class rim and stiffer rims such as A60s or DID ST-Xs...there’s a reason why many teams opt for a “mid grade” wheel over the toughest/stiffest available option.

I think it can be overlooked how much items like rims and triple clamps not only effect feel but what kind of load is placed on the suspension itself.

Derek Harris wrote:

I agree

I posted this in a different thread - but ktm spokes are nearly DOUBLE the tension spec as a crf stock to stock.

The stiffness of the wheel is largely deterimined by spoke tension - so that is just 1 element of why the ktm may feel harsher to some.

But the frame is a huge role too - you can transplant yzf forks on a ktm - and still not get a yzf feel.

I’ve made a similar comment about fork feel and frame flex. My example is a SFF type air fork feeling different from a bike to bike. Showa’s SFF TAC on a Honda or Suzuki with a more “rigid” frame wasn’t the easiest to setup or maintain but I felt on the KXF it was easier to get the feeling I needed. I never chalked that up to the setting as much as the extra give the Kawi frame had over the other two. And albeit Yamaha never came with them stock, the PSF1 air fork would have fairer okay on it in my opinion. When working with KYB some of the best feedback with that fork came from Yamaha teams and Star Racing is still using them to this day.

I always felt the reason the AER48 air fork was okay on the KTM and Husky was due to the extra flex in the headstay as it felt like it allowed the front end to flex and follow the ground more. But o ntheir newest gen frame where they reinforced that area of the frame more, the front end feel with a AER is definitely worse for me...

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1/15/2019 9:55 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

Bones Bacon:

"Suspension only accounts for 25-30 percent of feel, the chassis is the rest"


I've been preaching this over and over and over.

But to hear if from a man that knows far more than myself - and has had such an incredible career with distinguished results, and riders - was nice.

I'll keep preaching but hopefully this didn't fall on deaf ears in that show.

A big question arises - how much of this chassis feel can we influence with bolt ons?

Great insight on these shows!

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1/15/2019 10:11 PM

Just finished the Bones show, was great. Matthes has been trying to get Bones on for a bit, cool stories!

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Cheers, Crush
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1/16/2019 7:40 AM

I wish someone would mount a high speed camera on a bike and rip through a rough section to visibly see the frame flex.

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