Which way is this rider whipping?

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10/9/2019 11:12 AM

Hmmmm. This one depends on your perception. As a rider, I would say "to the left," since that is the direction of travel he is initiating to do the whip. Then again, a casual viewer would view the rear tire going to the right, so I can see the majority's point.
I consider this "left," however.

Like the discussions about seat bouncing and double vs. triple, I don't think this is going to get solved on Vital. sad

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Braaapin' aint easy.

10/9/2019 11:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 11:15 AM

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

Well, technically speaking, this is axial rotation or, more specifically, Euler rotation.

Photo

If this were being compared to an airplane's Euler rotation (a fair analogy), the plane, in this case, would be rolled to the left (negative), with negative yaw (tail end pitched forward). If it were being rolled to the right with positive yaw, the ass end would be facing to the left and forward from it's original starting point.

In conclusion: the bike has a negative roll (to the left) and negative yaw (ass-end pitched forward from it's original starting point). Just think of this as a gyroscope.

Just imagine you have a gyroscope in your hand. In order to mimic what's happening in this picture, you would roll the gyroscope to the left and pitch it forward.

You can go ahead and close this thread now.

aeffertz wrote:

Not a fair analogy. The rider and bike are not a single rigid object, they move independently from each other. Your body is leaning left to whip the bike to the right.

The wheels are acting as gyros. You use your weight off too the side of the bike to rotate the bike about its y axis. The gyro of the wheel results in the rotation of the bike about its z axis.

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10/9/2019 11:21 AM

Travis_Hudson wrote:

Whipping to the left or right is the direction you are leaning.

Mr. Afterbar wrote:

Then why is it called a whip, not a lean? The direction of a whip is the side in which the back end of the bike is whipped from the center point (your front wheel since you don't whip the front end). This is so preposterously stupid. Amazed that that people could think this way. Ask anybody pro (or person with a brain) this question and you'll be proven wrong.

Travis_Hudson wrote:

Well, i was a pro, and everyone i ever talked to referred to it this way..so...i guess agree to disagree?

Been at this since 4 years old (30 years, didn't bother getting my pro card) and I've never once heard somebody refer to a whip because of the direction of leaning. It's literally called a whip as in the bike is whipped to one side. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but I'll go with the majority on this one.

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10/9/2019 11:26 AM

You don't "lean a whip", you "throw a whip", ala, "throwing" the bike out to one side. Whipping to the right.

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10/9/2019 11:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 11:34 AM

temporarily_locked wrote:

That makes sense if you’ve only ever watched other people whip.

And to the contrary, I’ve never met a single rider (until just yesterday) who explains it the way you do. Just a quick search to debunk your “real riders would say this is to the left” I think this guy knows a thing or two about whipping a motorcycle...



I’d actually like to see or hear a rider explaining it in your oddball way!

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10/9/2019 11:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 11:55 AM

aeffertz wrote:

And to the contrary, I’ve never met a single rider (until just yesterday) who explains it the way you do. Just a quick search to debunk your “real riders would say this is to the left” I think this guy knows a thing or two about whipping a motorcycle...



I’d actually like to see or hear a rider explaining it in your oddball way!

In your question you ask which way is HE whipping. Not which way is the bike whipping. When I say I’m whipping to the left that means my body is going down and to the left of the bike. The bike whips to the right. Jarryd even says whip the ‘bike’ to the right.

When I talk with my friends about line choices, it makes more sense to talk about lean then talk about which way the back end goes. That’s why i think of it that way.

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10/9/2019 11:58 AM

Okay so you people think that Roczen is scrubbing to the left here?
Or is the world upside down when we talk about scrubs rather than whips?

Photo

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10/9/2019 11:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 12:03 PM

temporarily_locked wrote:

That makes sense if you’ve only ever watched other people whip.

aeffertz wrote:

And to the contrary, I’ve never met a single rider (until just yesterday) who explains it the way you do. Just a quick search to debunk your “real riders would say this is to the left” I think this guy knows a thing or two about whipping a motorcycle...



I’d actually like to see or hear a rider explaining it in your oddball way!

temporarily_locked wrote:

In your question you ask which way is HE whipping. Not which way is the bike whipping. When I say I’m whipping to the left that means my body is going down and to the left of the bike. The bike whips to the right. Jarryd even says whip the ‘bike’ to the right.

When I talk with my friends about line choices, it makes more sense to talk about lean then talk about which way the back end goes. That’s why i think of it that way.

I was assuming it’s implied which way is he whipping the bike, considering that’s what a whip is. A whip is what the bike does, not what the rider does.

“He whipped it (the bike) to the right”

“He’s whipping (the bike) to the right”

The same way it’s implied “That rider did a backflip” is implying he and the bike did a backflip, not that the rider did a backflip and the bike stayed stationary.

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10/9/2019 12:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 12:11 PM

crusty_xx wrote:

Okay so you people think that Roczen is scrubbing to the left here?
Or is the world upside down when we talk about scrubs rather than whips?

Photo

..

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10/9/2019 12:06 PM

Here's straight from Whip Master McNeil. Guy is whipping to the right. That's how he'd describe it, and that's how I'd call it too (I emcee events from time to time).

Photo

Whip and a scrub are two different things and terminology for them is utilized as such.
- Roczen photo he is scrubbing to the right.
- Original photo in this thread, the guy is whipping to the right.


Definitely the off-season!

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10/9/2019 12:08 PM

aeffertz wrote:

I was assuming it’s implied which way is he whipping the bike, considering that’s what a whip is. A whip is what the bike does, not what the rider does.

“He whipped it (the bike) to the right”

“He’s whipping (the bike) to the right”

The same way it’s implied “That rider did a backflip” is implying he and the bike did a backflip, not that the rider did a backflip and the bike stayed stationary.

And 2/3 of vital think of it your way. Do you get what I’m saying tho? A backflip isn’t comparable.

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10/9/2019 12:12 PM

Alex.434 wrote:

Here's straight from Whip Master McNeil. Guy is whipping to the right. That's how he'd describe it, and that's how I'd call it too (I emcee events from time to time).

Photo

Whip and a scrub are two different things and terminology for them is utilized as such.
- Roczen photo he is scrubbing to the right.
- Original photo in this thread, the guy is whipping to the right.


Definitely the off-season!

So when I do a scrub and I leave the ground, does the scrub turn into a whip? Do I go from scrubbing to the right to suddenly whipping to the left?

I don't quite get it yet laughing

How about this one. Right or left?
Photo

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10/9/2019 12:26 PM

crusty_xx wrote:

So when I do a scrub and I leave the ground, does the scrub turn into a whip? Do I go from scrubbing to the right to suddenly whipping to the left?

I don't quite get it yet laughing

How about this one. Right or left?
Photo

My thoughts exactly. They are a very similar motion and many scrubs look like whips. So in the following pic when the guys are scrubbing the speed traps, the rears kick to whichever side. I would say they are scrubbing right, or a whip to the right (if the bike was layed over the same way). I suppose there is not a correct answer, but to me I can't call a scrub in a certain direction 1 way and a whip in that same direction, the opposite. That just doesn't make sense to me no matter what pro said what. But to each their own, I was just giving input as to why I think the way that I do.

Photo

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10/9/2019 12:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 12:34 PM

Language isn't a perfect science. In fact, language makes for an awful medium of communication at times. Language (words, phrases, terms) do have an overall 'accepted' standard of what's what, which is how we (people) derive meaning from what is said.

Hence why context is so important. The Straight Rhythm picture above, taken out of context, would appear to be two guys whipping to the left. Seen in context though, and knowing what's happening, it is two guys scrubbing to the right.

Not the first, nor last, example of language being inconsistent!

smile

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10/9/2019 12:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 12:40 PM

Alex.434 wrote:

Here's straight from Whip Master McNeil. Guy is whipping to the right. That's how he'd describe it, and that's how I'd call it too (I emcee events from time to time).

Photo

Whip and a scrub are two different things and terminology for them is utilized as such.
- Roczen photo he is scrubbing to the right.
- Original photo in this thread, the guy is whipping to the right.


Definitely the off-season!

Your distinguishing a whip from a scrub literally makes no sense. The bike leans the opposite way yet they're both considered whipping/scrubbing to the right? To use your logic and the logic of many in this thread, Roczen is scrubbing to the left because the back tire goes out to the left. The ending position of the bike relative to the rider is almost same as a whip I.E. before he brings it back/corrects it, he's hanging off the right of the bike and the back end is kicked out to the left.

Photo

Here's the master himself, throwing one of the nastiest scrubs ever. Which way is he scrubbing and why?

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10/9/2019 12:52 PM

"Whipping it" is short for whipping the bike (not whipping the rider). That said, whipping to the right equals whipping the bike to the right. The bike (rear wheel) is whipping out to the right relative to the riders body.

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10/9/2019 12:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 1:22 PM

zehn wrote:

Your distinguishing a whip from a scrub literally makes no sense. The bike leans the opposite way yet they're both considered whipping/scrubbing to the right? To use your logic and the logic of many in this thread, Roczen is scrubbing to the left because the back tire goes out to the left. The ending position of the bike relative to the rider is almost same as a whip I.E. before he brings it back/corrects it, he's hanging off the right of the bike and the back end is kicked out to the left.

Photo

Here's the master himself, throwing one of the nastiest scrubs ever. Which way is he scrubbing and why?

Big difference between a whip and scrub. He scrubbed to the right, which in turn whipped the bike out to the left.

A scrub is what you do on the ground or face of a jump. A whip is what happens once the bike is in the air. Personally, if I had to explain that photo to someone, I was say he scrubbed it out to the left. That lets you know he laid it over on the face to scrub speed and the bike whipped out to the left.

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10/9/2019 12:57 PM

well that's settled then!

I would like to recommend we discuss "on the hole shot" as in, for example, I was third on the hole shot! pinch

pinch pinch

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Never try to argue with idiots; they will only bring you down to their level.....and being more experienced, they will beat you at their own game!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

10/9/2019 12:58 PM

aeffertz wrote:

Big difference between a whip and scrub. He scrubbed to the right, which in turn whipped the bike out to the left.

A scrub is what you do on the ground or face of a jump. A whip is what happens once the bike is in the air. Personally, if I had to explain that photo to someone, I was say he scrubbed it out to the left. That lets you know he laid it over on the face to scrub speed and the bike whipped out to the left.

Okay this is becoming too complex for me now. I'm out.

In my eyes when I have to make a turn to the right on the face of a jump I am whipping or scrubbing or what ever to the right

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10/9/2019 1:09 PM

aeffertz wrote:

Big difference between a whip and scrub. He scrubbed to the right, which in turn whipped the bike out to the left.

A scrub is what you do on the ground or face of a jump. A whip is what happens once the bike is in the air. Personally, if I had to explain that photo to someone, I was say he scrubbed it out to the left. That lets you know he laid it over on the face to scrub speed and the bike whipped out to the left.

Ok I'm done

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10/9/2019 1:18 PM

crusty_xx wrote:

Okay this is becoming too complex for me now. I'm out.

In my eyes when I have to make a turn to the right on the face of a jump I am whipping or scrubbing or what ever to the right

Same. Good talk, boys lol.

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10/9/2019 2:13 PM

I say since motocross was invented in Europe, the FIM should be the body who defines this.

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2 Stroke, Drum Brakes, Finned Cylinders!!!

10/9/2019 2:33 PM

temporarily_locked wrote:

To whip like that the rider has to lean off to the left side. He is whipping to the left. Anyone saying that is to the right can’t whip

You’re a complete retard. Whichever side of your body is pointed to the sky is the direction you whipped. In this case, the right side of the body is upward toward the sky. It’s whipped to the right. And you get the same answer whether you’re in front of him or behind him. End of discussion.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

10/9/2019 2:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2019 2:50 PM

I always considered the direction of your bike going is the way you whip, but I guess it can be confusing for someone who's uneducated since you lean to the left if you whip to the right and vice versa for whipping to the left. I always leaned right and whipped my bike to the left, which was odd considering I'm right handed. It seems like most riders feel more comfortable whipping to the right, but I always felt like I was writing with my left hand when it came to whipping to the right.

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10/9/2019 2:52 PM

Off season strong up in this bitch.

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10/9/2019 2:58 PM

Photo
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10/9/2019 3:12 PM

crusty_xx wrote:

To the left...
To bring it back straight he has to turn it to the right. So he can't be whipping to the right

This is whipping to the right. In the end last piece of the sequence he's whipped like 50° to the right.

Photo

I had this argument before.
And I won it. One of my proudest victories

You're a disgrace to your screen name.

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10/9/2019 3:16 PM

aeffertz wrote: Photo

Need to settle a debate. Not a trick question or trick photo.

In this picture, if you say he's whippin left, you are probably a goon and shouldn't pretend to know Moto.

My wife even knows this. Just asked her. The guy in the original pic is throwing it out to the right.

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10/9/2019 3:32 PM

crusty_xx wrote:

To the left...
To bring it back straight he has to turn it to the right. So he can't be whipping to the right

This is whipping to the right. In the end last piece of the sequence he's whipped like 50° to the right.

Photo

I had this argument before.
And I won it. One of my proudest victories

Meister wrote:

You're a disgrace to your screen name.

ok Meister

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10/9/2019 3:35 PM

You guys brought this up at the perfect time as I've been trying to explain something to my doctor. When I look down at my pecker, the shaft starts to curve to the right.....but when I pee the stream goes to the left. Do I tell my doctor that my schlong is kinked to the right.....or kinked to the left?

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