Were those last generation HRC CR 250's really that good?

JMX82
Posts
1391
Joined
5/9/2013
Location
Hyllykallio FI
Edited Date/Time 12/17/2019 7:19am
After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.
1
|
kage173
Posts
2176
Joined
11/27/2015
Location
TX US
10/6/2019 11:08pm
They were pretty good. But mostly that was Roczen facing inferior talent
23
SoCalMX70
Posts
2824
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
10/6/2019 11:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/6/2019 11:14pm
So many posts of people minimizing rider skill.

Lieb was the only guy that had a significant engine disadvantage in the whole event imo.
5
kage173
Posts
2176
Joined
11/27/2015
Location
TX US
10/6/2019 11:20pm
For what it's worth, Seelys motor was HRC.
2
JMX82
Posts
1391
Joined
5/9/2013
Location
Hyllykallio FI
10/6/2019 11:34pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
So many posts of people minimizing rider skill.

Lieb was the only guy that had a significant engine disadvantage in the whole event imo.
What about Villopoto or Webb? Those guys don't suffer lack of talent either
10

The Shop

davis224
Posts
6250
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
165th
10/7/2019 3:19am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 3:21am
Coming out of retirement, coming off of injury and never riding a 2 stroke since his EARLY mini days. Roczen was sharp. Plus whoops and scrubbing aren't really Webb's strong points.

Edit, forgot to quote previous post
3
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
10/7/2019 3:28am
Think Reed and RC have both said the Yamaha and the Zook - a blue copy - were better
5
10/7/2019 3:39am
CR22 mentioned on DMXS a little while ago they were trying to get a factory RM to the event. Would be good to see all the old works bikes run again.
7
Timo_2824
Posts
553
Joined
12/19/2016
Location
Wichita, KS US
10/7/2019 4:25am
JMX82 wrote:
What about Villopoto or Webb? Those guys don't suffer lack of talent either
Rider Skill: Ryan Sipes said that Kenny is Kenny and he would be happy to just be close. Everyone knew Kenny would be in the final as long as he didn't crash.

Injuries: Webb has been off the bike and RV crashed hard on Friday trying to follow Hansen.

Bike Development: Bikes haven't gotten that much better since the late 90's early 2000's. I'm not any faster on my FX than I would be on my 98 YZ250, just more comfortable and don't have to mess with jets. Yamaha is on the same suspension since 2006, which every other company is now going back to. Kinda like mountain bikes, once you get to a certain point, you gotta change the wheel sizes to get people thinking that they're getting better. "29 is better than 26 because it rolls over obstacles better. What's that, 29 inch wheels flex too much? Well I've got these 27.5 inch wheels that are better than 29's because they flex less..."
Marketing works way better than most want to admit.
22
KX500
Posts
283
Joined
8/30/2018
Location
Chester, IL US
10/7/2019 5:05am
Somewhere in this forum I read that this CR250 was about a $100,000 bike. If this is anywhere close to the truth, then surely that bike was the best out there - by about a 10 to 1 ratio, at least money wise.

So this bike was basically the best Honda could do with a 2 stroke factory motocross bike.

And yes, Roczen was probably the most talented rider in the field.

So best rider, best bike, predictable results.

No doubt that a stock 2020 KTM 250 is better than a stock 2006 Honda CR250.

But was anywhere near as much time, effort & money put into those KTMs as was put into that CR250?

And while I personally don't want to see a manufacturer that no longer makes 2 stokes win RBSR (exceptions for the 500s), it is very cool to see these old 'masterpiece' bikes brought back for a little more usage.

I mean what else are they going to do with them?
1
3
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
10/7/2019 5:21am
Yeah it wasn’t a flat drag race
1
mirramaxx
Posts
887
Joined
12/15/2011
Location
NE US
10/7/2019 5:27am
Cool to see Brandon Hartranft do that well, he was also TQ. It was shocking to see Webb and Villo get knocked out that quick, but hey the sport is good hands right !! Also with Kenny winning, my 02 is that bike and rider meshed well and that was the key to the top step of the podium. I hope like he said in his interview that this will carry over into 2020.

Cheers Vital Village.
1
10/7/2019 6:10am
KX500 wrote:
Somewhere in this forum I read that this CR250 was about a $100,000 bike. If this is anywhere close to the truth, then surely that bike...
Somewhere in this forum I read that this CR250 was about a $100,000 bike. If this is anywhere close to the truth, then surely that bike was the best out there - by about a 10 to 1 ratio, at least money wise.

So this bike was basically the best Honda could do with a 2 stroke factory motocross bike.

And yes, Roczen was probably the most talented rider in the field.

So best rider, best bike, predictable results.

No doubt that a stock 2020 KTM 250 is better than a stock 2006 Honda CR250.

But was anywhere near as much time, effort & money put into those KTMs as was put into that CR250?

And while I personally don't want to see a manufacturer that no longer makes 2 stokes win RBSR (exceptions for the 500s), it is very cool to see these old 'masterpiece' bikes brought back for a little more usage.

I mean what else are they going to do with them?
Money wise, the KTM has had WAY more than $100,000 worth of development since 2006.
3
1
MXVet261
Posts
711
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Valley City, OH US
Fantasy
4061st
10/7/2019 6:13am
Kenny wins Straight Rhythm on a Honda -- people talk about how the bike must be great.

Kenny wins 2016 450 National Championship on a Suzuki -- people talk about how good Kenny is to overcome the bike.
52
H4L
Posts
2499
Joined
3/18/2016
Location
CA US
10/7/2019 7:24am
Yes. Those bikes were & still are that good. People can try to down play it, but the last gen AF CR accomplishments speak for themselves.
5
wide open wally
Posts
541
Joined
1/10/2012
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
Fantasy
3824th
10/7/2019 7:44am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 7:45am
All those 250s were insane in their prime, I remember a big write up in Dirt Bike mag or Racer X on Stews 250, broke down all the cost it was insane. But the late CR’s were not on the same level as the Yamaha and Suzuki’s, as stated before Suzuki just basically copied the YZ engine. And I’d say that Suzuki was the cream of the crop considering Reedy wanted on it so bad for 05 after Yamaha promised the aluminum frame would be better than the steel and wasn’t.
2
1
Sharc
Posts
62
Joined
12/21/2009
Location
OH US
10/7/2019 7:45am
MXVet261 wrote:
Kenny wins Straight Rhythm on a Honda -- people talk about how the bike must be great. Kenny wins 2016 450 National Championship on a Suzuki...
Kenny wins Straight Rhythm on a Honda -- people talk about how the bike must be great.

Kenny wins 2016 450 National Championship on a Suzuki -- people talk about how good Kenny is to overcome the bike.
Shut -up -!
1
14
MXVet261
Posts
711
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Valley City, OH US
Fantasy
4061st
10/7/2019 8:12am
Sharc -- I wonder if Kenny had aftermarket motor mounts on that CR.

Someone needs to give me the FEA analysis of that late generation CR frame and all flex testing reports HRC has before I will think that old Honda was any good....LOL
4
Sharc
Posts
62
Joined
12/21/2009
Location
OH US
10/7/2019 8:21am
MXVet261 wrote:
Sharc -- I wonder if Kenny had aftermarket motor mounts on that CR. Someone needs to give me the FEA analysis of that late generation CR...
Sharc -- I wonder if Kenny had aftermarket motor mounts on that CR.

Someone needs to give me the FEA analysis of that late generation CR frame and all flex testing reports HRC has before I will think that old Honda was any good....LOL
LOL - I was talking with "Uncle Tom Hudak at DaveFest this weekend and he's tried the Ti motor mounts .
Says it's night & day different.
Did the testing twice - same day, same track.
He's a believer.
And - Everyone knows Uncle Tom is a guru.
10/7/2019 8:25am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 8:25am
kage173 wrote:
They were pretty good. But mostly that was Roczen facing inferior talent
Hanny could’ve easily wont the whole thing. Yes, Roczen is INSANELY talented, but calling the competition inferior is disrespectful
8
1
side-pipe
Posts
243
Joined
9/29/2019
Location
Midland, NC US
Fantasy
3300th
10/7/2019 8:25am
Ken won it period. was the bike strong? Hell yes but Hanny also made it to the semi on a Honda.

Had it been an all KTM final then people would say it was the bike.



2
Sharc
Posts
62
Joined
12/21/2009
Location
OH US
10/7/2019 8:25am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 8:26am
At some point Mc and the FEA analysis didn't see eye to eye either .

Show Me the DATA !!!
1
H4L
Posts
2499
Joined
3/18/2016
Location
CA US
10/7/2019 8:29am
Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?
1
MotoX85
Posts
2199
Joined
10/9/2011
Location
Centralia, IL US
10/7/2019 8:33am
JMX82 wrote:
After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what...
After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.
No, they were terrible. I remember thinking I would never ride an aluminum frame Honda ever again. The Yamaha was head and shoulders above all the other bikes and its why they are still being made and are the best after so many years.

That bike won because of the rider that was riding it, plain and simple
lo95co380
Posts
69
Joined
8/29/2016
Location
PA US
10/7/2019 8:43am
H4L wrote:
Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike...
Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?
05 from Carey hart
3
JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
10/7/2019 8:50am
H4L wrote:
Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike...
Anybody have any details on JH100 bike. They didn't say much about the bike other than it was a CR250. It was a 3rd gen. bike, but what yr. ? Engine & suspension modifications ?
It was a 2005 built by the Bills Pipes crew.
Hansen said he called Mike Gosselarr and that’s who he recommended.
2
10/7/2019 8:54am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 8:54am
JMX82 wrote:
After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what...
After watching Roczen winning RBSR on a factory Honda CR250 one must think how good those HRC tuned CR250's actually were. Has anyone inside information what is different inside those HRC engines compared tho stock motor? The bike sounded completely different than the stock CR250 engine.

I remember Ricky Carmichael beating Stefan Everts's works YZ450f riding his CR250 back in 2003 at Zolder MXON race so those bikes must have been plenty fast. Seems to me that Honda had perfected their factory CR250 just before they quit racing it.
MotoX85 wrote:
No, they were terrible. I remember thinking I would never ride an aluminum frame Honda ever again. The Yamaha was head and shoulders above all the...
No, they were terrible. I remember thinking I would never ride an aluminum frame Honda ever again. The Yamaha was head and shoulders above all the other bikes and its why they are still being made and are the best after so many years.

That bike won because of the rider that was riding it, plain and simple
You rode an HRC factory 250 and decided they were terrible?
9
H4L
Posts
2499
Joined
3/18/2016
Location
CA US
10/7/2019 8:54am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2019 9:18am
lo95co380 wrote:
05 from Carey hart
Do you know if it had any engine / suspension mods ? It was good to see a 3rd gen. CR make it to the final qtr. bracket & podium that didn't have an HRC engine or possibly works suspension as well.
H4L
Posts
2499
Joined
3/18/2016
Location
CA US
10/7/2019 8:57am
JWACK wrote:
It was a 2005 built by the Bills Pipes crew.
Hansen said he called Mike Gosselarr and that’s who he recommended.
Thnxz for the info..
beamer
Posts
783
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Squaw River CA
10/7/2019 8:58am
That bike was really sweet but I'm guessing Roczen could have had the same result on the '96 which would have been over the top cool.
2
TallonT911
Posts
560
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
Henderson, NV US
10/7/2019 9:08am
JWACK wrote:
It was a 2005 built by the Bills Pipes crew.
Hansen said he called Mike Gosselarr and that’s who he recommended.
H4L wrote:
Thnxz for the info..
I believe they talked about it on a Swap Moto Live interview, but as JWack said, he talked to goose about whether to use PC or Bills and Goose said to go with Bills. Hanny sounded super impressed with Bills work and the custom cone pipe in the interview I saw.
1

Post a reply to: Were those last generation HRC CR 250's really that good?

The Latest